Re: [Computer-go] Our Silicon Overlord

[Xavier Combelle]

Le 05/01/2017 à 07:37, Robert Jasiek a écrit :
> On 04.01.2017 22:08, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:
>> humanity's last hope
>
> The "last hope" are theoreticians creating arcane positions far
> outside the NN of AlphaGo so that its deep reading would be
> insufficient compensation! Another chance is long-term, subtle
> creation and use of aji.
>
The problem is that you have to find a way to constraint alphago to
reach the position you have prepared it will be very hard because it has
the choice of half of the moves which leads to the position.

From computer science point of view, theoricaly, the best move on an
arbitrary position being a PSPACE hard problem, any problem at least
easier than PSPACE could translate in a go problem. So there is a huge
amount of difficult problems (understand impossible to solve except on
toy size) which could be setup as target go positions but the real
problems is that you have to reach this position which are very unlikely
to happen in a real game.

An easy way to win against Alphago strength level of bot is to make two 
deterministic version of it, make it play one against the other and
replay the moves of the wining side.

--
Xavier

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Our Silicon Overlord

[Robert Jasiek]

On 04.01.2017 22:08, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:

humanity's last hope


The "last hope" are theoreticians creating arcane positions far outside 
the NN of AlphaGo so that its deep reading would be insufficient 
compensation! Another chance is long-term, subtle creation and use of aji.


--
robert jasiek
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Reminder: Handicap-29 Prize

[fotland]

Yes. I’m travelling this week, but when I get home I can look for it. I’m not 
sure I can find the old source backups to make a gtp version.

 

David

 

From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of 
Álvaro Begué
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2017 4:48 PM
To: computer-go 
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Reminder: Handicap-29 Prize

 

Would you be willing to make the executable of mfgo1998 available so we can run 
it locally? Or even better, something with the same engine but which speaks GTP?

 

Álvaro.

 

 

 

 

 

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 10:32 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de 
 > wrote:

Like in every year, the reminder on my Handicap-29 prize:
http://www.althofer.de/handicap-29-prize.html

I think, AlphaGo in its current form would not have a chance to cash in ;-)

Ingo.
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org  
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

 

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

[Horace Ho]

The players and the results (in Chinese):

