Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

2016-02-22 Thread Robert Jasiek 
Aja, sorry to bother you with trivialities, but how does Alphago avoid 
power or network failures and such incidents?


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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

2016-02-22 Thread Nick Wedd 
Indeed. And the name is similar to 'WeakBot50k', a deliberately weak
program. The 'WeakBot' account is used by HiraBot.

Nick.
On Feb 22, 2016 1:29 PM, "Aja Huang"  wrote:

> WeakBot's author might want to rename the program? It's not weak at all. :)
>
> Aja
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Nick Wedd  wrote:
>
>> Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the February KGS tournament!
>>
>> My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html
>>  .
>> As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
>>
>> Nick
>> --
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>> mapr...@gmail.com
>>
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

2016-02-22 Thread John Tromp 
dear Aja,

> AlphaGo is getting stronger and stronger. I hope you all will enjoy watching
> the games.

Could you tell us if Alpha Go is able to come up with that most famous of moves:

http://senseis.xmp.net/?EarReddeningMove

Or is it so strong that it found an even better move:-?

regards,
-John

PS: looks like the games are played in the middle of the night for us
on the US east coast:-(
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

2016-02-22 Thread Jim O'Flaherty 
Aja,

My anticipation couldn't be any higher, I don't think! I wish you and your
AlphaGo team the best of luck!


Namaste,

Jim

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Aja Huang  wrote:

> Hi Ingo,
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 3:49 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
> wrote:
>>
>> By the way: is progress fine with respect to your March event?
>>
>
> We are still preparing hard for the match.
>
> Apologies I didn't answer many questions regarding AlphaGo and
> particularly value network, but I will have time to carefully read and
> answer those questions after the Lee Sedol match.
>
> AlphaGo is getting stronger and stronger. I hope you all will enjoy
> watching the games.
>
> Cheers,
> Aja
>
>
>>
>> Cheers, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] German poll on March match

2016-02-22 Thread Ingo Althöfer 
Hi Aja,

thanks for the quick reply.

In German computer go forum we have a poll on the outcome
of the match in March. So far 65 persons participated.
Their votes distribute as follwos:

38  Lee Sedol wins
17  AlphaGo wins

10  don't know

 
> We are still preparing hard for the match. 
> ...
> AlphaGo is getting stronger and stronger. 
> I hope you all will enjoy watching the games.
 
We/I have problems to stand the tension...
Still 17 days.

Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

2016-02-22 Thread Ingo Althöfer 
Hi Erik,

> The most important skill in this game might be in how accurately 
> you can throw your frisbee. Why take that out? 
>
> Build real robots!

agreed, but one step after the other.

My tentative time table looks like follows (joking):

2016  Frisbee Go simulation in the Computer Olympiad (in Leiden)
2017  Frisbee Go simulations in the Computer Olympiad (with subdivisions for 
different move distributions)
2022  First Robot Competition (7x7 Go) of Frisbee Go in the Computer Olympiad
2025  Renaming the ICGA to IC(G+R)A: we should also host Robot table tennis and 
other games

;-)


Back to reality (no joke): Some of you may remember the nice location in Leiden 
from 2015.
In particular we had a grass area, sort of atrium.
I will bring with me 81 frisbees (40 in White, 41 in a surprise color)
for Frisbee Go as a human entertainment, and a net for the 9x9 board.

Ingo.





Erik
 
On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 4:42 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> 
wrote:Dear John, Dear Nick, Dear all,

> > ...
> > Suppose I want to play on either of two adjacent points, and I don't care
> > which. If I aim for one of them, I will land on one of them with probability
> > (3p+1)/4, or whatever the formula says. I feel that I ought to be able to do
> > better by aiming midway between them.
>
> But then why stop there? You may also want to aim in between 4 points.
> Or perhaps just epsilon more toward the right of there.
>
> There's no accounting for all possibilities of real life frisbee Go,
> so we settle for the simplest rule that captures the esssence...

John is exactly argumenting in my direction.
Keep the rules set as simple as possible.

Once a stable Frisbee Go simulation scene is established, people
may build subscenes if they want. And of course, once Frisbee robot Go
will be played in real, programmers will look at all possible tricks.

Regards, Ingo.

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Re: [Computer-go] longest 3x3 game

2016-02-22 Thread John Tromp 
dear Ingo,

>>> ... (1 + delta)^(m*n).
>>
>> This is true, and a delta > 2 follows from a Theorem in an
>> upcoming paper by Matthieu Walraet and myself.
>
> Do you mean (1+delta) > 2, or really (1+delta) > 3?

