[Computer-go] Monte-Carlo Tree Search as Regularized Policy Optimization

2020-07-16 Thread Ray Tayek

https://old.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/hrzooh/r_montecarlo_tree_search_as_regularized_policy/


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[Computer-go] mit-develops-algorithm-to-accelerate-neural-networks-by-200x

2019-03-24 Thread Ray Tayek

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/288152-mit-develops-algorithm-to-accelerate-neural-networks-by-200x

i wonder how much this would speed up go programs?

thanks

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[Computer-go] has anyone got the code from "deep learning and the game of go" to work?

2019-02-09 Thread Ray Tayek
i am python challenged, has anyone had a any luck making the code 
 for 
the book 
 to work 
in windoze?


thanks

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[Computer-go] sgf file for recent handicap games of pros vs programs

2018-01-22 Thread Ray Tayek

is anyone collecting the sgf file for these games?

i get the stuff below when i try to download.

thanks


C:\Users\ray\Downloads>od -c FineArt_A-2hcp.sgf | head
000   P   K 003 004 024  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0   < 005   5 L  \0  \0
020  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0 017  \0  \0  \0 F   i
040   n   e   A   r   t   _   A   -   2   h   c   p   /   P K 003
060 004 024  \0  \0  \b  \b  \0   t 004   5   L   L   9   ] 233  \t
100 002  \0  \0 227 004  \0  \0   A  \0  \0  \0   F   i   n e   A
120   r   t   _   A   -   2   h   c   p   /   [   8   8   8 8   8
140   8   8   8   ]   v   s   [ 347 273 235 350 211 272 346 214 207
160 345 257 274   A   ]   1   5   1   6   0   7   2   2   0 8   0
200   1   0   0   0   1   1   6   2   .   s   g   f   E 222 315 216
220 323   0 024 205   _ 245   K 020 032 224 314   @ 325 241 253 026

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Re: [Computer-go] AI ryusei 2017 first day result

2017-12-09 Thread Ray Tayek

On 12/9/2017 1:36 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote:

Hi,

18 programs played swiss 7R, ...

15 programs will play tommorow tornament.

Thanks,
Hiroshi Yamashita



does anyone know if we can get some of the .sgf files?

thanks

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Re: [Computer-go] Learning related stuff

2017-11-29 Thread Ray Tayek

On 11/29/2017 6:15 PM, Dave Dyer wrote:


My question is this; people have been messing around with neural nets
and machine learning for 40 years; what was the breakthrough that made
alphago succeed so spectacularly.



maybe it was 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_gradient_problem#Residual_networks. 
they are pretty new i think. or some combination of things.


thanks

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Re: [Computer-go] Alphago Zero special circumstances

2017-10-23 Thread Ray Tayek

On 10/23/2017 11:29 AM, Dave Dyer wrote:


I wonder how alphago-0 treats the menagerie of special positions, such as
bent 4 in the corner, thousand year ko, rotating ko, etc.



they are using chinese rules, so bent four just gets played out. have no 
idea about strange ko's. there was a double ko in one of the games.


i looked at the 20 games that 0 played against master. there are a bunch 
of cases where the star point gets invaded very early in the game. 
sometimes by both players. and the direction that the opponent uses to 
block is counter intuitive. the older alphago made a lot of "kosumi 
approach" moves. this the same shape when invading the star point, so i 
thought that this was strange.


mr. yang's answer to this was that the corner is important/valuable.

maybe there a lot more to learn about the game.

thanks


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[Computer-go] AlphaGo watch parties planned across U.S.

2017-05-21 Thread Ray Tayek

http://www.usgo.org/news/2017/05/alphago-watch-parties-planned-across-u-s/

looks like 10:30 pm monday.

thanks

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Re: [Computer-go] Ke Jie vs. AlphaGo match

2017-05-20 Thread Ray Tayek

On 5/18/2017 11:52 PM, Xavier Combelle wrote:


Is it japanese tome zone?


looks to me like they are 15 hours ahead of us.

thanks




Le 19 mai 2017 05:41, "Hiroshi Yamashita" > a écrit :

Hi,

It will be played in a week.
But there are few information about this.
Is there YouTube live available?

I found a schedule in Panda-net site.

Ke Jie vs. AlphaGo  (3 hours + 1 minute x5)
Game1May 23   11:30-18:30
Game2May 25   11:30-18:30
Game3May 27   11:30-18:30

Pair Go  May 26   09:30-12:30
Team Go  May 26   13:30-19:30

Panda net (in Japanese)
http://www.pandanet.co.jp/event/fogs/

Exploring the mysteries of Go with AlphaGo and China's top players
https://deepmind.com/blog/exploring-mysteries-alphago/


Thanks,
Hiroshi Yamashita

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Re: [Computer-go] software like: http://ps.waltheri.net/

2017-05-05 Thread Ray Tayek

On 5/5/2017 5:38 PM, David Fotland wrote:

Many Faces of Go Fuseki tutor can do this, but I'd have to help if you want to 
start from an empty database. That's how I generate the tutor. You can add sgf 
files to the existing tutor pretty easily.

David

good. how can i add an sgf file to the existing tutor?

thanks


-Original Message-
From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of
Ray Tayek
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 4:24 PM
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Subject: [Computer-go] software like: http://ps.waltheri.net/

does anyone know of software that well eat a bunch of sgf games and produce
something like this web site? ...



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[Computer-go] software like: http://ps.waltheri.net/

2017-05-05 Thread Ray Tayek
does anyone know of software that well eat a bunch of sgf games and 
produce something like this web site?


thanks

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Re: [Computer-go] sgf files for world go championship games?

2017-03-24 Thread Ray Tayek

On 3/24/2017 9:55 AM, Ray Tayek wrote:

any one got a pointer to these? ...


thanks for all the links!

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[Computer-go] sgf files for world go championship games?

2017-03-24 Thread Ray Tayek

any one got a pointer to these?

thanks


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[Computer-go] world go championships starting in 2 hours

2017-03-20 Thread Ray Tayek

http://www.worldgochampionship.net/english/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iohS6jbLOoA

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv290122778


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[Computer-go] alpga go

2017-02-21 Thread Ray Tayek
about 3 hours and 13 minutes into this tensorflow video 
, 
there is some stuff about how alphgo works.


thanks

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[Computer-go] it's alphago

2017-01-04 Thread Ray Tayek

https://games.slashdot.org/story/17/01/04/2022236/googles-alphago-ai-secretively-won-more-than-50-straight-games-against-worlds-top-go-players


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Re: [Computer-go] Beginner question : how to choose a board representation

2016-04-10 Thread Ray Tayek

On 4/10/2016 12:19 AM, Jean-Francois Romang wrote:
Hello to everyone ; I'm a newcomer in this list and computer go 
programming. I have a chess programming background, but I want to 
start something new. :-)
I'm currently in the early phases of developing GTP compatible go 
engine ; now it's time for me to choose a board representation : are 
there some articles or tips on this ?


i've only fooled around with this a /little/, bit at the lowest level, 
but i would start with something like below.


i suspect there is a lot more stuff that can be precalculated for a 
particular board size.


thanks

public class Go {
enum Color {
black,white,vacant,edge; // edge can be useful
}
enum Direction {
n,s,e,w,ne,nw,se,sw
}
class Neighbors {
Neighbors(int width,int depth) {
this.width=width;
this.depth=depth;
this.size=(width+2)*(depth+2);
n=new int[size];
s=new int[size];
e=new int[size];
w=new int[size];
ne=new int[size];
nw=new int[size];
se=new int[size];
sw=new int[size];
// lots more init required, but it this is constant for any 
width and depth

}
final int width,depth,size;
int[] n,s,e,w,ne,nw,se,sw; // index of neighbor
}
class Board {
Board(Neighbors neighbors) {
this.neighbors=neighbors;
colors=new Color[neighbors.size];
}
final Color[] colors;
final Neighbors neighbors;
}
}

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Re: [Computer-go] Would a larger board (25x25) dramatically reduce AlphaGos skill?

