Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
2D or 3D chip? Regards, Le mercredi 24 janvier 2007 à 19:33 +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz a écrit : On 1/24/07 11:41 AM, kkr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody know more about price and precision of the accelerometers's chips on the market now? About US$3. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On 1/31/07, kkr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another exemple of uses for an accelerometer: magnifier command set (enable only in the context of a picture viewer or web browser application). Look at http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Ideas/3DViewport /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
It's not difficult to understand but I think it's not a very intuitive idea. Ideally future OpenMoko devices would have multitouch which would get us very intuitive zoom and movement along the map. Using an accelerometer to control something is a good idea for the Wii where you have the controller detached from the screen. On a mobile phone you'd always move the screen, too, when you shake it, tilt it or move it. Then it becomes tiring to move around with the screen to keep seeing what's going on. Also, you have to be able to move the screen around to get the best lighting conditions and you have to be able to move the device while walking/driving etc. without it trying to interpret your random movements as controlls. On 1/31/07, kkr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another exemple of uses for an accelerometer: magnifier command set (enable only in the context of a picture viewer or web browser application). You're looking a picture (or a web page), but as you find it too small, and as you want to see more details, you zoom on your picture by simply taking the neo closer to your face: zoom command + (As moving it away from your face is the zoom command minus -) ...unfortunately, when you did it, the part of the picture displayed on the screen is not exactly where you want to see the detail... So, simply move your phone (left/right or up/down), and the windows displayed move proportionally to the deplacement (slow or fast, big or small deplacement). The deplacement in the picture (number of pixels of the movement) is dependent from: - mailman of magnification - amplitude of movement If you move your phone to left for a distance equal to the screen wide, you see the neighbour cell (to the same mailman of magnification). With others words, considere that the phone's screen is as a window on a picture which is bigger (after the zoom) than the phone's screen. So, you move your phone to discover the rest of the picture (adjust the center of the image) -- like with jumelles or magnifier. -- picture to display = Neo'screen size (zoom 1x) ¦ | ¦ | ¦ | ¦ | ¦ |neo'screen|| ¦ -- | /\zoom 4x| --| ¦ |/ \ |\ | ¦/\I\/| \ | ¦ / \ / \ /\ | ¦ /\/\/ \| ¦ /\ | ¦ \ | ¦\ | ¦ \| Sorry for my english... I guess it's probably very hard to understand me... :-( regards, ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:12, Jeff Andros wrote: as I understand it, you can get more value out of the accellerometer than that in the simplest case, we know a gps can be off by a certain percent. say you leave the phone still for a long time, you could average the error and get more precise over time (yeah, there'll be some skew... but we can trust the law of averages to help us out some) now, say you were aware of the motion of the device, you could still account for that motion in the averaging process (A-meter says I've gone 2 feet, gps says I've gone 3... pretty safe to say I'm between those) one of the real weaknesses of the accellerometer(INS) are long-term integration errors, and the biggest weakness of gps is short term precision... put the two together and they complement each other REALLY well. our (US) military has been using this combination for years with really great(horrible?) results... it'd be great to put this to a peaceful use as well -- Jeff O|||O We also need to take into account that accelerometers measure acceleration. If you accelerating or decelerating it will be able to tell you the magnitude of the force and you can time the duration to find the distance traveled. However, suppose that you are moving at a constant velocity, the accelerometer will measure 0 (zero) acceleration. Most true vehicle dead reckoning systems also include a sensor for the vehicle speed, which in combination with gps can provide you with something the accelerometer can't. The ability to know how far you have traveled at a constant or accelerating speed. Anyway, since attaching a sensor to the car may not be possible its a moot point. Just thought I would add a few more cents in. As a side note... In the US and probably other countries there is a standard for the interface to the car computer. From that interface you can get the vehicle speed and diagnostic information about how the engine is running. It might be interesting to have some kind of bluetooth car interface to obtain that information and display it for you while you are in your car. Anyone ever heard of anything like that? --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
