Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On 8 Nov 2007, at 21:22, Robin Paulson wrote: ... i know it's got a gps and can e-mail/text us where it is, but that will only work if someone doesn't re-flash it and has other caveats on it working. ... I'd guess that only 1% of the population knows what a Neo looks like, or would even have the skill to reflash after learning about the Neo via Google. I think it's reaching to suggest that your Neo's going to fall into the hands of a crook who happens to be in that 1% of the population. From all the headlines we see on Slashdot / Reddit / wherever about thieves uploading photos from the webcam of a stolen laptop onto the owner's Flikr account, I'd be quite confident of a stolen piece of tech being used as-is at least for a number of days, until it reaches someone with the clues to push the factory-reset button. With a device like the Neo the biggest issue with automated I'm here messages is the risk of the battery running flat 7 the thief being unable to acquire a suitable charger. Stroller. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Nov 9, 2007 7:34 AM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a device like the Neo the biggest issue with automated I'm here messages is the risk of the battery running flat 7 the thief being unable to acquire a suitable charger. Stroller. The way I see it, this isn't an issue if you have to ping the phone for it to respond. Here is my example scenario: I find out that my phone is lost. I text it with a magic gps keyword/phrase and it responds with its position. As I will most likely be using my email account to send thru the carrier's sms gateway, the phone will autoformat the reply as a google maps url for ease of clicking. I look and find that my phone is somewhere ive never been so i know its stolen and not lost in my room. At this point i send another keyword/phrase to tell it that its stolen. The phone will then automatically lock down into a mode where its still usable as a phone, so that the thief doesnt get any weird ideas of just turning it off and throwing it somewhere cos he cant use it, maybe let him call a few friends, but there will be NO access to the normal phonebook, certain apps will be disabled/no longer show up, and any attempts of texting would silently be forwarded to me along with their recipient. Keep the thief thinking he has a new toy for himself. From here I could call the police and have them talk to the thief. I'd provide them turn by turn directions. ;) Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Friday 09 November 2007 17:14, Mike Hodson wrote: On Nov 9, 2007 7:34 AM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a device like the Neo the biggest issue with automated I'm here messages is the risk of the battery running flat 7 the thief being unable to acquire a suitable charger. Stroller. The way I see it, this isn't an issue if you have to ping the phone for it to respond. Here is my example scenario: I find out that my phone is lost. I text it with a magic gps keyword/phrase and it responds with its position. Which will only work when the thief is friendly enough to turn the phone on with the same sim-card installed, otherwise, what number would you text to? I'm guessing most GSM thiefs are smart enough to remove the SIM first. This does lead to another intresting angle, you could make the phone send it's location when the SIM card is changed. I doubt you will drain the battery very fast when you only send a location every 10 minutes or so. That should not make a huge difference on battery consumption, but be enough to retrieve it. AVee -- You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Nov 9, 2007 9:38 AM, AVee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which will only work when the thief is friendly enough to turn the phone on with the same sim-card installed, otherwise, what number would you text to? I'm guessing most GSM thiefs are smart enough to remove the SIM first. You don't know the common street person. Atleast here in the USA where GSM is a bit of a nonstandard. I worked at Radio Shack for 4 years, and the majority of the customerbase I sold them to really had no clue about how gsm worked or what the card was for. Some enterprising people might, but thats covered by the next bit This does lead to another intresting angle, you could make the phone send it's location when the SIM card is changed. I doubt you will drain the battery very fast when you only send a location every 10 minutes or so. That should not make a huge difference on battery consumption, but be enough to retrieve it. Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On 9 Nov 2007, at 18:45, Mike Hodson wrote: ... Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. Of course this begs the question* - what if they DON'T change the SIM card? Some suggestions were made last month: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-October/011001.html I can't remember all the details, but I think the conclusion was that anti-theft systems should be possible. Stroller. * Common usage of begs the question - no semantics flamewars, please. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be worried about false alarms. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Then I send a special SMS which switches the Neo to stolen mode :) 2007/11/9, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 9 Nov 2007, at 18:45, Mike Hodson wrote: ... Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. Of course this begs the question* - what if they DON'T change the SIM card? Some suggestions were made last month: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-October/011001.html I can't remember all the details, but I think the conclusion was that anti-theft systems should be possible. Stroller. * Common usage of begs the question - no semantics flamewars, please. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- http://www.gnuffy.org - Real Community Distro http://www.gnuffy.org/index.php/GnuEm - Gnuffy on Ipaq (Codename Peggy) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. Here's an idea. Let's say that the phone keeps a complete history of it's movement in space and time (or spacetime, if you like). Let's say we set it to check it's position every minute or so (is this viable, with respect to the battery capacity)? Let's say we set it it to send it's position on every significant change of direction (i.e. taking a turn), but only when it moves to coordinates it hasn't moved to before. This data push might be in batch to conserve power/bandwidth, sending info every 20 minutes or so. This seems wasteful (battery-wise), but I suspect a great many people travel the same 200 km 99% of the time so the phone would simply not send anything most of the time. Effects? While you're using your phone, you're building something that could become an openstreetmap map of your movements which is very commendable. Good for you! :) When you're phone is stolen - and the above behavior is made SIM-independent - you get regular tips on where your phone is and how it got there. The only thing a thief could do is sabotage/overwrite the program...or to keep moving. :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Nov 9, 2007 1:24 PM, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be worried about false alarms. This is based upon my habits: this would be a one-carrier phone with no reason to switch it in my day-to-day use. For me, if the card changed, I wouldnt be the one doing it. And if I were, well, i know I made my phone act this way :) This is simply my personal idea that I will make happen. Not part of the mainline code. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Nov 9, 2007 3:36 PM, Tomi N/A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's an idea. Let's say that the phone keeps a complete history of it's movement in space and time (or spacetime, if you like). ... When you're phone is stolen - and the above behavior is made SIM-independent - you get regular tips on where your phone is and how it got there. The only thing a thief could do is sabotage/overwrite the program...or to keep moving. :) This is yet another great idea. One consideration with regard to power: I'm not entirely sure how much network traffic my 2 year old CDMA LG from Sprint uses while doing this sort of positional mapping (I use the Allsport GPS program while I bikeride actually, works rather nicely and gives gmaps as output) but assuming only 1 network ping to get ephemeris data, the phone dies after about 6 hours. I've estimated its position fixing to be about once every 2-3 seconds. To be considered, however, is that while in a java applet my phone never turns off the display; it only dims. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Friday 09 November 2007 21:24, Ian Darwin wrote: Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be worried about false alarms. Well, it should provide some way of switching sim-cards anyway and even I wouldn't want to see it enabled by default. But when that is covered, I don't know why it couldn't be a part of the base system. It this kind of stuff which sets OpenMoko apart from an 'normal' smartphone. But I do agree there it should be handled properly, otherwise it will become useless in practice. AVee -- Do not believe in miracles -- rely on them. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:24:25 -0500 Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be worried about false alarms. turn off sim-change-alarm change sim turn on sim-change-alarm (if you never want it, never turn it on in the first place) of course i assume you can turn it off. the idea being a thief doesn't know this phone and all its intricate settings (maybe you need a pin number to turn it on/off to make sure the thief can't just read the manual first then turn it off. doesn't stop reflashing - but let's assume the thief isn't that high-tech yet). maybe you can register sims? put in a new sim and a dialog comes up new unregistered sim? register? (and then enter your pin # to register. if you don't the sim is accepted but the phone goes into silent alarm mode). in the end - this is what an open phone is all about. all of you are discussing solutions and various attacks that may or may not work for you to secure your phone in the event of loss. in the end you can write whatever works for you and put it on! :) OpenMoko is not going to even think of stopping you :) We're going to give a helping hand. :) -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
i'm going to lose my neo....