2016-03-22 Thread Ray Tayek

On 3/22/2016 5:21 PM, Lukas van de Wiel wrote:
It would reduce Alphago, because there is less training material in 
the form of high-dan-games, to train the policy network.


It would also reduce the skill of a human opponent, because (s)he 
would have less experience on a larger board, just as AlphaGo.


It would be fun to see which can adapt better.


human would adapt quickly after a few games (say 10 or so).

thanks



On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Ray Tayek <rta...@ca.rr.com 
<mailto:rta...@ca.rr.com>> wrote:


On 3/22/2016 11:25 AM, Tom M wrote:

I suspect that even with a similarly large training sample for
initialization that AlphaGo would suffer a major reduction in
apparent
skill level.

i think a human would also.

   The CNN would require many more layers of convolution;
the valuation of positions would be much more uncertain; play
in the
corner, edges, and center would all be more complicated
patterns, and
there would be far more good candidates to consider at each
ply and
rollouts would be much less stable and less accurate.

yes.

the normal board size is 19x19 because the amount of territory in
the sides and corners is slightly larger than the amount of
territory in the middle.

thanks

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Re: [Computer-go] Would a larger board (25x25) dramatically reduce AlphaGos skill?

2016-03-22 Thread Ray Tayek

On 3/22/2016 11:25 AM, Tom M wrote:

I suspect that even with a similarly large training sample for
initialization that AlphaGo would suffer a major reduction in apparent
skill level.

i think a human would also.

   The CNN would require many more layers of convolution;
the valuation of positions would be much more uncertain; play in the
corner, edges, and center would all be more complicated patterns, and
there would be far more good candidates to consider at each ply and
rollouts would be much less stable and less accurate.

yes.

the normal board size is 19x19 because the amount of territory in the 
sides and corners is slightly larger than the amount of territory in the 
middle.


thanks

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[Computer-go] mf 12 & igs

2016-02-17 Thread Ray Tayek

done
rtayek5 (W:O): 87.5 to Littlewolf (B:#): 96.0
game completed.
Removed game file rtayek5-Littlewolf from database.
Game rtayek5-Littlewolf-18-09-25 mailed
*Littlewolf*: Thx.(by Go Bible Android client)

mf 12 says:

White has:
74 surrounded points (marked)
13 prisoners
  6.5 points komi
93 1/2 points total

Black has:
90 surrounded points (marked)
6 prisoners
96 points total

there's a: KM[6.5] i the .sgf file.
seems like igs did not give me the komi or somethings.

does anyone know what's going on here?

thanks

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rtayek5-Littlewolf.sgf
Description: application/go-sgf
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Re: [Computer-go] Go Aesthetics

2016-01-12 Thread Ray Tayek

On 1/11/2016 7:10 PM, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira wrote:
Hi, some time back I mentioned creating a program that evaluates the 
aesthetics of a game of Go. Has anyone given it some thought? I'd love 
to have a comparison between professional and amateur dan matches,

 ...

shape  should be a candidiate. it's 
frequency in a game should correspond to rank.


thanks

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Re: [Computer-go] gtp question - can black make 2 moves in a row.

2015-09-06 Thread Ray Tayek

On 9/6/2015 12:03 AM, Hellwig Geisse wrote:

On Sa, 2015-09-05 at 23:51 -0700, Ray Tayek wrote:

i am guessing that the client should make the moves if he gets them.

does anyone know for sure?

 From the GTP specification, page 18, 6.3.3 Core Play Commands:

"play:
[...]
Consecutive moves of the same color are not considered illegal
from the protocol point of view.


thanks for the confirmation.

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[Computer-go] gtp question - can black make 2 moves in a row.

2015-09-06 Thread Ray Tayek

i am guessing that the client should make the moves if he gets them.

does anyone know for sure?

thanks

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Re: [Computer-go] Determining the final board state for finished games

2015-07-26 Thread Ray Tayek

On 7/25/2015 8:57 PM, Rafael Sakurai wrote:

... I'm also new with computer Go, and I have the same doubt. ...

Hi Justin, I started to draft a Go API in Java, the goal is to create 
an API with the main game logic and anyone can use with their own 
visual interface ...


Please, let me know if this project is of interest to you .. 
https://github.com/rafaelsakurai/GoAPI/



i had an api and code for humans playing. it looked similar to yours.

i recently added some features to play different board shapes and 
topologies.


if you want to be able to edit games and look at variations, then the 
data structure that you end up with is a binary tree of sgf nodes (or 
something very similar).


if you want to play with another program or write a go server, then you 
need to talk gtp or go modem protcol. these api's were very different 
than my original api.


thanks


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Re: [Computer-go] gtp question for topological go program

2015-06-08 Thread Ray Tayek

On 6/8/2015 12:58 PM, Xavier Combelle wrote:
It's not clear why you would want that your engine have control on 
communication. Can you explain your use case ?


our main use case is: two humans at different locations with my program 
want to play each other over a socket. seems like one has to be active.


the passive client has a thread that reads a socket and executes 
commands. if this program were to send a command through the socket, 
then the other side's response to the command would be read as a command.


thanks

2015-06-08 7:28 GMT+02:00 Ray Tayek rta...@ca.rr.com 
mailto:rta...@ca.rr.com:


hi, still implementing gtp for my topological go program. it sorta
works with gogui.

looking at the gnugo implementation, it seems all passive in that
it simply reacts to commands.

so it looks like one side (or some other controller) has to be the
passive side and react to the commands (like gnugo), and one side
need to be active to do the setup and issue genmove commands (like
gogui).

currently my program waits for the player to move before sending
it's repsonse (the move) back. looks like gogui uses something
called: runLengthyCommand() for this. and some complicated code.

is there any documentation on how to be the active side of gtp?

is it possible for both sides to issue commands?
...



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Re: [Computer-go] gtp question for topological go program

2015-06-08 Thread Ray Tayek

On 6/8/2015 8:52 PM, Xavier Combelle wrote:
I think for this purpose stick with gtp protocol would be an handicap 
more than a bless
it looks that way, but i want to have the program work against other 
engines when it is playing normal go.


