NOW: OS wars, WAS: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
> But anyways, NetBSD is the best. yes, this is obviously true. on another (the original?) note, the relevant factor regarding being able to open a scientific paper on multiple platforms is that it be readable by as many people as possible -- even those people who run windows. OS belligerence is charming in its own way, but it's unrelated to whether or not the average person can access the equations in your work without booting into a particular operating system. the brand newest version of acrobat is working fine for me after uninstalling the older version. for what it's worth, there's anecdotal evidence that it was a change in the way that acrobat was dealing with certain fonts that they broke in one version (i think that they were adhering to some internal spec more stringently) and then fixed (probably because it caused lots of problems for people). or maybe it's not adobe's fault at all but something in windows. :) s. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
Zach Wegner wrote: > On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 11:44 AM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> But I have to say something about the MAC commercials. I find them >> incredibly offensive (like so many other commercials that play on your >> fears and treat us like we are incredible stupid and cannot see what >> they are trying to do.) They show a stodgy, somewhat older man who >> represents Microsoft along with a "cool" younger, thinner and better >> looking man who represents Macs. The Microsoft man is a bit of a >> dullard while the Mac guy is super-cool and progressive and clearly has >> it together. >> >> What is particularly ironic, is that the type of people who would >> succumb to such an advertisement (by buying a Mac), is probably best >> portrayed by the dullard, the guy in the commercial who obviously isn't >> thinking for himself.Makes me want to puke! >> >> > > I mostly agree with your statements, but I think the Mac commercials aren't > too bad. The "older" guy (who happens to be John Hodgman, a very funny > comedian) just represents boring business types, which I think refers to the > overwhelming advantage that Microsoft has in that type of market (Excel, > Powerpoint, etc.). It's just trying to say that the main purpose of a Mac, > based on the applications that come with it, are playing music, looking at > photos, editing video, and so on. And if you go to a "hip" coffeeshop, you > will see how much power they have in this market. Every college kid sits > there with their iBook editing their independent film and writing in their > blog. Maybe it's just especially bad because I live in Austin, TX, but I get > the impression that it's like that everywhere. I do agree, though, that most > Mac users (just like most computer users in general...) are not thinking for > themselves. Mac users buy both a computer and an image to present to others. > I think you are being too kind to them! They are directly implying that you are a boring conformist if you have a Windows PC and that you should have a MAC instead! The fact that they entertained you and you liked the PC guy made you much more accepting of it.They always try to use guys you will like. Even the "bad guys" are supposed to be lovable - just incompetent but lovable oafs that you can look down on but without too much guilt. Even the bug-killer commercials give you cute lovable bugs.They do not want you to associate too much negative imagery with their products.The main negative emotion they DO want to convey is a little fear and anxiety - over NOT using their product. Especially true with drugs. They have commercials now that present new diseases you probably never heard of, but they imply you might have it and that you should go to your doctor to see if you do.How stupid do they think we are?But presumably we must be pretty stupid because they pay millions on these advertisements. Here is another tactic used:Take an actor or actress on a well known television series who plays a doctor, and use them to give medical advice about which drugs they should be using. You are used to thinking of them as a real doctor and what they say seems to have great weight. I actually love to watch commercials and pick them apart. Try it just for fun. What are they trying to get you to accept? What blatant associations are they connecting with their product? Usually sex appeal, happiness, popularity, etc. I started doing this the day I went to a restaurant with some friends many years ago, and felt just a little odd because I didn't order a coke like everyone else did.Even though I was aware of how advertising works, at that very moment I realized that I was also gullible to the messages they were sending us.This despite the fact that I don't like coke! Anyway, this is WAY OFF the subject and waste of time - sorry. - Don > But anyways, NetBSD is the best. > > > > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 11:44 AM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > But I have to say something about the MAC commercials. I find them > incredibly offensive (like so many other commercials that play on your > fears and treat us like we are incredible stupid and cannot see what > they are trying to do.) They show a stodgy, somewhat older man who > represents Microsoft along with a "cool" younger, thinner and better > looking man who represents Macs. The Microsoft man is a bit of a > dullard while the Mac guy is super-cool and progressive and clearly has > it together. > > What is particularly ironic, is that the type of people who would > succumb to such an advertisement (by buying a Mac), is probably best > portrayed by the dullard, the guy in the commercial who obviously isn't > thinking for himself.Makes me want to puke! > I mostly agree with your statements, but I think the Mac commercials aren't too bad. The "older" guy (who happens to be John Hodgman, a very funny comedian) just represents boring business types, which I think refers to the overwhelming advantage that Microsoft has in that type of market (Excel, Powerpoint, etc.). It's just trying to say that the main purpose of a Mac, based on the applications that come with it, are playing music, looking at photos, editing video, and so on. And if you go to a "hip" coffeeshop, you will see how much power they have in this market. Every college kid sits there with their iBook editing their independent film and writing in their blog. Maybe it's just especially bad because I live in Austin, TX, but I get the impression that it's like that everywhere. I do agree, though, that most Mac users (just like most computer users in general...) are not thinking for themselves. Mac users buy both a computer and an image to present to others. But anyways, NetBSD is the best. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