We also need to take into account that accelerometers measure acceleration. If you accelerating or decelerating it will be able to tell you the magnitude of the force and you can time the duration to find the distance traveled. However, suppose that you are moving at a constant velocity, the accelerometer will measure 0 (zero) acceleration. Most true vehicle dead reckoning systems also include a sensor for the vehicle speed, which in combination with gps can provide you with something the accelerometer can't. The ability to know how far you have traveled at a constant or accelerating speed. Anyway, since attaching a sensor to the car may not be possible its a moot point. Just thought I would add a few more cents in. As a side note... In the US and probably other countries there is a standard for the interface to the car computer. From that interface you can get the vehicle speed and diagnostic information about how the engine is running. It might be interesting to have some kind of bluetooth car interface to obtain that information and display it for you while you are in your car. Anyone ever heard of anything like that? --Tim yes, accelerometers measure acceleration. The first derivative of acceleration is velocity. Granted errors in the accelerometer compound when deriving velocity, but you've usually got GPS information to calibrate against (As Jeff was saying). A typical dead reckoning system always knows your current velocity, and when GPS goes away, it can apply changes to the velocity by knowing only your current acceleration. The errors associated with this would typically be small enough to not matter during the length of a tunnel or building related GPS blackout. So, an accelerometer (actually, three) is all that is needed for a complete navigation with dead reckoning. An accelerometer could have other nifty applications. Here's a few: Tape measure: walk the unit from one corner of a room to another and see both the x and y (even z) distances. Would be very useful for construction and event production professionals Games: Use the entire device as a steering wheel in a car game, or yoke in a flying game Pedometer: if accurate enough, could count actual steps walked and convert that to calories burned. Or could count paces when following a pirate's treasure map. Subway system: Could tell you where you are, and wake you up or alert you when riding the subway. (Since no one can usually understand the announcements) --Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 9:12, Steven Milburn wrote: yes, accelerometers measure acceleration. The first derivative of acceleration is velocity. Granted errors in the accelerometer compound when deriving velocity, but you've usually got GPS information to calibrate against (As Jeff was saying). A typical dead reckoning system always knows your current velocity, and when GPS goes away, it can apply changes to the velocity by knowing only your current acceleration. The errors associated with this would typically be small enough to not matter during the length of a tunnel or building related GPS blackout. So, an accelerometer (actually, three) is all that is needed for a complete navigation with dead reckoning. snip --Steve Ok Steve. I grant you that the first derivative of acceleration is velocity... How do you propose to gain any velocity information when the acceleration measured is zero as would be the case if you are at a constant velocity? This is why I am saying you would need some better source for velocity. I grant you that the times when a car is at a constant velocity may be few... Or it may be that when on cruise control on any flat road you may actually see zero or almost zero acceleration. OTOH, detecting the direction that a person turned with the accelerometer may be very useful in dead reckoning. --Tim --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 09:41 -0800, Tim Newsom wrote: Ok Steve. I grant you that the first derivative of acceleration is velocity... How do you propose to gain any velocity information when the acceleration measured is zero as would be the case if you are at a constant velocity? This is why I am saying you would need some better source for velocity. I grant you that the times when a car is at a constant velocity may be few... Or it may be that when on cruise control on any flat road you may actually see zero or almost zero acceleration. I probably shouldn't engage this thread since most of it is academic till official word is made regarding accelerometers, but what the heck? Theoretically, if one tells the device to assume the velocity at a given point in time is zero, then by carefully tracking the acceleration at various points in time, you can determine the velocity vector at present. The accuracy will be limited by how accurate the accelerometer is, the orientation of the device as well as the sampling rate, but with the lack of a connection between the car's information bus (CAN), it's one option. AGPS can also help determine velocity prior to entering the tunnel (which could be a good starting point for determining velocity based on differentials). -- Richi ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On Friday 26 January 2007 18:41:50 Tim Newsom wrote: yes, accelerometers measure acceleration. The first derivative of acceleration is velocity. Ok Steve. I grant you that the first derivative of acceleration is velocity... I don't think so. The first derivative of VELOCITY is acceleration (i.e. integrate acceleration to get velocity as acceleration is the rate of change of velocity) if my high school physics doesn't totally fail me right now. This also means that if acceleration is zero, velocity simply is constant. And in order to have velocity 0 you must have encountered some acceleration at some point. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