Oops; I mean delta >= 1, so the base of the exponent is at least 2.

(1+delta) is necessarily bounded by the base of liberties of 2.975734192...

> Please let us know when a preprint is available on ArXiv or some other place.

The original write-up by Matthieu is available at
http://matthieuw.github.io/go-games-number/GoGamesNumber.pdf

Our CG2016 submission both simplifies and improves on that,
but that write-up should already convince you of how to achieve delta 1.

regards,
-John
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Re: [Computer-go] longest 3x3 game

2016-02-22 Thread Ingo Althöfer 
Dear John,

thanks for the explanations (and paper announcement).


>> ... (1 + delta)^(m*n).
> 
> This is true, and a delta > 2 follows from a Theorem in an
> upcoming paper by Matthieu Walraet and myself.

Do you mean (1+delta) > 2, or really (1+delta) > 3?


> > Might neural nets help to find (very) long games
> > for given board size?
> 
> Neural nets are not the best way to deal with avoiding superko:-(

I had some special way to use them in mind - but too complicated
to explain it here.

Please let us know when a preprint is available on ArXiv or some other place.

Cheers, Ingo.

PS. I am just a guest of Richard Lorentz in LA. He met you only once
(back in Summer 2002 in Maastricht). Richard still remembers vividly your
research energy! Keep it alive.
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Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

2016-02-22 Thread Erik van der Werf 
The most important skill in this game might be in how accurately you can
throw your frisbee. Why take that out? Build real robots!

;-)
Erik

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 4:42 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
wrote:

> Dear John, Dear Nick, Dear all,
>
> > > ...
> > > Suppose I want to play on either of two adjacent points, and I don't
> care
> > > which. If I aim for one of them, I will land on one of them with
> probability
> > > (3p+1)/4, or whatever the formula says. I feel that I ought to be able
> to do
> > > better by aiming midway between them.
> >
> > But then why stop there? You may also want to aim in between 4 points.
> > Or perhaps just epsilon more toward the right of there.
> >
> > There's no accounting for all possibilities of real life frisbee Go,
> > so we settle for the simplest rule that captures the esssence...
>
> John is exactly argumenting in my direction.
> Keep the rules set as simple as possible.
>
> Once a stable Frisbee Go simulation scene is established, people
> may build subscenes if they want. And of course, once Frisbee robot Go
> will be played in real, programmers will look at all possible tricks.
>
> Regards, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

2016-02-22 Thread Ingo Althöfer 
Hi Aja,

> WeakBot's author might want to rename the program? It's not weak at all. :)
 
thanks for that comment. It is exactly what I was tempted to post.
A simple change would be to
WakeBot (simple shuffling the letters).



By the way: is progress fine with respect to your March event?

Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Match Date: March 09 - 15

2016-02-22 Thread Ingo Althöfer 
Dear Seo Sanghyeon,

thanks a lot for your information.
In German computer go forum
FJ Dickhut (the winner of the codecentric Challenges in
2014 and 2015) gave the different levels of prize money
(to Lee Sedol) for different outcomes of the match:

0:5 Lee gets 150.000 USD 
1:4 Lee gets 170.000 USD
2:3 Lee gets 190.000 USD
3:2 yeah! 1.210.000 USD 
4:1   1.230.000 USD
5:0   1.250.000 USD

FJ is a careful person. So he added: "only if I understood it correctly".

Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

2016-02-22 Thread Ingo Althöfer 
Dear John, Dear Nick, Dear all,

> > ...
> > Suppose I want to play on either of two adjacent points, and I don't care
> > which. If I aim for one of them, I will land on one of them with probability
> > (3p+1)/4, or whatever the formula says. I feel that I ought to be able to do
> > better by aiming midway between them.
> 
> But then why stop there? You may also want to aim in between 4 points.
> Or perhaps just epsilon more toward the right of there.
>
> There's no accounting for all possibilities of real life frisbee Go,
> so we settle for the simplest rule that captures the esssence...

John is exactly argumenting in my direction.
Keep the rules set as simple as possible.

Once a stable Frisbee Go simulation scene is established, people
may build subscenes if they want. And of course, once Frisbee robot Go
will be played in real, programmers will look at all possible tricks.

Regards, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

2016-02-22 Thread Álvaro Begué 
You could express the intended move as a pair of real numbers. A random
offset is then added, following some probability distribution (Gaussian, or
uniform in a disk of a certain radius, or ...), and then the result is
rounded to the nearest point of integer coordinates. What possibilities
does this not cover?

I like the idea of using Gaussian noise and handicapping games by assigning
a larger variance to the stronger player. :)

Álvaro.