第01局：Magist(P)执白 v. 满汉(P)（棋手真名不详），白中盘胜
第02局：Magist(P)执白 v. 燕归来(P)（棋手真名不详），白中盘胜
第03局：圣人(P)（棋手真名不详）执白 v. Magist(P)，黑中盘胜
第04局：Magist(P)执白 v. 卧虎(P)（谢尔豪 ），白中盘胜
第05局：无痕(P)（於之莹）执白 v. Magist(P)，黑中盘胜
第06局：翱翔(P)（李翔宇）执白 v. Magist(P)，黑中盘胜
第07局：重逢时(P)（棋手真名不详）执白 v. Magist(P)，黑中盘胜
第08局：Magist(P)执白 v. 三齐王(P)（韩一洲 ），白中盘胜
第09局：愿我能(P)（孟泰龄）执白 v. Magist(P)，黑胜4目半（黑贴6目半）
第10局：Magist(P)执白 v. 愿我能(P)（孟泰龄），白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第11局：Master(P)执白 v. 风雨(P)（棋手真名不详），白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第12局：Master(P)执白 v. atomy(P)（棋手真名不详），白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第13局：Master(P)执白 v. 远山君(P)（棋手真名不详），白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第14局：斩立决(P)（严在明）执白 v. Master(P)，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第15局：Master(P)执白 v. XIUZHI(P)（朴廷桓），白时间胜（黑贴6目半）
第16局：Master(P)执白 v. 剑术(P)（连笑），白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第17局：Master(P)执白 v. 剑术(P)（连笑），白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第18局：吻别(P)（疑似柯洁）执白v. Master(P)，黑胜5目半（黑贴6目半）
第19局：Master(P)执白 v. 吻别(P)（疑似柯洁），白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第20局：XIUZHI(P)（朴廷桓）执白 v. Master(P)，黑胜5目半（黑贴6目半）
第21局：Master(P)执白 v. 龙胆(P)（陈耀烨 ），白胜5目半（黑贴6目半）
第22局：Master(P)执白 v. 龙胆(P)（陈耀烨），白胜4目半（黑贴6目半）
第23局：abc2080(P)（金志锡）执白 v. Master(P)，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第24局：XIUZHI(P)（朴廷桓）执白 v. Master(P)，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第25局：Master(P)执白 v. XIUZHI(P)（朴廷桓），白胜半目（黑贴6目半）
第26局：dauning(P)（李东勋）执白 v. Master(P)，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第27局：ddcg（范廷钰 ）执白 v. Master(P)，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第28局：愿我能(P)（孟泰龄）执白 v. Master(P)，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第29局：Master(P)执白 v. 拼搏(P)（芈昱廷），白胜半目（黑贴6目半）
第30局：Master(P)执白 v. 930115（唐韦星），白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第31局：Master 执黑 v. black2012（李钦诚），黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第32局：星宿老仙（古力）执黑 v. Master，白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第33局：Master执黑 v. 星宿老仙（古力），黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第34局：Master执黑 v. 我想静静了（党毅飞），黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第35局：若水云寒（江维杰）执黑 v. Master，白胜1目半（黑贴6目半）
第36局：Master执黑 v. 印城之霸（辜梓豪），黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第37局：Master执黑 v. pyh（朴永训） ，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第38局：Master执黑 v. 天选（柁嘉熹），黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第39局：Master执黑 v. jpgo01（井山裕太），黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第40局：愿我能（孟泰龄）执黑 v. Master ，白胜2目半（黑贴6目半）
第41局：airforce9（金志锡）执黑 v. Master ，白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第42局：Master执黑 v. 时间之虫（杨鼎新），共125手，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第43局：Master执黑 v. piaojie（姜东润） ，共165手，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第44局：spinmove（安成浚）执黑 v. Master ，共260手，白胜2目半（黑贴6目半）
第45局：Master执黑 v. 炼心（时越） ，共167手，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第46局：剑过无声（连笑）执黑 v. Master ，共144手，白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第47局：Master执黑 v. 段誉（檀啸），共191手，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第48局：maker（朴廷桓）执黑 v. Master，共270手，白胜1目半（黑贴6目半）
第49局：wonfun（元晟溱）执黑 v. Master ，共222手，白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第50局：潜伏（柯洁）执黑 v. Master ，共178手，白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第51局：周俊勳执黑 v. Master ，共118手，白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第52局：ykpcx（范廷钰）执黑 v. Master，共202手，白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第53局：Master执黑 v. 孔明（黄云嵩），共133手，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第54局：Master执黑 v. 聂卫平，共254手，黑胜7目半（黑贴6目半）
第55局：谜团（陈耀烨；孟泰龄）执黑 v. Master ，共267手，白胜1目半（黑贴6目半）
第56局：Master执黑 v. shadowpow（赵汉乘），共171手，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第57局：Master执黑 v. nparadigm（申真谞），共139手，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第58局：小香馋猫（常昊）执黑 v. Master，共178手，白中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第59局：Master执黑 v. Eason （周睿羊），共161手，黑中盘胜（黑贴6目半）
第60局：古力执黑 v. Master，共235手，白胜2目半（黑贴6目半）

Source: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4922688212


On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 6:37 AM, Thomas Rohde  wrote:

>
> On 2017-01-04 at 21:41, Richard Lorentz  wrote:
>
> > Having fallen a bit out of the loop can somebody please update me (us?)
> a little on these 60 games. How strong were the opponents? Are
> some/most/all actually pros? What was the time control? What is the Foxwq
> server?
>
> Many 9d pros, among them Ke Jie, Park Junghwan, Gu Li … see the SGF
> archive that Marcel Grünauer compiled: http://rechne.net/dl/the_
> master_files.zip
>
> 60 won games in a row :-o
>
>
> Greetings, Tom
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Rohde
> Wiesenkamp 12, 29646 Bispingen, GERMANY
> --
> +49 5194 6741 | t...@bonobo.com
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] it's alphago

[Yamato]

Yes, it is AlphaGo. I am relieved that DeepMind clarified this.

Honestly I got a little frustrated that many people didn't think that
was AlphaGo. It was almost clear to me because I know the difficulty of
developing AlphaGo-like bots.

I hope Aja can comment here, also about GodMoves :)

Yamato
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] it's alphago

[Ray Tayek]

https://games.slashdot.org/story/17/01/04/2022236/googles-alphago-ai-secretively-won-more-than-50-straight-games-against-worlds-top-go-players


--
Honesty is a very expensive gift. So, don't expect it from cheap people - 
Warren Buffett
http://tayek.com/

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance, a few days downtime

[Lukas van de Wiel]

Well, now that we all know the Master was AlphaGo after all, the downtime
is not so critical anymore. :-)
Take your time and thank you for your effort in keeping the server working.