Tim Newsom wrote: Ok Steve. I grant you that the first derivative of acceleration is velocity... How do you propose to gain any velocity information when the acceleration measured is zero as would be the case if you are at a constant velocity? This is why I am saying you would need some better source for velocity. I grant you that the times when a car is at a constant velocity may be few... Or it may be that when on cruise control on any flat road you may actually see zero or almost zero acceleration. OTOH, detecting the direction that a person turned with the accelerometer may be very useful in dead reckoning. --Tim Math. The acceleration to 50 kilometers per hour then staying at that speed produced an acceleration vector in a given direction. Until there are mathematically equal opposing deceleration(s), you have a known velocity and vector. It's all in the math :) Zero acceleration only means your current velocity and vector are constant. -david ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
- Forwarded message -- From: Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:13:49 +0100 Subject: Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer On Friday 26 January 2007 18:41:50 Tim Newsom wrote: yes, accelerometers measure acceleration. The first derivative of acceleration is velocity. Ok Steve. I grant you that the first derivative of acceleration is velocity... I don't think so. The first derivative of VELOCITY is acceleration (i.e. integrate acceleration to get velocity as acceleration is the rate of change of velocity) if my high school physics doesn't totally fail me right now. This also means that if acceleration is zero, velocity simply is constant. And in order to have velocity 0 you must have encountered some acceleration at some point. Wow, I can't believe I got that backwards, thanks for the correction. Kind of embarrassing considering I actually work on this stuff. However, it doesn't invalidate that you don't need any more information than the accelerometer and a starting point in order to track velocity and position. I'm going to go work on removing the foot I shoved so far into my mouth earlier. --Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
Steven Milburn wrote: Wow, I can't believe I got that backwards, thanks for the correction. Kind of embarrassing considering I actually work on this stuff. However, it doesn't invalidate that you don't need any more information than the accelerometer and a starting point in order to track velocity and position. I'm going to go work on removing the foot I shoved so far into my mouth earlier. --Steve Hmm, I think if you always know your starting position, vector and velocity, then you will always know where you are. (100% accuracy implied). Acceleration is just an adjustment to your current vector and velocity. -david ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:18, Steven Milburn wrote: Wow, I can't believe I got that backwards, thanks for the correction. Kind of embarrassing considering I actually work on this stuff. However, it doesn't invalidate that you don't need any more information than the accelerometer and a starting point in order to track velocity and position. I'm going to go work on removing the foot I shoved so far into my mouth earlier. --Steve Ahh its been years since I did any of that in highschool, but I remembered it like you said it. Though now I think I should go back and review it. Lol. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Just for walkers... Re: Yes it will have vibra alarm Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
ha ha, I did mean to send it to the list... thanks! On 1/26/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Salve Jeff! Was it your intention to answer me private and not to the list, too? Don't get me to seriously, my English is not perfect, so I'm not good in making jokes in English :)) your english was good enough for me to get the joke, I was just trying to take it a little further(maybe too far) :-) no worries On 1/25/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and the vibra allows to give some feedback to the user by using the touchscreen and diffrent vibra would help to use it for navigation while it is in the pocket like: w ww wwr wrr (turn right) wrr wrr wrrr wrrr wrrr wrrr (turn left) w (turn back) and wr wr wr wr wr wr wr wr wr means you're driving into a river/off a cliff!! seriously though, it'd have to be a heck of a motor for me to feel it while driving, but I really like the concept... it's hard to hear instructions with the top down on the freeway Let me allow to kidding you - you are in the US, right? yeah, it's the jeep thing that gives it away, huh? Outside of the US people could thing to use a navigation even without a car, just while walking... SCNR - real sorry... :) don't be sorry... I'd rather know when I make a fool of myself, so that I can stop, or at least learn from it... and I'd only kind of thought about using it for walking... you'd have to make sure wherever you put it wasn't in loose clothes, and most of the time when I'm walking I either have enough time to wander and take in everything as well as find where I'm going... or I know right where I'm going so it wouldn't matter (if you've always got a gps, how are you supposed to get lost and find cool things?) the other thing I was thinking of, is what about mounting this to the handlebars of my bike... if the vibration motor was strong enough, I could navigate longer courses without taking my eyes off the road Walking cross a city with a navigation - I know somebody who loves to hold it in his hand to try to attrack laydies but I would prefer to have it hidden in my pocket. maybe colored arrows to tell you which way to turn (green=right red=left intensity tells you how far to go) that way you can glance to see the color nono, it was just additional use, not the general way of navigaion... The funny thing of AGPS compard than with normal GPS receiver, it will working even in your pocket - that was my intention to stress with to use it for navigation while it is in the pocket