terry mcintyre wrote: > --- Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> FYI, >> >> Doesn't seem to be a problem on linux Ubuntu Gutsy >> Gibbon. >> > > Perhaps folks should upgrade from Windoze to Linux? > All jokes aside, I know several people who decided to switch - the deciding factor was VISTA, and the dread of yet another round of expensive investments and upgrades and this general distaste of feeling like a sucker for Microsoft. Having said that, my own wife won't switch even though she has a built in support staff (me.) So I just bought her a vista laptop and she likes it.Her frustration tolerance is low - she doesn't want to go through the learning curve of a completely new OS and she would have preferred XP but we got this laptop at a very good price and only Vista was available. She is normally a logical and rational person, she doesn't shop based on name brands, fads or irrational loyalties. In other words, she has no particular loyalty to Microsoft. I like to believe I am the same way, but no matter what you think, the reasons we do things and make certain choices are often based on a substantial amount of irrationality.I just saw Mark Boons message about Mac's. Before you read on - here is my disclaimer: You might be offended! Please don't be. I'm just expressing how I feel about things and you can feel free to make your own post and I won't be offended!So there! I think Macs are a great platform, in many ways better than Linux. This is where pragmatism comes in for me. I'm not a zealot for Linux, but you take any piece of hardware and install Linux for free.If I were writing commercial software for a living, I would probably be developing on Windows, but other than that there is no compelling reason whatsoever to even consider Windows, a proprietary, buggy, virus prone OS that must be frequently reinstalled. I see my windows friends who are experts at installing and reinstalling windows and the constant angst they feel over this, they know how to circumvent Microsoft restrictions on the OS THEY PAYED FOR.But they are in a silent battle constantly with Microsoft doing illegal things behind their backs. With Linux you have a copy of Linux and you install it anywhere, anytime you like and you don't have to feel guilty about it.And you can get a shiny brand new copy every few months (depending on which Linux distribution you use.) If it were between MAC and Windows, it's an easy choice, but Mac is still proprietary, which means it's pricey although I think I agree it is superior to Linux in many ways.(I say "I think" because I have only had limited exposure, but I like what I saw.) In particular, the user interface and the directory layouts with Mac is very appealing and much more logical than Unix in general (even though Mac is Unix.) But I have to say something about the MAC commercials. I find them incredibly offensive (like so many other commercials that play on your fears and treat us like we are incredible stupid and cannot see what they are trying to do.) They show a stodgy, somewhat older man who represents Microsoft along with a "cool" younger, thinner and better looking man who represents Macs. The Microsoft man is a bit of a dullard while the Mac guy is super-cool and progressive and clearly has it together. What is particularly ironic, is that the type of people who would succumb to such an advertisement (by buying a Mac), is probably best portrayed by the dullard, the guy in the commercial who obviously isn't thinking for himself.Makes me want to puke! Of course this is standard survival tactics for businesses. You really see this with automobile commercials too.I laugh every time one of the commercials either tell you outright, or imply that you are a special and unique type of person (who thinks for yourself) if you buy their automobile. It's very bizarre that REALLY they are appealing to the hive mentality after all, because you will notice that people who try to stand out, do the same things.In the 60's it was long hair - supposedly to make you "stand out" as different, but EVERYONE started growing their hair long back then, presumably so they could stand out too! I think Microsoft tries to appeal more directly to the "hive mentality", you should do it because everybody else does it. They can't begin to pretend that it makes you different even though it make a great ad, but you can be sure they would if they were in the minority.So they directly go for the "jump on the bandwagon" type of thing.Fear of being left behind, everyone else is getting cool toys while you are left out in the cold because you didn't buckle under to them. They take technology that has been around for a long time, and tell you it's brand new cutting edge "innovative" stuff.And it IS innovative to most people because they only kno
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