Cheers
Lukas

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Rémi Coulom  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> All the SGF posts by Andries were classified as spam for me.
>
> I recently set up a mail server to handle user registrations at
> crazy-sensei.com. Here is a collection of links that helped me to improve
> the chances of having registration emails reach their recipients. Maybe
> they can help you:
>
> https://www.exratione.com/2014/07/setting-up-spf-and-
> dkim-for-an-ubuntu-1404-mail-server/
> https://www.skelleton.net/2015/03/21/how-to-eliminate-
> spam-and-protect-your-name-with-dmarc/
> https://help.directadmin.com/item.php?id=207
> https://blog.stickleback.dk/getting-off-hotmails-blocklist/
>
> http://dkimvalidator.com/
> https://www.port25.com/authentication-checker/
> https://www.mail-tester.com/
>
> The diagnostics of www.mail-tester.com were really useful. I bet this
> mailing list would have a very low score.
>
> The IP of my server was blacklisted by hotmail. I had to contact them to
> be removed from the list.
>
> Setting up a mail server such that sent mail actually reaches its
> recipients is a bit complicated.
>
> Thanks for managing this list.
>
> Rémi
>
> - Mail original -
> De: v...@computer-go.org
> À: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Envoyé: Mardi 3 Janvier 2017 01:37:26
> Objet: Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance, a few days downtime
>
> Hi,
> I haven't done anything yet, family showed up and put
> everything on hold.
> I'm curious what may have been different.  I have
> approved some posts that were held for various reasons, but,
> while seldom, that happens regularly.
> If you like, indicate which they were.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
>
> On Sat, 31 Dec 2016, Rémi Coulom wrote:
>
> > Recent emails to the list are now classified as spam in my mail client.
> I did not take the time to check the reason in details. But it never
> happened in the past. Maybe you should check whether your SPF record is set
> correctly.
> >
> > Rémi
> >
> > - Mail original -
> > De: v...@computer-go.org
> > À: computer-go@computer-go.org, wvgc...@computer-go.org
> > Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Décembre 2016 19:56:04
> > Objet: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance, a few days downtime
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >   I will be bringing the email lists down for a few
> > days while I rebuild the servers.  There should be no
> > apparent change.
> >   It's seems like a good time, with little traffic,
> > so I'll take it down in a few hours.  I will post when it's
> > back.  It will have a new IP.
> >
> >   Thanks,
> >   Michael
> > ___
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > Computer-go@computer-go.org
> > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> > ___
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > Computer-go@computer-go.org
> > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

[Thomas Rohde]

On 2017-01-04 at 21:41, Richard Lorentz  wrote:

> Having fallen a bit out of the loop can somebody please update me (us?) a 
> little on these 60 games. How strong were the opponents? Are some/most/all 
> actually pros? What was the time control? What is the Foxwq server?

Many 9d pros, among them Ke Jie, Park Junghwan, Gu Li … see the SGF archive 
that Marcel Grünauer compiled: http://rechne.net/dl/the_master_files.zip

60 won games in a row :-o


Greetings, Tom



-- 
Thomas Rohde
Wiesenkamp 12, 29646 Bispingen, GERMANY
--
+49 5194 6741 | t...@bonobo.com
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Reminder: Handicap-29 Prize

[Ingo Althöfer]

Like in every year, the reminder on my Handicap-29 prize:
http://www.althofer.de/handicap-29-prize.html

I think, AlphaGo in its current form would not have a chance to cash in ;-)

Ingo.
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Our Silicon Overlord

[Adrian Petrescu]

I think it was mentioned that Master was playing all of its moves in almost
exactly 5-second increments, even trivial forcing move responses, which was
one of the things that led people to believe it was an AI. If that's true,
AlphaGo was basically playing under a time-handicap.

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 4:08 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
wrote:

> Hi Richard,
>
> > ... can somebody please update me (us?) a
> > little on these 60 games. How strong were
> > the opponents?
>
> they were all strong pro players. Ke Jie (humanity's last hope
> in the eyes of several go players) also played three of the
> games.
>
> Thinking times were small base times plus 3 byoyomi periods of
> 30 seconds each.
>
> 
> I remember the nice A Capella Song on Alpha Go from
> March 2016 (only the first 30 seconds are relevant):
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh_mfGo183Y
>
> From the text:
> >> AlphaGo! AlphaGo! ...
> >> Ruler of the board ...
> >> We welcome our silicon overlord.
>
> Originally it was "overlords", but at the moment we have only one.
>
> Ingo.
>
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Our Silicon Overlord

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Richard,
 
> ... can somebody please update me (us?) a 
> little on these 60 games. How strong were 
> the opponents? 

they were all strong pro players. Ke Jie (humanity's last hope
in the eyes of several go players) also played three of the 
games. 

Thinking times were small base times plus 3 byoyomi periods of 
30 seconds each.