or it should work inside malls too, I can't tell you how many time's I've gotten lost in even smaller ones... and a busy crowded mall isn't my idea of a place to get lost in(if you live in a country without these monstrosities, count your blessings) if we could map out the stores, or at least their entrances, I could get in, get my stuff and get out so much faster. also, for the devs, how is the screen in the sun? does it fade much? I hope not to much... Cheers, rob Thanks for the tip, I'm forwarding it on to everyone now! -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 20:00 +0100, Ortwin Regel wrote: The only situation where I can see the accelerometer being really useful is where Apple is using it: For changing the screen orientation of things according to how you hold the phone. An accelerometer is a nice to have for navigation too. When losing the GPS signal, i.e. in a tunnel, you can go on doing dead reckoning. And it helps to get the vector map data coordinated with the GPS position. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
2007/1/25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Great stuff to impress the ladies! ;) Please refrain from making any comments of a sexist or sexual orientation nature. Am I allowed to reveal my gender? I'm affraid it can be offensive, too... -- Tomek Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On 1/25/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please refrain from making any comments of a sexist or sexual orientation nature. What exactly would be of a sexual orientation nature. He's not saying that you have to impress ladies. You could impress men, little children, cats, dogs, goats, or even your neighbors Venus fly trap that you've been lusting over for the past few decades. He mocked no one, nor did he force his views on others. He didn't say that you could only use it to impress ladies he simply suggest a use for anyone whom considers them self a man and is attracted to women, or for women who are interested in other women. He didn't say anything that could possibly be seen as offensive, he only made a suggestion, he made no statement about sexual orientation, nor did he make perverse sexual comments. And impressing does not always mean in a sexual way as you seem to have taken it, I can impress my co-workers with my wit and that gains me respect, and anyone can do that. Please relax and think about what you saying and realize that he was not being hurtful mean or degrading and that you should leave him alone. Thank you. Bryce Leo **I will clarify for Michael Shiloh and all other parties that you (in the first paragraph of my response) in this case refers to a general you and not you as in Michael Shiloh whom I'm responding to. This clarification should not be necessary however due to his thinking that the saying impress the ladies is demeaning, degrading or generally bad is what causes me to express this distinction. And Ortwin I think you're completely right that would be awesome. And feel free to ignore Michael Shiloh, you did nothing wrong. Just continue to be respectful and genuine and you'll be ok. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On 1/24/07 11:41 AM, kkr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody know more about price and precision of the accelerometers's chips on the market now? About US$3. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On Wednesday 24 January 2007 12:33, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On 1/24/07 11:41 AM, kkr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody know more about price and precision of the accelerometers's chips on the market now? About US$3. Are they good enough to twice integrate the acceleration data (which obviously puts quite some demand onto accuracy) to get a better estimate of where a car would be after entering a tunnel? If so, there's your killer app. pgphczV4hXBfu.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
Hi! On 1/24/07, kkr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Le mardi 23 janvier 2007 à 22:15 -0400, Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa a écrit : Hi! Too much trouble.. the phone could get confused when you walk/run/jump, or when you are in a car/bus. Perhaps, can we use it as a command sets in a context dependent comportement. For exemple, we use it only if we are in a game or if the phone is ringing... If the command were shake to phone to answer, I could accidentally answer the phone while I play with my kids!. But yes, for a game it is REALLY good, just imagine a car racing, in which you move the phone to turn the car. You could also use the accelerometer to make the phone became a laptop usb mouse, but which doesn't require a surface to work. I have been studying accelerometers from Analog Devices, and Freescale for some time now (yes, they use to give samples!). Answering another mail: You don't need 3 accelerometers to do that - 1 is sufficient. Gravity is down, so you can usually use that to detect orientation of the device (landscape, upright, upside-down). It would also allow you to measure rotations of the device about axes (spinning/shaking). In fact, you would require at least two in order to detect rotation speed, and be able to convert the system into a real blind navigation system. Just think about it, when you launch something, it just pass by a point where it doesn't feel gravity (zero-gravity point), and at that point the devices wouldn't know if it rotated or not now, where does that can happend: and airplane, or just when you are running. Very interesting topic, Ildefonso Camargo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On 1/24/07, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 