I think a simple protocol like this (loosely adapted from gtp would 
fit) ...  # Rules negotiation ...
i could do this (i think). but i would need 2 sockets since on is 
blocked on reading gtp commands.
Actually the gtp protocol could be used with one player as the master 
and the other as an engine but it would let you less flexibility and


would not illustrate well that both player are not in a strictly slave 
master relation but more a pair to pair relation


During the negotiations phase, both player could simultaneously send 
the same command in this case both would agree and it's not a problem

i may try something like this later.

thanks


2015-06-09 4:25 GMT+02:00 Ray Tayek rta...@ca.rr.com 
mailto:rta...@ca.rr.com:


On 6/8/2015 12:58 PM, Xavier Combelle wrote:

It's not clear why you would want that your engine have control
on communication. Can you explain your use case ?


our main use case is: two humans at different locations with my
program want to play each other over a socket. seems like one has
to be active.

the passive client has a thread that reads a socket and executes
commands. if this program were to send a command through the
socket, then the other side's response to the command would be
read as a command.

thanks


2015-06-08 7:28 GMT+02:00 Ray Tayek rta...@ca.rr.com
mailto:rta...@ca.rr.com:

hi, still implementing gtp for my topological go program. it
sorta works with gogui.

looking at the gnugo implementation, it seems all passive in
that it simply reacts to commands.

so it looks like one side (or some other controller) has to
be the passive side and react to the commands (like gnugo),
and one side need to be active to do the setup and issue
genmove commands (like gogui).

currently my program waits for the player to move before
sending it's repsonse (the move) back. looks like gogui uses
something called: runLengthyCommand() for this. and some
complicated code.

is there any documentation on how to be the active side of gtp?

is it possible for both sides to issue commands?
  ...



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[Computer-go] gtp question for topological go program

2015-06-07 Thread Ray Tayek
hi, still implementing gtp for my topological go program. it sorta works 
with gogui.


looking at the gnugo implementation, it seems all passive in that it 
simply reacts to commands.


so it looks like one side (or some other controller) has to be the 
passive side and react to the commands (like gnugo), and one side need 
to be active to do the setup and issue genmove commands (like gogui).


currently my program waits for the player to move before sending it's 
repsonse (the move) back. looks like gogui uses something called: 
runLengthyCommand() for this. and some complicated code.


is there any documentation on how to be the active side of gtp?

is it possible for both sides to issue commands?

any pointers will be appreciated.

thanks

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Re: [Computer-go] topological go gtp

2015-05-13 Thread Ray Tayek

On 5/7/2015 9:22 AM, Ray Tayek wrote:
hi, i am writing a go program in java that will let you play on a 
torus like little golem 
http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1707145 and on a 
board with holes in it. ...


i have gogui hooked up to gnugo and i have the source for gogui. i also 
have some old source for orego.


has anyone implemented gtp recently?

am i getting into a can of worms or is it straight forward?

thanks


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[Computer-go] topological go gtp

2015-05-07 Thread Ray Tayek
hi, i am writing a go program in java that will let you play on a torus 
like little golem 
http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1707145 and on a 
board with holes in it.


i need to be able to somehow play with someone over the net.

so i guess i need a version of gtp in java.

i think there is one in orego and a few other places.

does anyone have any recommendations?

thanks

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Re: [Computer-go] topological go gtp

2015-05-07 Thread Ray Tayek

On 5/7/2015 9:50 AM, Ingo Althöfer wrote:

... an emergency proposal for the case that you will not find a
playing partner.
it's just for a fellow go player who wants to play with someone as is 
not happy with the sgf editors out there.

If you have a torus with say 19x19 cells (and
no holes), you may set komi = 0.5 and play mirror go. So, the
artificial partner begins with an arbitrary first move x,
and then mirrors the moves of your bot with respect
to cell x.

interesting. i will try that the next time i play him.

PS. Mirror go against MCTS bots shows multiple semeais
in many games. So, you will likely see how your programs
acts in such difficult situations.
this program was not intended to play go, just to let a human play and 
edit sgf files on donuts with extra holes.


thanks

*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 07. Mai 2015 um 18:22 Uhr
*Von:* Ray Tayek rta...@ca.rr.com
*An:* computer-go@computer-go.org
*Betreff:* [Computer-go] topological go  gtp
hi, i am writing a go program in java that will let you play on a 
torus like little golem 
http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1707145 and on a 
board with holes in it.


i need to be able to somehow play with someone over the net.

so i guess i need a version of gtp in java.

i think there is one in orego and a few other places.

does anyone have any recommendations? ...

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[Computer-go] RR[Normal] in sgf file

2015-04-21 Thread Ray Tayek
hi, working on an sgf editor which seemed to be in good shape as it 
reads a lot of sgf files.


but i downloaded a game i played on igs recently through their social 
net thing and it has: an RR[Normal] in it (please see below). i can't 
find an RR at red bean http://www.red-bean.com/sgf/.


does anyone know what this means?

thanks

(;
GM[1]FF[4]VW[]AP[Many Faces of Go:12.022]
SZ[19]
HA[0]
ST[0]
PB[rtayek4]
PW[DSB]
DT[2015-04-16]
PC[IGS:  igs.joyjoy.net 6969]
KM[0.5]
TM[5400]
RE[B+Resign]
US[Brought to you by IGS PANDANET]
EV[Internet Go Server game: DSB vs rtayek4]
GN[DSB-rtayek4(B) IGS]
CP[
  Copyright (c) PANDANET Inc. 2015
  Permission to reproduce this game is given, provided proper credit is 
given.