On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 10:27 AM, John Tromp  wrote:

> dear Nick,
>
> > There's an assumption implicitly made here, which does not accord with my
> > experience of frisbee Go: that the player will always aim at an
> > intersection.
> >
> > Suppose I want to play on either of two adjacent points, and I don't care
> > which. If I aim for one of them, I will land on one of them with
> probability
> > (3p+1)/4, or whatever the formula says. I feel that I ought to be able
> to do
> > better by aiming midway between them.
>
> But then why stop there? You may also want to aim in between 4 points.
> Or perhaps just epsilon more toward the right of there.
>
> There's no accounting for all possibilities of real life frisbee Go,
> so we settle for the simplest rule that captures the esssence...
>
> regards,
> -John
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Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

2016-02-22 Thread John Tromp 
dear Nick,

> There's an assumption implicitly made here, which does not accord with my
> experience of frisbee Go: that the player will always aim at an
> intersection.
>
> Suppose I want to play on either of two adjacent points, and I don't care
> which. If I aim for one of them, I will land on one of them with probability
> (3p+1)/4, or whatever the formula says. I feel that I ought to be able to do
> better by aiming midway between them.

But then why stop there? You may also want to aim in between 4 points.
Or perhaps just epsilon more toward the right of there.

There's no accounting for all possibilities of real life frisbee Go,
so we settle for the simplest rule that captures the esssence...

regards,
-John
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

2016-02-22 Thread Nick Wedd 
Yes, my mistake. I have now corrected it to "Black has still won".  Thank
you for pointing it out.

Nick

On 22 February 2016 at 12:21, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira  wrote:

> In round 26 gnugo vs matilda is this right
>
> "They then disagreed about the status of the black stones at the bottom
> of the board (they are dead, but even if they live somehow, White has
> still won)."
>
> By my count black has 48 and white 33+7. This caught my eye because
> matilda has a pretty good resigning game.
>
> Gonçalo
>
> On 22/02/2016 12:10, Nick Wedd wrote:
> > Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the February KGS tournament!
> >
> > My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html
> >  .
> > As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
> >
> > Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

2016-02-22 Thread Rémi Coulom 

Better link:
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html

(your link sends to the January tournament)

On 02/22/2016 01:10 PM, Nick Wedd wrote:

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the February KGS tournament!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html 
 .

As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.

Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

2016-02-22 Thread Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira 
In round 26 gnugo vs matilda is this right

"They then disagreed about the status of the black stones at the bottom
of the board (they are dead, but even if they live somehow, White has
still won)."

By my count black has 48 and white 33+7. This caught my eye because
matilda has a pretty good resigning game.

Gonçalo

On 22/02/2016 12:10, Nick Wedd wrote:
> Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the February KGS tournament!
> 
> My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html
>  .
> As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
> 
> Nick
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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

2016-02-22 Thread Nick Wedd 
Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the February KGS tournament!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html
 .
As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.

Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

2016-02-22 Thread Nick Wedd 
There's an assumption implicitly made here, which does not accord with my
experience of frisbee Go: that the player will always aim at an
intersection.

Suppose I want to play on either of two adjacent points, and I don't care
which. If I aim for one of them, I will land on one of them with
probability (3p+1)/4, or whatever the formula says. I feel that I ought to
be able to do better by aiming midway between them.

Nick

On 21 February 2016 at 00:09, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Has a consensus been reached about the rules/GTP modifications for
> frisbee Go? I assume a genmove turns into a genmove_reg+play, but:
>
> 1. What happens with plays unintentionally on top of stones or out of
> bounds?
> 1.1 If converted to passes, do they count towards end of play and
> scoring phase?
> 2. How are the play probabilities distributed?
>
> I don't remember this being settled, but maybe I've missed it.
>
> Gonçalo
>
>
> PS: Late congratulations to Silver, Huang et al, and John Tromp.
> PPS: My money is still on Lee Sedol.
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Re: [Computer-go] Match Date: March 09 - 15

2016-02-22 Thread Seo Sanghyeon 
2016-02-06 23:09 GMT+09:00 Petri Pitkanen :
> Still no time limits. I would assume that very short time limits help
> computer, not very sure though

Today Korea Baduk Association and Google held a joint press conference
and announced:

* March 9, 10, 12, 13, 15
* Start 13:00, in UTC+9
* Chinese rule, 7.5 komi
* 2 hours plus 3 1-minute byoyomi
* Commentary in English and Korean
* Live broadcast to YouTube and Baduk TV

If you can read Korean, see
http://media.daum.net/digital/internet/newsview?newsid=20160222170011355

-- 
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