I remember the nice A Capella Song on Alpha Go from
March 2016 (only the first 30 seconds are relevant):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh_mfGo183Y

From the text:
>> AlphaGo! AlphaGo! ...
>> Ruler of the board ...
>> We welcome our silicon overlord.

Originally it was "overlords", but at the moment we have only one.

Ingo.

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

[Richard Lorentz]

Having fallen a bit out of the loop can somebody please update me (us?) 
a little on these 60 games. How strong were the opponents? Are 
some/most/all actually pros? What was the time control? What is the 
Foxwq server?


Thank you very much!

-Richard


On 01/04/2017 12:07 PM, David Ongaro wrote:
After this unbelievable streak of 60 won games (even though we still 
have to see how it holds up with longer time control) it’s not 
completely unthinkable anymore to play top pros with a handicap. 


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

[David Ongaro]

After this unbelievable streak of 60 won games (even though we still have to 
see how it holds up with longer time control) it’s not completely unthinkable 
anymore to play top pros with a handicap. Sadly because the Komi is fixed for 
the value network it seems the next bigger handicap is 2 stones with Komi for 
white which seems a big jump. Also having 2 stone games is not so interesting 
since it would reveal less insights for even game opening Theory. So my 
question is: is it possible to have reverse Komi games by feeding the value 
network with reverse colors? Or wouldn’t that work because the value network is 
so fine calibrated that it would throw it off if there is one more white stone 
than usual? I guess the policy network and MTSC should have no problems with a 
changed Komi?

Maybe Aja or some other expert for Value networks can answer that?

Thanks

David O.


> On Jan 4, 2017, at 8:02 AM, Jim O'Flaherty  wrote:
> 
> Tysvm for posting that!
> 
> I had predicted it was AlphaGo from the beginning. If there is a competitor 
> emerging, I think we would have seen some sort of publicity around it, if not 
> just to provoke a response with the AlphaGo team.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Janzert  > wrote:
> On 1/2/2017 7:05 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:
> Hello Paweł,
> 
> There have been another 8 games on Foxwq server:
> ...
> Totally, 38-0. It looks like a kind, indirect (yet powerful), message
> from DeepMind to Chinese Go Association: "Please, let us try a real
> challenge, like 3-handicap games, it does not really make much sense
> to play even anymore".
> 
> So, do you want to say that "Master" might be AlphaGo?
> From the disucssion I thought that "Master" was a chinese bot.
> 
> If Aja is reading: can you enlighten us?
> 
> Cheers, Ingo.
> 
> Looks like we have an official answer in the affirmative
> https://twitter.com/demishassabis/status/816660463282954240 
> 
> 
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org 
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 
> 
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello guys,

what shall I say.

> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 04. Januar 2017 um 16:11 Uhr
> Von: Janzert 
> ...
> On 1/2/2017 7:05 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:
> > Hello Paweł, ...

 
> Looks like we have an official answer in the affirmative
> https://twitter.com/demishassabis/status/816660463282954240

This means that I lost my bet with Paweł.
He will get a nice meal in a nice restaurant from me
(probably during the European Go Congress 2017 in Oberhof).

Ingo.
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

[Jim O'Flaherty]

Tysvm for posting that!

I had predicted it was AlphaGo from the beginning. If there is a competitor
emerging, I think we would have seen some sort of publicity around it, if
not just to provoke a response with the AlphaGo team.


On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Janzert  wrote:

> On 1/2/2017 7:05 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:
>
>> Hello Paweł,
>>
>> There have been another 8 games on Foxwq server:
>>> ...
>>> Totally, 38-0. It looks like a kind, indirect (yet powerful), message
>>> from DeepMind to Chinese Go Association: "Please, let us try a real
>>> challenge, like 3-handicap games, it does not really make much sense
>>> to play even anymore".
>>>
>>
>> So, do you want to say that "Master" might be AlphaGo?
>> From the disucssion I thought that "Master" was a chinese bot.
>>
>> If Aja is reading: can you enlighten us?
>>
>> Cheers, Ingo.
>>
>
> Looks like we have an official answer in the affirmative
> https://twitter.com/demishassabis/status/816660463282954240
>
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

[Janzert]

On 1/2/2017 7:05 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:

Hello Paweł,


There have been another 8 games on Foxwq server:
...
Totally, 38-0. It looks like a kind, indirect (yet powerful), message
from DeepMind to Chinese Go Association: "Please, let us try a real
challenge, like 3-handicap games, it does not really make much sense
to play even anymore".


So, do you want to say that "Master" might be AlphaGo?
From the disucssion I thought that "Master" was a chinese bot.

If Aja is reading: can you enlighten us?

Cheers, Ingo.


Looks like we have an official answer in the affirmative
https://twitter.com/demishassabis/status/816660463282954240
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go