  No warrantee, implied or explicit, is understood.
  Use of this game is an understanding and agreement of this notice.
]
BR[4d ]
WR[4d+]
RR[Normal];B[qd]BL[5397]
C[
 DSB 4d+: Howdy
 DSB 4d+: Hi!]
;W[oq]WL[5349];B[dc]BL[5392]
;W[oc]WL[5310];B[co]BL[5389];W[jj]WL[5297];B[de]BL[5312];W[dq]WL[5277]
;B[ld]BL[5283];W[of]WL[5272];B[qg]BL[5278];W[jd]WL[5220];B[lf]BL[5262]
;W[oh]WL[5199];B[qi]BL[5224];W[li]WL[5134];B[jf]BL[5209];W[gc]WL[5020]
;B[jc]BL[5104];W[ic]WL[4992];B[kc]BL[5072];W[id]WL[4909];B[mc]BL[5051]
;W[pe]WL[4877];B[qe]BL[5009];W[hf]WL[4821];B[po]BL[4995];W[qp]WL[4818]
;B[qo]BL[4993];W[rp]WL[4810];B[ro]BL[4990];W[pk]WL[4759];B[no]BL[4944]
;W[op]WL[4739];B[oo]BL[4927];W[lp]WL[4722];B[nl]BL[4909];W[nk]WL[4713]
;B[ol]BL[4903];W[ok]WL[4710];B[ep]BL[4901];W[dp]WL[4693];B[do]BL[4899]
;W[eo]WL[4691];B[fp]BL[4893];W[en]WL[4689];B[bq]BL[4886];W[fr]WL[4683]
;B[gq]BL[4882];W[gr]WL[4675];B[iq]BL[4867];W[hq]WL[4649];B[hp]BL[4861]
;W[hr]WL[4647];B[jp]BL[4841];W[kq]WL[4627];B[ir]BL[4833];W[cr]WL[4610]
;B[br]BL[4825];W[fq]WL[4565];B[gp]BL[4820];W[es]WL[4561];B[eq]BL[4808]
;W[er]WL[4523];B[cq]BL[4804];W[cm]WL[4509];B[cs]BL[4773];W[dr]WL[4503]
;B[hm]BL[4720];W[bn]WL[4499];B[bo]BL[4717];W[ln]WL[4477];B[mq]BL[4676]
;W[jr]WL[4453];B[is]BL[4673];W[mp]WL[4408];B[np]BL[4670];W[nq]WL[4406]
;B[ql]BL[4622];W[qk]WL[4396];B[rl]BL[4615];W[rk]WL[4389];B[pp]BL[4592]
;W[pq]WL[4386];B[sp]BL[4592];W[rq]WL[4379];B[ll]BL[4539];W[mm]WL[4321]
;B[ml]BL[4526];W[jn]WL[4318];B[lj]BL[4477];W[ki]WL[4251];B[mj]BL[4463]
;W[ni]WL[4247];B[jk]BL[4455];W[io]WL[4244];B[ip]BL[4453];W[hn]WL[4242]
;B[ij]BL[4418];W[ik]WL[4238];B[kj]BL[4406];W[ji]WL[4236];B[jl]BL[4405]
;W[hl]WL[4173];B[ch]BL[4377];W[cj]WL[4147];B[eh]BL[4374];W[cg]WL[4101]
;B[cf]BL[4358];W[dg]WL[4089];B[bg]BL[4354];W[dh]WL[4087];B[ci]BL[4351]
;W[di]WL[4086];B[bj]BL[4347];W[bi]WL[4064];B[bh]BL[4345];W[bk]WL[4063]
;B[ai]BL[4344];W[dk]WL[4061];B[ig]BL[4342];W[mg]WL[4046];B[hg]BL[4325]
;W[gf]WL[4031];B[gg]BL[4306];W[ke]WL[4026];B[le]BL[4299];W[kf]WL[4024]
;B[nb]BL[4267];W[ob]WL[3994];B[ne]BL[4262];W[pd]WL[3972];B[hj]BL[4241]
;W[gl]WL[3964];B[kg]BL[4235];W[lg]WL[3962];B[ff]BL[4229];W[fe]WL[3795]
;B[ef]BL[4227];W[lb]WL[3793];B[kb]BL[4194];W[mb]WL[3765];B[nc]BL[4192]
;W[na]WL[3763];B[od]BL[4164];W[oe]WL[3675];B[nd]BL[4159];W[qc]WL[3672]
;B[ka]BL[4138];W[ma]WL[3653];B[pg]BL[4130];W[rc]WL[3622];B[og]BL[4111]
;W[ng]WL[3524];B[pi]BL[4089];W[oi]WL[3461];B[ib]BL[4074];W[hb]WL[3458]
;B[ia]BL[4072];W[rf]WL[3446];B[fb]BL[4064];W[fc]WL[3431];B[rj]BL[4041]
;W[sk]WL[3422];B[qf]BL[4024];W[rh]WL[3376];B[gb]BL[3985];W[eb]WL[3262]
;B[ha]BL[3978];W[ee]WL[3121];B[df]BL[3959];W[ed]WL[3084];B[gd]BL[3933]
;W[hd]WL[3022];B[db]BL[3899];W[if]WL[3013];B[rd]BL[3865];W[ri]WL[3000]
;B[qj]BL[3854];W[sj]WL[2993];B[rg]BL[3853];W[nf]WL[2941];B[jg]BL[3776]
;W[je]WL[2904];B[lc]BL[3765];W[mk]WL[2843];B[lk]BL[3761];W[km]WL[2841]
;B[kl]BL[3757];W[pl]WL[2834];B[pm]BL[3753];W[qm]WL[2824];B[nm]BL[3727]
;W[rm]WL[2769];B[mn]BL[3719];W[lm]WL[2766];B[qn]BL[3704];W[gi]WL[2711]
;B[gh]BL[3694];W[hi]WL[2704];B[ej]BL[3657])

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[Computer-go] A Data-Driven Exploration of the Evolution of Chess

2015-04-10 Thread Ray Tayek

http://games.slashdot.org/story/15/04/09/2228218/a-data-driven-exploration-of-the-evolution-of-chess

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Re: [Computer-go] implementing simple ko

2015-03-16 Thread Ray Tayek

On 3/12/2015 9:49 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote:

...

i need to implement a simple ko rule.


I wrote simple pure-MC and UCT sample.
http://www.yss-aya.com/puremc20150313e.zip
put() function handles a simple ko.


got it.

thanks

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Re: [Computer-go] implementing simple ko

2015-03-16 Thread Ray Tayek



On 3/12/2015 6:16 AM, Robert Jasiek wrote:

On 12.03.2015 06:07, Ray Tayek wrote:

i need to implement a simple ko rule.


Supposing you want a strategically simple AND complete ko ruleset, you 
can choose from:


1) short cycle loss (2 or 3 successive plays, see below) + long cycle 
tie ko rule


2) basic ko rule + fixed ko rule (recreating a same position is 
allowed but then a different play must be made)


If you do not search for a complete ko ruleset but for a practically 
easily implemented and feasible:


3) basic ko rule + 3-play-loss (for the player playing to recreate the 
position)


Note that none of these are used by go servers or in the real world. ...


nice summary.

thanks

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Re: [Computer-go] Tromp Taylor rules http://senseis.xmp.net/?LogicalRules

2015-03-11 Thread Ray Tayek



On 3/11/2015 4:08 AM, folkert wrote:

... After 3 years of not working on my Go software, ...
First thing I noticed is that it is very slow.  ...
you may want to look at how orego 
https://sites.google.com/a/lclark.edu/drake/research/orego does 
things, you can find it on github https://github.com/Orego/Orego.

So I'm considering rewriting things. ...

i have some code that i have been rewriting a few times.

I read back in the archives of this mailinglist and I read about the
Tromp/Taylor rules. If I implement those, will I really have a program
that plays valid Go and can participate in CGOS maybe even KGS one day?
Because things like KO and suicide etc are missing?
i am missing ko and generalized ko also. i thought chinese rules allowed 
suicide?


my equipment (stone, board, block, etc.) are in java 8.

i am fooling around with this again because a go player i know wants to 
play on unusual boards http://senseis.xmp.net/?UnusualGobans with 
unusual topologies (cylinder, torus) and boards with holes 
http://senseis.xmp.net/?ProgrammersGoban.



thanks






thanks

Folkert van Heusden



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[Computer-go] sgf reader/editor/write in java?

2015-03-11 Thread Ray Tayek

hi, i need a java program that lets me read, write and edit an sgf file.



thanks

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[Computer-go] implementing simple ko

2015-03-11 Thread Ray Tayek

i need to implement a simple ko rule.

looks like you need to keep track of 2 points for each ko and who took 
it last. so it looks like a list of (point,point,who) that can change 
each turn?


any pointers will be appreciated.

thanks

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Re: [Computer-go] sgf reader/editor/write in java?

2015-03-11 Thread Ray Tayek



On 3/11/2015 6:40 PM, Dave Dyer wrote:

Read and Write is easy, I have some classes I use for all my games
that I've distributed several times.

please send me a copy.

can it read that big joseki dictionary?

Edit implies a full gui, which is a little more complicated.  I have
a fairly primitive board widget I've distributed in the past.

i am working on a gui, but send me the board widget please.

If your goal is a fully featured go gui, with replay and review
capabilities, you could start with Jago.

i need this to work on screwy boards, so i probably have to roll my own.

With about 10 minutes work, you could convert the hex board for
boardspace.net to a go board.   The advantage of this approach
is that you'd automatically have a pretty functional editing
package.


i'll take all you got.

thanks

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Re: [computer-go] IGS?