24 January 2007 12:33, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On 1/24/07 11:41 AM, kkr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody know more about price and precision of the accelerometers's chips on the market now? About US$3. Are they good enough to twice integrate the acceleration data (which obviously puts quite some demand onto accuracy) to get a better estimate of where a car would be after entering a tunnel? If so, there's your killer app. Here: http://www.analog.com/en/subCat/0,2879,764%255F800%255F0%255F%255F0%255F,00.html and here: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=01126911184209 Yes, they are. You just need a fast enough sampling rate the problem is: how fast, and the other problem: filter out gravity in order to avoid integrating it. Thus, you need to follow gravity, or high-pass filter the thing, and you will lose ALL constant accelerations. Another issue is the fast acceleration scenarios, where your accelerometer would be saturated, and you could need a less-precise, higher-acceleration accelerometer in order to still know where are you moving. I have been working on a device like this (blind navigation system, please don't steal the idea, if you wanna work in something like that, we could work together, I just want it to be free)... just for fun. If, someday, I finish it, I'll post it somewhere for everybody to build it and use it!. c-ya! Ildefonso Camargo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
Salve Jose! Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 08:44h: For exemple, we use it only if we are in a game or if the phone is ringing... If the command were shake to phone to answer, I could accidentally answer the phone while I play with my kids! Consider that it will be possible to use a special, typical movement to answer the call - not just an uncontrolled shaking. We had already several ideas for using such a sensor on the list like this thread: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000151.html But much more would be possible - so please go on with spreading ideas :) I hope v1 will have solder points to add a sensor myself or that all our nice ideas confince Sean/FIC/OpenMoko team that the v2 must have sensors ;))) And consider that many new things become possible with sensors and software - so forget a simple shaking ;) BTW: I'd like to use a accelerometer or clinometer to look and unlook the touchscreen. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
Hi! On 1/24/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Salve Jose! Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 08:44h: For exemple, we use it only if we are in a game or if the phone is ringing... If the command were shake to phone to answer, I could accidentally answer the phone while I play with my kids! Consider that it will be possible to use a special, typical movement to answer the call - not just an uncontrolled shaking. It is a matter of taste. I don't like the idea, because I think it is faster and easier to answer just by pushing a button (or button sequence, if you like). And the typical movement will be hard to detect under moving situations (bus, subway, walk, run, in a car). We had already several ideas for using such a sensor on the list like this thread: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000151.html But much more would be possible - so please go on with spreading ideas :) I hope v1 will have solder points to add a sensor myself or that all our nice ideas confince Sean/FIC/OpenMoko team that the v2 must have sensors ;))) Great ideas!, I just saw them. The smoke sensor can be made, freescale sell some really small of these. And a mesh of these devices, or a radio beacon could be useful to locate people when they are out of the coverage area. And consider that many new things become possible with sensors and software - so forget a simple shaking ;) The more complicated it is, the harder to make it work under moving situations: say, when you are in the bus. See, How can I make the phone to be steady for 3 seconds if I'm in the bus?, I just can't. Even as a game controller, it would be a problem, but it would me more usuable. Anyway, I don't like the idea, but other people may like it, and if you have the SDK, and API access to the accelerometer outputs, then you can implement it and use it!. BTW: I'd like to use a accelerometer or clinometer to look and unlook the touchscreen. It can be done, you just need to filter-out the disturbances. c-ya! Ildefonso. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
I think it's a fantastic idea too. The motion of putting a phone in your pocket could likely be specific enough to train the phone to turn off. Or it could identify when it is floating loose vs. being held to your ear, to automatically lock. Another application would be monitoring a kids use of their car, combined with the GPS you could guarantee they're driving well! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Collins Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 11:05 PM To: kkr; community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: RE: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer Do a google on Sensiva or check out my blog at www.collins.net.pr/blog Specifically http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2005/10/sensiva.html and http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2006/03/neat-ui.html You could build some very cool application control in with a good accelerometer, flick your mobile to the left to delete the window you are in or to the right to send a call to voicemail etc. I use the google question mark command on sensiva about 200 times a day and love it. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +1-917-207-3420 Mb +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kkr Sent: Tuesday, 23 January 2007 10:42 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer I think the idea is good! But why only one? With one 3-axis accelerometer, we detect a move in the space XYZ: We move our arm. If we use 3 3-axis accelerometer (one in each angle of a triangle), we can detect more movements: We can detect if the neo turn over himself (with no global XYZ move). For exemple, we can detect too, movements as: 1. a rotation of the hand 2. waves with the hand (not like hello, but more as approximately) ... Does anybody know more about price and precision of the accelerometers's chips on the market now? Regards, Le mercredi 24 janvier 2007 à 12:50 +1100, Tehn Yit Chin a écrit : Not too sure how doable this is, but how about having a 3axis accelerometer in the 2nd generation of the Neo? This will give us the ability to link hand movements as command sets, sort of like mouse gestures but in a 3d space. The obvious usage is for 3d gestures command the phone, eg shake the phone three times to answer when a calls comes in, or move the phone in a cross motion to put it into do not disturb mode. cheers, tyc ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: On Wednesday 24 January 2007 12:33, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On 1/24/07 11:41 AM, kkr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody know more about price and precision of the accelerometers's chips on the market now? About US$3. Are they good enough to twice integrate the acceleration data (which obviously puts quite some demand onto accuracy) to get a better estimate of where a car would be after entering a tunnel? If so, there's your killer app. I have a device that uses an accelerometer to measure 0-60 times, and quarter mile times in the car. You find a deserted piece of road, stick the thing to the windshield and get it level, then go. It senses when you have reached the quarter mile, or you've reached 60 mph and notes the time. Much cheaper than a drag strip, good for people who hot rod their cars and want to measure the difference in performance. With the openmoko phone you could add a data logging feature to gather G force data throughout a drag strip or autocross run, in addition to calculating the time. Another use would be as a game controller, either with a game in the phone, or transmitting the motion data over bluetooth to use with a PC game. It would be ideal to have a 3 axis accelerometer and a 3 axis tilt sensor like the wii. Apparently the wii controller uses an IR sensor to keep itself oriented relative to the game console; since the phone doesn't have IR this wouldn't be possible. But then again it doesn't have accelerometers either at this point. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
For GeoPointing to work right, you would also need an electronic compass module in the phone Right? Cause accelerometers don't know which direction your pointing and gps isn't probably accurate enough to derive what you pointed at when you moved it maybe 2 or 3 feet during the gesture. With the compass module you would have Gps location + orientation + direction means what is that building? Then depending on the orientation you could have the phone limit distance.. Say face up is 100 feet. Face left is in 500 feet. Face down is 1 mile... Etc. Then have it return the name of the first known object that is on the ray extending from your location in that direction with in the defined distance. /shrug Now, pair the accelerometer w/ GPS and you have GeoPointing. What is that building over *there*? Sure people do that already (http://geovector.com/), but not on O/S platforms. ;) --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On Wednesday 24 January 2007 17:04, Tim Newsom wrote: For GeoPointing to work right, you would also need an electronic compass module in the phone I think that's actually the only thing you really need for it to work. Not sure how an accelerometer would help figuring out what direction the phone has? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On 1/24/07, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 24 January 2007 17:04, Tim Newsom wrote: For GeoPointing to work right, you would also need an electronic compass module in the phone I think that's actually the only thing you really need for it to work. Not sure how an accelerometer would help figuring out what direction the phone has? The accelerometer can allow you to know what directions the phone went, and 3d orientation (rotations and stuff). The compass, would just be for calibration, because you can trust them all them time (just put a compass above an long iron piece, and you will see it move from the original direction). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On Wednesday 24 January 2007 17:55, Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa wrote: The accelerometer can allow you to know what directions the phone went, and 3d orientation (rotations and stuff). The compass, would just be for calibration, because you can trust them all them time (just put a compass above an long iron piece, and you will see it move from the original direction). But without having a point of reference, knowing what direction you went is not really useful... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On 1/24/07, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be ideal to have a 3 axis accelerometer and a 3 axis tilt sensor like the wii. Apparently the wii controller uses an IR sensor to keep itself oriented relative to the game console; since the phone doesn't have IR this wouldn't be possible. But then again it doesn't have accelerometers either at this point. The wiimote uses only the one accelerometer. Once you factor in that gravity is always down you can use it as a tilt sensor as well. The IR sensor was added for accurate screen pointing as very hard movements exceed the limit of the accelerometer and it does not have enough resolution anyway. Also note the IR camera and accelerometer are $3/ea. This is why Nintendo was ok with using Bluetooth w/o special encryption measures - it has a huge profit margin anyway! - Chad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