i know i will, it's a certainty. i lost a phone 2 weeks ago and another in June i know it's got a gps and can e-mail/text us where it is, but that will only work if someone doesn't re-flash it and has other caveats on it working. Besides, I'd rather it not get that far away from me, i want to know as soon as i get off my seat on the train, that I've left it behind what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? of course, this tech could be applied to any object that a person could lose ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
there was another one... it was a pair of little metal boxes... you stuck one to the object... the other one would sound an alarm if you walked away On 11/8/07, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Andros wrote: Thinkgeek used to sell something like this, but I couldn't find it on their site... look around, they're out there It was a USB dongle to lock your PC if you moved outside a certain range, if I recall. I remember seeing it too at one point, but the software for the gadget was Windows-only. -id ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Thursday 08 November 2007 23:45, andy selby wrote: what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget that aswell You could turn that around i guess, program the neo to make a lot of noise when it looses the paired device. I guess you stand a good chance of still being within hearing distance. Another option would be to buy one of these personal GSM jammers and program the Neo to make a noise when it finds a network. But that approach might have some disadvantages ;-) AVee -- Everyone is entitled to my opinion. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Jeff Andros wrote: Thinkgeek used to sell something like this, but I couldn't find it on their site... look around, they're out there It was a USB dongle to lock your PC if you moved outside a certain range, if I recall. I remember seeing it too at one point, but the software for the gadget was Windows-only. -id ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Friday 09 November 2007 00:15:09 AVee wrote: On Thursday 08 November 2007 23:45, andy selby wrote: what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget that aswell You could turn that around i guess, program the neo to make a lot of noise when it looses the paired device. I guess you stand a good chance of still being within hearing distance. thats basically the approach that sonyericsson took with their bluetooth watch. if said watch lost contact with the phone, it would vibrate to tell the wearer about it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget that aswell it doesn't have to be any fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice Failing that, why don't you try the simple technology called the lanyard and carrying pouch that came with the neo. Since my neo sometimes doesn't register the sim card and has crap battery life (thanks qtopia) it sits on my desk. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On 11/8/07, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice Thinkgeek used to sell something like this, but I couldn't find it on their site... look around, they're out there -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
My idea was an application to : when you lost your Neo, send a special SMS with the cellular phone of a friend, to your Neo. The goal is that the Neo will answer the coordinates X and Y with GPS. Maybe in the future transform coordinates to an real adress... 2007/11/8, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: i know i will, it's a certainty. i lost a phone 2 weeks ago and another in June i know it's got a gps and can e-mail/text us where it is, but that will only work if someone doesn't re-flash it and has other caveats on it working. Besides, I'd rather it not get that far away from me, i want to know as soon as i get off my seat on the train, that I've left it behind what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? of course, this tech could be applied to any object that a person could lose ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Florent Delvaille ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Moin, Am Fri, 9 Nov 2007 10:22:24 +1300 schrieb Robin Paulson: ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? It should be possible to get http://www.openbeacon.org/ to do just that. The tags can talk to each other or to a base station. You should be able to program two tags to ping each other in regular intervals and then make themselves noticeable when they lose contact. (There are two I/O pins that could be connected to an external piezo buzzer or vibrator.) In principle it should even be possible to fit one of the tags into the Neo, though that might require a new tag PCB design. I think roh already had dreamed about something like that some time before (in a different context). The radio transceiver used by OpenBeacon operates in the 2.4GHz band, but does not follow any particular standard (e.g. no Bluetooth, no Wifi). But it's small and very low power. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
I don't see why you don't do this with bluetooth. If you have a headset that you will always have in your bag or on your person (ie. it doesn't get left behind with your phone if you leave) you can run this script on your Neo. You just have it constantly pinging the headset and testing the rssi of the connection. When it goes below a point, have it play a siren ring tone. http://www.goitexpert.com/entry.cfm?entry=Use-Your-Bluetooth-Cell-Phone-as-a-Proximity-Card-for-your-Laptop It seems to work for me. For my phone/dongle combination, I would probably set the distance at a 0 or a -5 for the minimum RSSI before making a siren noise. For the script in the link, you would not have anything for NEAR_CMD and FAR_CMD=mpg123 siren.mp3 for example. Does this sound feasible? It could give you an excuse to get a bluetooth headset :-). Of course ,then again, if your headset runs out of batteries then your phone will start alerting everybody on the train while you struggle to kill the looping background process :-). Randall On 11/8/07, Henryk Plötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moin, Am Fri, 9 Nov 2007 10:22:24 +1300 schrieb Robin Paulson: ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? It should be possible to get http://www.openbeacon.org/ to do just that. The tags can talk to each other or to a base station. You should be able to program two tags to ping each other in regular intervals and then make themselves noticeable when they lose contact. (There are two I/O pins that could be connected to an external piezo buzzer or vibrator.) In principle it should even be possible to fit one of the tags into the Neo, though that might require a new tag PCB design. I think roh already had dreamed about something like that some time before (in a different context). The radio transceiver used by OpenBeacon operates in the 2.4GHz band, but does not follow any particular standard (e.g. no Bluetooth, no Wifi). But it's small and very low power. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