2009-09-05 Thread Ray Tayek

At 12:29 PM 9/5/2009, you wrote:

...
this tuesday i'm going to bring a visit to the local Go-club to get them
to teach me how to really play Go, beyond placing stones on the board
following the most basic rules.


please allow me to suggest that you start playing on small boards. 
there is a nice free program for windows here: 
http://www.smart-games.com/igowin.html.


also, after you have been playing for a while on large boards: 
http://www.slateandshell.com/SSYY006 id excellent.


thanks

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[computer-go] Fwd: Cotsen Go Tournament 2009

2009-07-21 Thread Ray Tayek



X-Cloudmark-Score: 0
X-RR-Connecting-IP: 205.178.146.65
X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=C4v/ZMOA4qtYH1lHA7UZjA==:17 
a=cU7zCnic:8 a=zyR4pCUn:8 a=pykkHMQbfmE35MBUPzAA:9 
a=-RzIqdY0jXT7c2Uhn8EA:7 a=woLhyhkLnKWqYCQWF-kjyS9XCCgA:4 
a=MT1dNXXSkG4A:10 a=81mRD-bMRAsA:10 a=ipLnR88f3p0A:10 
a=Zs10g0xbAyIA:10 a=H1MrzukLTs0A:10 a=MQE5DOroIqLwfFqa:21 
a=WgFsc2FLtzFNNwiG:21 a=iHPJaJUEiPF5fIHajYYA:9 a=8YKqIsQm3qnWrrYsv9CSopJrTqwA:4

From: Casie Rizer ca...@thelec.com
To: 'Casie Rizer' ca...@thelec.com
Subject: Cotsen Go Tournament 2009
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:58:20 -0700
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510
Thread-Index: AcoKY2vEEVXZLcnKS1OKv6m0kMNHBwAAN9Pg
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 6C27930A28AF4448A7C2020D8FE25195640C3600


2009 COTSEN GO TOURNAMENT

Sponsored By Lloyd Eric Cotsen with The American Go Association

Over $5,000 in prizes!!!

WHAT:The Cotsen Open, 6 Dan and up, Cotsen Handicap Tournament, open to
all ranks, except as noted to the left.
   All games will be AGA rated, and will be run under the ING Go
Rules.

WHEN: Saturday and Sunday, September 19  20, 2009

WHERE:  Los Angeles Center Studios
   Detailed driving and parking directions will be sent out in
the next couple of weeks as we are still negotiating for the best parking
spots and price.


SaturdaySept. 19, 2009  Sunday  Sept. 20, 2009
8:00 AM to 9:30 AM  Registration8:00 AM Pro Game (
analysis)
9:30 AM to 10:00 AM Rules Discussion10:30 AM
Registration
10:00 AM
12:00 PMFirst Game
Lunch Break 12:00 PM
1:30 PM Fourth Game
Lunch Break
1:00 PM Second Game 2:30 PM Final Game
3:00 PM Third Game  5:00 PM Awards Ceremony

CHECK OUT THESE COOL UNIQUE FEATURES:

*   The AGA one time rating fee will be paid for all players who do
not currently have an AGA membership.

*   Prizes will be available for those who can solve certain Go
problems.

*   Professional Go Players Yi-Lun Yang and others will review and
comment on your games.

*   Pro Game over the internet between Yi-Lun Yang (Pro 7 Dan) and
another Pro.

*   Beginners and children are especially welcome, so don't be afraid to
come and play. Bring your kids, friends,relatives and acquaintances!!!


*   FREE LUXURY BUFFET BOTH DAYS - but only for those who pre-register


*   While you toil away at your games two masseuses will be making the
rounds to ease the tensions that arise in your shoulders (when you discover
that your big group really doesn't have two eyes.)

*   Dividends of $1,500 will be awarded to the 1st, 2nd  3rd place Go
clubs that have the most pointsoverall in the tournament (8 points
for every 1st place finish, 4 points for 2nd, and 2 points for 3rd and 1
point for each player entered). Sandbaggers will be drawn and
quartered!
$1,000 for 1st Place  $300 for 2nd Place
$200 for 3rd Place

* The more support (players) a club receives increases their chance in
winning the above prizes.

ALL ENTRY FEES ARE FULLY REFUNDED SUNDAY AFTERNOON, IF YOU PRE-REGISTER!!!
Refunds are the reward for attending BOTH days and will ONLY be given out to
the depositor in person.
If you register the day of the event, you will be refunded $15 out of the
$25

ALL INFORMATION MUST BE RECEIVED BY SEPTEMBER 11th, 2009 TO BE CONSIDERED
PRE-REGISTERED



PLEASE BRING YOUR OWN CLOCK IF POSSIBLE AS WE MAY BE SHORT

ONLY those people who pre-register will qualify for the free luxury buffet 
full cash refund

Cotsen Open $20 with Pre-Registration, $25 on day of Registration   -
Cotsen Handicap $20 with Pre-Registration, $25 on day of Registration

If you are already an AGA member, write your AGA number here:

Please Enclose $20

Full Name:

Address:City:   State, Zip:

Phone Number:   E-mail address:

Rank you wish to play at:   *Go club affiliation/support:


**Comments:



Make checks payable to AGA Cotsen Open
and mail to:
1880 Veteran Avenue, #310, Los Angeles, CA 90025OR if you would
prefer, you may pay at the tournament on Sept. 19, 2009.  Please check here
 if you wish to pay at the tournament
Mail completed form to address on the left

Questions: (310) 473-5873   E-mail: gotournam...@thelec.com


If you would like to register via e-mail please fill in the above form and
send to ca...@thelec.com or gotournam...@thelec.com before September 11,
2009.  We will consider you pre-registered and will collect your $20 entry
fee on September 19, 2009 at the tournament.


*If you know very few members from your Go Club will be attending, you may
support another Go Club to assist them in winning the Go club prize.  YOU DO
NOT NEED TO BE MEMBER OF A SPECIFIC GO CLUB TO SUPPORT A GO CLUB.
** We have incorporated computers into the tournament and you may be matched
with a computer program. If you object to this, please add a 

[computer-go] 11'th Annual Malibu Go Party

2009-07-05 Thread Ray Tayek

please join us for an afternoon of surf, sand, and go.

saturday, august 22'nd 2009, from 11 a.m. to 6 p.m or so, at 26918 
malibu cove colony drive 
(http://maps.google.com/maps?f=qsource=s_qhl=engeocode=q=26918+malibu+cove+colony+drive,+malibu+californiasll=33.8565,-118.148904sspn=0.007431,0.017059ie=UTF8ll=34.027428,-118.75886spn=0.007416,0.017059z=16iwloc=A)


this is a custom house on the beach with pool and jacuzzi, so bring 
bathing suits.


please bring a 6-pack of whatever you like to drink.

please bring a go board and stones if you have one that can travel.

partners and well behaved children are welcome (partners sometimes 
play other games or walk on beach).


if you have a favorite dish that you like to make, please do so and bring it.

the usual dogs and burgers will be provided.

please rsvp to *me* (not eric) so we can get a head count. if you 
need directions, please email me or call me at (562) 272-8556.


check in at the guard station and tell them that you are going to 
eric cotsen's go party.


thanks


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Re: [computer-go] Results of recent Computer Go events

2008-09-29 Thread Ray Tayek

At 07:27 AM 9/28/2008, you wrote:
Does anyone have any information on the results of [the computer Go 
aspects of] these events?