Yeah.. I was using the accelerometer in my example to tell the program what the phone orientation was so that you could limit distance without having to touch the interface. If you had it set up to run from a free external button, you could push it And orient the phone and point and the phone could vibrate a little when it found the answer. Then you can look at the face to see what it was. On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 9:27, Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: On Wednesday 24 January 2007 17:04, Tim Newsom wrote: For GeoPointing to work right, you would also need an electronic compass module in the phone I think that's actually the only thing you really need for it to work. Not sure how an accelerometer would help figuring out what direction the phone has? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
Hi! Too much trouble.. the phone could get confused when you walk/run/jump, or when you are in a car/bus. But guess what: it could be an excellent excersize partner, by measuring an approximation of your walk. I could also suggest adding temperature/HR sensor (really good, from sensirion, I use them a lot), and, off course, a pressure sensor for atmosferic pressure, and it is cheap as well. but I think that it would make the phone my geek thing, and these features are not really a plus for most people. too bad :( ... anyway, I'll just build my everything measurer :P, I know I can :) . I will add every sensor I can get for free (samples). Hope this helps, Ildefonso Camargo On 1/23/07, Tehn Yit Chin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not too sure how doable this is, but how about having a 3axis accelerometer in the 2nd generation of the Neo? This will give us the ability to link hand movements as command sets, sort of like mouse gestures but in a 3d space. The obvious usage is for 3d gestures command the phone, eg shake the phone three times to answer when a calls comes in, or move the phone in a cross motion to put it into do not disturb mode. cheers, tyc ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
I think the idea is good! But why only one? With one 3-axis accelerometer, we detect a move in the space XYZ: We move our arm. If we use 3 3-axis accelerometer (one in each angle of a triangle), we can detect more movements: We can detect if the neo turn over himself (with no global XYZ move). For exemple, we can detect too, movements as: 1. a rotation of the hand 2. waves with the hand (not like hello, but more as approximately) ... Does anybody know more about price and precision of the accelerometers's chips on the market now? Regards, Le mercredi 24 janvier 2007 à 12:50 +1100, Tehn Yit Chin a écrit : Not too sure how doable this is, but how about having a 3axis accelerometer in the 2nd generation of the Neo? This will give us the ability to link hand movements as command sets, sort of like mouse gestures but in a 3d space. The obvious usage is for 3d gestures command the phone, eg shake the phone three times to answer when a calls comes in, or move the phone in a cross motion to put it into do not disturb mode. cheers, tyc ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On 1/23/07, kkr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the idea is good! But why only one? With one 3-axis accelerometer, we detect a move in the space XYZ: We move our arm. If we use 3 3-axis accelerometer (one in each angle of a triangle), we can detect more movements: We can detect if the neo turn over himself (with no global XYZ move). You don't need 3 accelerometers to do that - 1 is sufficient. Gravity is down, so you can usually use that to detect orientation of the device (landscape, upright, upside-down). It would also allow you to measure rotations of the device about axes (spinning/shaking). For an idea of how small inexpensive accelerometers are, see this COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) one from a hobby company: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=730 $10.95 - that's for a single unit, not in bulk. There's a reason it's started showing up in devices. Now, pair the accelerometer w/ GPS and you have GeoPointing. What is that building over *there*? Sure people do that already (http://geovector.com/), but not on O/S platforms. ;) Andrew For exemple, we can detect too, movements as: 1. a rotation of the hand 2. waves with the hand (not like hello, but more as approximately) ... Does anybody know more about price and precision of the accelerometers's chips on the market now? Regards, Le mercredi 24 janvier 2007 à 12:50 +1100, Tehn Yit Chin a écrit : Not too sure how doable this is, but how about having a 3axis accelerometer in the 2nd generation of the Neo? This will give us the ability to link hand movements as command sets, sort of like mouse gestures but in a 3d space. The obvious usage is for 3d gestures command the phone, eg shake the phone three times to answer when a calls comes in, or move the phone in a cross motion to put it into do not disturb mode. cheers, tyc ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Andrew Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