Hello, I have the same problem with version 7.0.7 of Adobe Reader but version 8.1.2 works fine. Hope this helps, Hideki steve uurtamo: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >Hello, > >I'm getting the same thing here in windows: > >"Cannot extract the embedded font..." > >Was it made with pdflatex or somesuch? Could >it be a version issue there? > >s. > >On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:48 AM, Jacques Basaldúa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hi David >> >> >> http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~silver/research/publications/files/MoGoNectar.pdf >> >> Your paper has a PDF problem concerning "embedded font BXGQFO+CMR12". I >> have used >> different versions of Adobe Reader. I even updated one of the computers to >> the latest version >> and I still cannot read any mathematical expressions. I guess this applies >> to all Windows users. >> >> Jacques. >> ___ >> computer-go mailing list >> computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ >> >___ >computer-go mailing list >computer-go@computer-go.org >http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kato) ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI
On Mon, Apr 07, 2008 at 08:36:25AM -0400, Jason House wrote: > On Apr 7, 2008, at 8:22 AM, Petr Baudis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 08:55:26PM -0600, David Silver wrote: >>> Here is a draft of the paper, any feedback would be very welcome :-) >>> >>> http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~silver/research/publications/files/MoGoNectar.pdf >> >> you are saying that in minimax, opponent moves are selected by >> minimizing the lower confidence bound - this seems novel, is that so? I >> always got the impression that for the opponent moves, you reverse the >> mean value but still use UCB. > > I think both methods are equivalent. The UCB for one player is 1-LCB for > the other player... Hmm, you are right, but this can get rather hairy considering things like FPU; perhaps the formulation is simply unnecessarily confusing. -- Petr "Pasky" Baudis Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it.-- J. W. von Goethe ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
On 7-apr-08, at 11:52, terry mcintyre wrote: Perhaps folks should upgrade from Windoze to Linux? Linux is for hobbyists. Mac OS X rules! ;-) ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
--- Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > FYI, > > Doesn't seem to be a problem on linux Ubuntu Gutsy > Gibbon. Perhaps folks should upgrade from Windoze to Linux? > Jacques Basaldúa wrote: > > Hi David > > > > > http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~silver/research/publications/files/MoGoNectar.pdf > > > > > > Your paper has a PDF problem concerning "embedded > font BXGQFO+CMR12". > > I have used > > different versions of Adobe Reader. I even updated > one of the > > computers to the latest version > > and I still cannot read any mathematical > expressions. I guess this > > applies to all Windows users. > > Terry McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Wherever is found what is called a paternal government, there is found state education. It has been discovered that the best way to insure implicit obedience is to commence tyranny in the nursery. Benjamin Disraeli, Speech in the House of Commons [June 15, 1874] You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
Greetings, As to the quality of the pdf, I am able to see all the text and equations and diagrams without a problem, but see a problem with the pagination: all the pages seem to have zero margin at the top, which causes a problem when printing (most printers can't print to the top 1/4 inch of the page or so...), and looks a little odd. All the best, Erik On Apr 7, 2008, at 8:00 AM, Don Dailey wrote: FYI, Doesn't seem to be a problem on linux Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon. - Don Jacques Basaldúa wrote: Hi David http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~silver/research/publications/files/ MoGoNectar.pdf Your paper has a PDF problem concerning "embedded font BXGQFO+CMR12". I have used different versions of Adobe Reader. I even updated one of the computers to the latest version and I still cannot read any mathematical expressions. I guess this applies to all Windows users. Jacques. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
FYI, Doesn't seem to be a problem on linux Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon. - Don Jacques Basaldúa wrote: > Hi David > > http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~silver/research/publications/files/MoGoNectar.pdf > > > Your paper has a PDF problem concerning "embedded font BXGQFO+CMR12". > I have used > different versions of Adobe Reader. I even updated one of the > computers to the latest version > and I still cannot read any mathematical expressions. I guess this > applies to all Windows users. > > Jacques. > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI
On Apr 7, 2008, at 8:22 AM, Petr Baudis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello, On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 08:55:26PM -0600, David Silver wrote: Here is a draft of the paper, any feedback would be very welcome :-) http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~silver/research/publications/files/MoGoNectar.pdf you are saying that in minimax, opponent moves are selected by minimizing the lower confidence bound - this seems novel, is that so? I always got the impression that for the opponent moves, you reverse the mean value but still use UCB. I think both methods are equivalent. The UCB for one player is 1-LCB for the other player... Is the FPU heuristics not mentioned in the paper only for space reasons, or did it prove not to be so useful in practice in the end? I see three unclear details about the RAVE algorithm: Are only nodes in the tree considered for the inclusion, or also moves in the following random playout? And one of the sentences hints that there is a separate period of playouts purely seeding the RAVE value before the UCT-RAVE linear combination takes over - is that so? And it does not follow from the paper that that the UCB formula is used for the RAVE value as well, while the ICML paper states that. I am surprised on the bad effect of the grandfather heuristic and the good effect of the even game heuristic. I assume that the effect of the heuristics should accumulate when several of them are combined in the prior value? The paper looks very nice otherwise. By the way, has anyone measured how big influence different weight of playouts has on the various heuristics? For example, I'm still struggling to get any improvement from RAVE whatsoever myself, but I don't know if it is because I'm getting it wrong or whether it might manifest only when making the playouts stronger (I randomly use only three hardcoded patterns in the playouts). Thanks, -- Petr "Pasky" Baudis Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it.-- J. W. von Goethe ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI
Views fine on my iPhone. My only advice is to review the paragraph after equation 3. For example, what the difference is of is unclear. I was also unable to read the exponent in the equation for phi. It may just be insufficient zoom... Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2008, at 10:55 PM, David Silver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi everyone, Sylvain and myself have had a paper accepted for the Nectar track at the 23rd Conference on Artificial Intelligence (AAAI-08). The idea of this track is to summarise previously published results from a specific field to a wider audience interested in general AI. Please bear in mind the following: 1. There is no new material in this paper that we have not already published. 2. There is a 4 page limit, and so there are many details that have been skipped over in this paper. 3. The learned heuristic, using local shape features, is not used in the competitive version of MoGo (including the MPI MoGo that played a professional player last week). Several people on the mailing list expressed disappointment last year that they found our ICML paper inaccessible. This paper is intended to be read by a wider audience, and should hopefully be more accessible. Having said that, this is still an academic paper for a technical AI conference, and so some background knowledge is assumed :-) Here is a draft of the paper, any feedback would be very welcome :-) http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~silver/research/publications/files/MoGoNectar.pdf David and Sylvain ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI
Hello, On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 08:55:26PM -0600, David Silver wrote: > Here is a draft of the paper, any feedback would be very welcome :-) > > http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~silver/research/publications/files/MoGoNectar.pdf you are saying that in minimax, opponent moves are selected by minimizing the lower confidence bound - this seems novel, is that so? I always got the impression that for the opponent moves, you reverse the mean value but still use UCB. Is the FPU heuristics not mentioned in the paper only for space reasons, or did it prove not to be so useful in practice in the end? I see three unclear details about the RAVE algorithm: Are only nodes in the tree considered for the inclusion, or also moves in the following random playout? And one of the sentences hints that there is a separate period of playouts purely seeding the RAVE value before the UCT-RAVE linear combination takes over - is that so? And it does not follow from the paper that that the UCB formula is used for the RAVE value as well, while the ICML paper states that. I am surprised on the bad effect of the grandfather heuristic and the good effect of the even game heuristic. I assume that the effect of the heuristics should accumulate when several of them are combined in the prior value? The paper looks very nice otherwise. By the way, has anyone measured how big influence different weight of playouts has on the various heuristics? For example, I'm still struggling to get any improvement from RAVE whatsoever myself, but I don't know if it is because I'm getting it wrong or whether it might manifest only when making the playouts stronger (I randomly use only three hardcoded patterns in the playouts). Thanks, -- Petr "Pasky" Baudis Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it.-- J. W. von Goethe ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
Hello, I'm getting the same thing here in windows: "Cannot extract the embedded font..." Was it made with pdflatex or somesuch? Could it be a version issue there? s. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:48 AM, Jacques Basaldúa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi David > > > http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~silver/research/publications/files/MoGoNectar.pdf > > Your paper has a PDF problem concerning "embedded font BXGQFO+CMR12". I > have used > different versions of Adobe Reader. I even updated one of the computers to > the latest version > and I still cannot read any mathematical expressions. I guess this applies > to all Windows users. > > Jacques. > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
No, I can read it without problems on windows. Quoting Jacques Basaldúa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: and I still cannot read any mathematical expressions. I guess this applies to all Windows users. -Magnus ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
Hi On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Jacques Basaldúa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~silver/research/publications/files/MoGoNectar.pdf > > Your paper has a PDF problem concerning "embedded font BXGQFO+CMR12". I > have used > different versions of Adobe Reader. I even updated one of the computers to > the latest version > and I still cannot read any mathematical expressions. I guess this applies > to all Windows users. FYI, it works fine for me (on Windows). regards, Vlad -- ...__o ...\<, ( )/ ( )... ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Paper for AAAI (David Silver) PDF problem
Hi David http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~silver/research/publications/files/MoGoNectar.pdf Your paper has a PDF problem concerning "embedded font BXGQFO+CMR12". I have used different versions of Adobe Reader. I even updated one of the computers to the latest version and I still cannot read any mathematical expressions. I guess this applies to all Windows users. Jacques. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