Cotsen go tournament 2008


mr. kim played mogo again. this time he won with 7 stones. don't know 
where a game record is.


thanks

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Re: OT: Teaching Go (was Re: [computer-go] Re: Disputes under Japanese rules)

2008-09-18 Thread Ray Tayek

At 09:14 PM 9/17/2008, you wrote:
... . I want to  be able to give a tiny set of rules and then let 
players loose to

discover things on their own.


i have had good luck with just explaining capure by surrounding and 
starting with 9 handicap stones on a 9x9 board (you can't win and 
that's a good thing).  remove one handicap stone each time they win. 
you can explain things as they show up in the games (two eyes, ko, 
seki, etc). you can play many games in an hour, usually getting the 
handicap down to 3 or 4. this works surprisingly well.


thanks

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Re: [computer-go] Disputes under Japanese rules

2008-09-15 Thread Ray Tayek

At 04:06 PM 9/15/2008, you wrote:

I've asked this question of a couple of people and got different
answers, so I thought I'd check here.

Suppose, under Japanese rules, I throw a (hopeless) stone into your
territory. I keep passing until you've actually removed it (playing
four stones inside your own territory, thus losing a net three
points). If you try to pass as well, I stubbornly insist that the
stone is alive, thus restarting the game.

What prevents this sort of abuse?


iirc, if you can demonstrate that the stone is dead, then you do not 
have to actually capture it. this probably works ok except in strange 
cases like http://gobase.org/online/intergo/?query=%22mannen%20ko%22 
and http://gobase.org/online/intergo/?query=%22itte%20yose%20ko%22 
where one can argue about it or get confused.


thanks


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[computer-go] Fwd: 2008 Cotsen Go Tournament

2008-08-14 Thread Ray Tayek

if you enter a program, make a note on the entry forn that you are doing so.

thankj


From: Casie Rizer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Casie Rizer' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: 2008 Cotsen Go Tournament
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:02:32 -0700

2008 COTSEN GO TOURNAMENT

Sponsored By Lloyd Eric Cotsen with The American Go Association

Over $5,000 in prizes!!!

WHAT:The Cotsen Open, 6 Dan and up, Cotsen Handicap Tournament, open to
all ranks, except as noted to the left.
   All games will be AGA rated, and will be run under the ING Go
Rules.

WHEN: Saturday and Sunday, September 20  21, 2008

WHERE:  UCLA Bradley International Hall
   Detailed driving and parking directions will be sent out in
the next couple of weeks as we are still negotiating for
the best parking spots and price.


SaturdaySept. 20, 2008  Sunday  Sept. 11, 2007
8:00 AM to 9:30 AM  Registration8:00 AM Pro Game (
analysis)
9:30 AM to 10:00 AM Rules Discussion10:30 AM
Registration
10:00 AM
12:00 PMFirst Game
Lunch Break 12:00 PM
1:30 PM Fourth Game
Lunch Break
1:00 PM Second Game 2:30 PM Final Game
3:00 PM Third Game  5:00 PM Awards Ceremony

CHECK OUT THESE COOL UNIQUE FEATURES:

*   The AGA one time rating fee will be paid for all players who do
not currently have an AGA membership.

*   Prizes will be available for those who can solve certain Go
problems.

*   Professional Go Players Yi-Lun Yang and others will review and
comment on your games.

*   Pro Game over the internet between Yi-Lun Yang (Pro 7 Dan) and
another Pro.

*   Beginners and children are especially welcome, so don't be afraid to
come and play. Bring your kids, friends,relatives and acquaintances!!!


*   FREE LUXURY BUFFET BOTH DAYS - but only for those who pre-register


*   While you toil away at your games two masseuses will be making the
rounds to ease the tensions that arise in your shoulders (when you
discover that your big group really doesn't have two eyes.)

*   Dividends of $1,500 will be awarded to the 1st, 2nd  3rd place Go
clubs that have the most pointsoverall in the tournament (8 points
for every 1st place finish, 4 points for 2nd, and 2 points for 3rd and 1
point for each player entered). Sandbaggers will be drawn and
quartered!
$1,000 for 1st Place $300 for 2nd Place
$200 for 3rd Place

* The more support (players) a club receives increases their chance in
winning the above prizes.

ALL ENTRY FEES ARE FULLY REFUNDED SUNDAY AFTERNOON, IF YOU PRE-REGISTER!!!
Refunds are the reward for attending BOTH days and will ONLY be given out to
the depositor in person.
If you register the day of the event, you will be refunded $15 out of the
$25

ALL INFORMATION MUST BE RECEIVED BY SEPTEMBER 12th, 2008 TO BE CONSIDERED
PRE-REGISTERED



PLEASE BRING YOUR OWN CLOCK IF POSSIBLE AS WE MAY BE SHORT

ONLY those people who pre-register will qualify for the free luxury buffet 
full cash refund

Cotsen Open $20 with Pre-Registration, $25 on day of Registration   -
Cotsen Handicap $20 with Pre-Registration, $25 on day of Registration

If you are already an AGA member, write your AGA number here:

Please Enclose $20

Full Name:

Address:City:   State, Zip:

Phone Number:   E-mail address:

Rank you wish to play at:   *Go club affiliation/support:


**Comments:



Make checks payable to AGA Cotsen Open
and mail to:
1880 Veteran Avenue, #310, Los Angeles, CA 90025OR if you would
prefer, you may pay at the tournament on Nov. 10, 2007.  Please check here
 if you wish to pay at the tournament
Mail completed form to address on the left

Questions: (310) 473-5873   E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


If you would like to register via e-mail please fill in the above form and
send to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] before September 12,
2008.  We will consider you pre-registered and will collect your $20 entry
fee on September 20, 2008 at the tournament.


*If you know very few members from your Go Club will be attending, you may
support another Go Club to assist them in winning the Go club prize.  YOU DO
NOT NEED TO BE MEMBER OF A SPECIFIC GO CLUB TO SUPPORT A GO CLUB.
** We have incorporated computers into the tournament and you may be matched
with a computer program. If you object to this, please add a note under the
comments section of your registration form


You may also visit www.cotsengotournament.com for 2007 tournament
information.  We are in the process of updating the website for the 2008
tournament so please check back soon for more information about this years
tournament.  Thank you Shawn Blue for setting this site up :-)






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Re: [computer-go] Re: mogo beats pro!

2008-08-10 Thread Ray Tayek

At 01:50 AM 8/10/2008, you wrote:

Yeah, I am really on a roll ... ...

On 9, Aug 2008, at 9:34 PM, terry mcintyre wrote:


I was present; David Doshay said that in ten years, it would be
reasonable to expect computers to play even games with pros.


david d, do you *really* think that they will play even with pros?

i am guessing more like amateur 1-dan.

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Re: [computer-go] sgf standard

2008-08-04 Thread Ray Tayek

At 01:58 PM 7/29/2008, you wrote:

... had a burst of activity
related to the addition of new properties to the standard.

The properties relate to the representation of common subtrees.


i just dusted off an old sgf parser/merger in java. i can eat the 
example file ok.


where are the new properties listed?

are there any example?

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Re: [computer-go] Java SGF Parser

2008-08-03 Thread Ray Tayek

At 05:55 PM 8/3/2008, you wrote:
I'm looking for a nice Java SGF library that allows you to parse SGF 
files into a simple tree, and to serialize your own tree back to SGF. ...


i wrote one in java a few years ago. iirc, i based it on gnugo's 
parser. i was trying to compile annotations from previous instances 
of a and sgf file to a later version, that had more moves, but was 
missing some of the annotations. if you have any interest, let me 
know and i will send you a zip.


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Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

2008-07-28 Thread Ray Tayek

At 12:43 AM 7/28/2008, you wrote:

2008/7/28 Ray Tayek mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 07:53 PM 7/27/2008, you wrote:
The traditional programs are around 10 kyu, but the new ones are 2 
to 4 kyu,...

wow. that's impressive. can one buy these or just play the on kgs?


You can download for free an old version of MoGo (which reached 2k 
on KGS on a 4 CPU machine) at:


http://www.lri.fr/~gelly/MoGo_Download.htmhttp://www.lri.fr/~gelly/MoGo_Download.htm


the exe just sits there. iirc, i need some sort of gui ? can you tell 
me what that is?


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[computer-go] cotsen open will be on september 20-21'st

2008-07-11 Thread Ray Tayek
The dates for the Cotsen Go Tournament have been decided. The 
tournament will be held on September 20 and 21 at the Tom Bradley 
International Hall on the UCLA campus. This is the same location 
where the Toyota Denso North American Oza was held this past January.


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RE: [computer-go] My experience with Linux

2008-04-09 Thread Ray Tayek

At 09:11 AM 4/9/2008, you wrote:

...
Does Linux have a decent development environment yet?  After using 
Visual studio, it would be a horrible loss of productivity  to go 
back to vi/make/gdb. ..


eclipse has the cdt http://www.eclipse.org/cdt/ and there are some 
unit testing packages.


thanks



Since I sell software, building Linux apps is out of the question, 
since Linux users will insist that  I give them my work for free.


maybe not. i use a lot of free as in speech software, but i don't 
have any problem paying for a vertical app like many faces.


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Re: [computer-go] Difficult and strong move

2008-01-08 Thread Ray Tayek

At 10:03 AM 1/8/2008, you wrote:

- Original Message 
From: Stuart A. Yeates [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I recommend  Mathematical Go: Chilling Gets the Last Point by 
Elwyn  ... 
http://math.berkeley.edu/%7Eberlek/cgt/gobook.htmlhttp://math.berkeley.edu/~berlek/cgt/gobook.html


Most interesting! Has anyone implemented these methods for endgame 
analysis in a computer program?


iirc, the value these moves are just *one* point. maybe not so 
valuable in actual play.


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Re: [computer-go] Re: Euler numbers

2007-12-02 Thread Ray Tayek

At 10:19 AM 11/27/2007, you wrote:

...
Back at my first computer job, where Steve Gray was a mentor, we had a
special purpose computer called a BIP which did this quad counting as a
basic operation.  ...


i also used to work with steve and dave. steve replied to a post i 
just sent him with:


 ...

Euler number (an ambiguous designation, not recognized by most 
mathematicians) is easily calculated this way. Let Q1=the number of 
2x2 neighborhoods with this configuration:


X 0
0 1, and let Q3 be the number of these:

X 1
1  0, where X is don't care. Then E=Q1-Q3. The Q's are counted with a 
raster sweep that moves across and down by one cell, so a given pixel 
is examined four times. Also E=B-H where B is the number of blobs 
(connected sets of 1's) and H is the number of holes (connected sets 
of 0's inside blobs). This formula for E does not treat the following 
patterns optimally, but it can be improved by making it slightly more 
complicated.


1 0
0 1 and

0 1
1 0.

Holes on the edge can be counted by surrounding the image with a 
frame of 1's, but separate blobs touching the edge will become connected.
It's been 36 years since I published this work (IEEE Trans. 
Computers, May 1971) so I may not recall everything perfectly.
Incidentally, 2x2 neighborhoods are much better for tracing 
boundaries than 3x3, being faster and less ambiguous in crowded areas.
I thought about the Go problem a little but never wrote any code. I'm 
not sure how much help the Euler number stuff would be. I got to be 
about low intermediate as a player.


Steve Gray

... 

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[computer-go] Fwd: Re: [math-fun] Computer Go and Euler number

2007-11-27 Thread Ray Tayek
steve's post went to another list (probably by accident). the reply 
may be of interest:



Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:59:06 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: Dan Asimov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: math-fun [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Euler number (often called Euler characteristic) for nicely 
behaved topological spaces is standard terminology.


One large class of nicely behaved spaces is those that can be 
triangulated, and this include all those that can be expressed as a 
union of simple closed polygons (including interiors) meeting only 
along common edges and/or common vertices.


The definition of Euler characteristic X(S) for such a planar set S is

  X(S) = V-E+F

(where the X is written as a script xi) and is a topological 
invariant.  (So it doesn't depend on how the space is decomposed 
into a nice union of


The area of a Go board occupied by certain pieces may be thought of 
as the union of squares, one per piece, meeting (when they do) along 
common edges.
(Such squares would be thought of as centered at any of the 361 
dots, with side length equal to the distance between adjacent dots.)


So to calculate the Euler characteristic of a set of pieces on a Go 
board, just consider each piece to be a square with 4 Vertices, 4 
Edges, and 1 Face. Each Vertices and Edges must be counted only 
once, even if it belongs to more than one square.)


To implement this, maintain one array for all (19+1)^2 = 400 
Vertices, one for all 2*19*(19+1) = 760 Edges, and one for all 19^2 
= 361 Faces, zeroing these all out at the start.  Whenever a piece 
in the set S of interest is encountered, ensure that all 9 = 4+4+1 
relevant array values are set to 1, not 0.  Finally, calculate X(S) = V-E+F.


There is a simple relationship between X(S) and the number H of holes in S:

H = 1 - X.

(As a check, note that a full board has H = 1-(400-760+361) = 0 holes.)

Hope this helps.

--Dan



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Re: [computer-go] [OT] All-integer scalable distribution algorithm.

2007-11-06 Thread Ray Tayek

At 07:03 PM 11/6/2007, you wrote:

...
Returns an integer in [0-range] distributed depending on the value 
of degree-of-randomness.  At degree-of-randomness 100, I want the 
distribution to be uniform.  At degree-of-randomness 0, I want the 
distribution to be  -- I don't even know what to call this -- 
half-of-a-normal-distribution  with the steepness proportionately 
related to degree-of-randomness.


maybe a normal (gaussian) with the standard deviation (sigma) 
proportional to the degree of randomness. but clip the tails. see the 
graphs of the normal density function: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution. a larger variance 
will get you a flatter curve that will approach a uniform distribution.



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RE: [computer-go] 19x19 CGOS

2007-10-28 Thread Ray Tayek

At 09:27 AM 10/28/2007, you wrote:

Would anyone be interested in a highly configurable version 11 with gtp
interface?
 ...


i'll buy one.

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Re: [computer-go] Former Deep Blue Research working on Go

2007-10-12 Thread Ray Tayek

At 07:36 AM 10/12/2007, you wrote:

Chris Fant wrote:
 Ho can I find Go vids on youtube?  Searching for go obviously 
does nothing.



Atari was also a good keyword here. There it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1FvPxmmfE


searching for: go baduk weiqi

returns a bunch.

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Re: [computer-go] Former Deep Blue Research working on Go

2007-10-12 Thread Ray Tayek

At 04:31 PM 10/12/2007, you wrote:

How do I find the ones narrated in English?


not sure, i just found these things/


Do they exist?


yes


The
closest I could find was this one which is almost unwatchable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uArhCnJu7LM


all of the ones by her that i have seen are in english. searching 
for: Guo Juan gives a few hundred! here is a new guy: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFImtHxZrEw i found searching on: go 
baduk weichi.




On 10/12/07, Ray Tayek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 At 07:36 AM 10/12/2007, you wrote:
 Chris Fant wrote:
   Ho can I find Go vids on youtube?  Searching for go obviously
  does nothing.
  
  
 Atari was also a good keyword here. There it is:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1FvPxmmfE

 searching for: go baduk weiqi

 returns a bunch.

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Re: [computer-go] Former Deep Blue Research working on Go

2007-10-10 Thread Ray Tayek

At 02:33 PM 10/7/2007, you wrote:

Found this link and thought you all might find it interesting.

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/oct07/5552


thread on slashdot: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/10/1758244


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[computer-go] Slaying Mighty Dragons: Competitive Ranking and Matching Systems (with url)

2007-09-26 Thread Ray Tayek

mentions elo and m$'s variation

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000961.html

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[computer-go] Slaying Mighty Dragons: Competitive Ranking and Matching Systems

2007-09-25 Thread Ray Tayek

mentions elo and m$'s variation

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Re: [computer-go] 2007 Cotsen Open wants your program to enter

2007-09-13 Thread Ray Tayek

At 09:17 AM 9/13/2007, you wrote:
In message 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Ray 
Tayek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

details are here: http://web.mac.com/thelec/iWeb/Go/Index.html. ...


Are platforms provided, or do entrants have to bring their own?


you must bring your own hardware.


Do programs that pre-register qualify for the free buffet?


sure.


(And this list is the wrong place to mention it, but I am unsure how 
many parallel events are being held.  The sentence The Cotsen Open, 
6 Dan and up, Cotsen Handicap Tournament, open to all ranks, except 
as noted to the left is unclear.  My best guess is that there are 
two events, with the Open one being very far from open.)


noted on the left? ... can't see anythign there. i have been going to 
this for about 10 years. there are just 2 sectons open and handicap.


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Re: [computer-go] 2007 Cotsen Open wants your program to enter

2007-09-13 Thread Ray Tayek

At 12:49 PM 9/13/2007, you wrote:
...
I would also like to list the results from past years, as far as 
computer participation goes.  But I can't find any Cotsen results 
listed on the web.  Do you happen to know what program won in the 
last two years?


we've only done this twice. slug beat smart go the first time and 
slugo was the sole program entered last year.


i know the time is short, but i am hoping that we have more programs 
in the mix this year.


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[computer-go] 2007 cotsen open

2007-08-30 Thread Ray Tayek
will be held at the mayfair (same place as last time) in los angeles 
on november 10-11. computer programs may enter. more details later.


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Re: [computer-go] Go datastructures

2007-07-20 Thread Ray Tayek

At 08:38 PM 7/19/2007, you wrote:

In the engine I've been working on for a week or two (I'm brand new to
computer-go)
I use:
typedef int INTERSECTION;
typedef enum { BLACK, WHITE, EMPTY } COLOR;


i used: typedef enum { BLACK, WHITE, EMPTY,OFFBOARD } COLOR; once. it 
eliminated tests for array bounds inside a loop. and might be useful 
in isolating groups somehow (maybe a live group of opposite color is 
like off the board).


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Re: [computer-go] professional knowledge

2007-04-07 Thread Ray Tayek

At 06:17 AM 4/6/2007, you wrote:

On Fri, 2007-04-06 at 13:48 +0100, Jacques Basaldúa wrote:
 Darren Cook wrote:

   All except joseki-knowledge is board-size independent.

 Maybe human player's adapt to different board sizes without
 even noticing. But if you try to model strategy with algorithms
 it is totally board size dependent.

Doesn't that just imply the model is incorrect?   If the model
captures the true spirit of the game, it shouldn't matter.


There may be some formal (but likely complex) way to describe a
correct opening play strategy on any size board that is not
board-size dependent.


mr. yang uses the ideas of short and long 
extensions and high-low combinations in the 
beginning. (a short extension being 1 or spaces 
and a long being ideally 5 spaces). this tends to be eficient.



   I'll try to give an example:

  On small boards, it seems like it's correct to play to the
  center point on the first move?   Why?   The rule: always
  play to the center point might NOT be a board size independent
  strategy but might work well for boards smaller than say 11x11.
  But if you could capture the REASON for this,  you might be
  able to formulate a better strategy for playing the first
  move that would work on all boards.


playing in the center on a large board is 
reasonable. the trick is to make the stone 
useful. on a large board, this leads to an 
unusual style of play. black wins all ladders and 
has an advantage in all fights. many josekis are unfavorable for white.



There are underlying reasons for everything and that is what must
be captured to achieve a boardsize independent strategy.

Of course I'm getting rather theoretical.  I understand that you
are looking for practical solutions and approximations.


i suspect that the short/long and high/low 
heuristic would be useful during the fuseki stage.


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[computer-go] From Surreal Numbers to Games

2007-04-07 Thread Ray Tayek

fyi:

http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/04/post_3.php


Today we're going to take our first baby-step into the land of surreal games.

A surreal number is a pair of sets {L|R} where 
every value in L is less than every value in R. 
If we follow the rules of surreal construction, 
so that the members of L sets are always strictly 
less than members of R sets, we end up with a 
totally ordered field (almost) - it gives us 
something essentially equivalent to a superset of 
the real numbers. (The reason for the almost is 
that technically, the surreals form a class not a 
set, and a field must be based on a set. But for 
our purposes, we can treat them as a field without much trouble.)


But what happens if we take away the restriction 
about the  relationship between the L and R 
sets? What we get is a set of things called 
games. A game is a pair of sets L and R, where 
each member of L and R is also a game. It should 
be obvious that every surreal number is also a 
game - but there are many more games than there 
are surreal numbers, and most games are not surreal numbers.


Games lose some of the nice properties of the 
surreal numbers. They are not a field. They are 
not totally ordered. In fact, they're not even 
all positive or negative. They're very strange things.


So why would we want to break the restriction on 
the surreals that gives us games? Naturally, 
because games have useful applications in 
modeling many things - in particular, games (in 
the non-mathematical sense - games like Go, Chess, Checkers, Poker, etc).


Let's take a bit more of a detailed look at games, and how they interact.

Game arithmetic is exactly the same as surreal 
arithmetic: addition, subtraction, 
multiplication, negation - even division (which 
we haven't looked at yet) are all defined in the 
same way of surreal numbers and games.


But: while surreal numbers are always either 
positive, negative, or zero, games can also be 
fuzzy. Remember, games are not fully ordered. 
That means that there are pairs of games (a,b) 
where ¬a b and ¬b a - that is, where the two 
games cannot meaningfully be compared. Fuzzy 
games are games that can't be compared to zero.


What does a fuzzy game look like? The simplest 
example is: {1|-1}. Try to use the definition of 
  on that game with zero - it doesn't work.


Games also have some strange behaviors with 
respect to multiplication. If a, b, and c are 
games, then (as you would expect for numbers), if 
x×z=y×z then x=y. But, with games, x=y doesn't 
mean that x×z=y×z. Nasty, that, eh?


So what are these beasts useful for? Part of 
Conway's motivation was trying to analyze the 
game of Go (aka Wei-Chi). Go is one of the oldest 
strategic games in the world; it's been played 
for thousands of years in China, Japan, and 
Korea. Go is the Japanese name, which is 
generally used here in the US; Wei-Chi is the 
chinese name for it. It's a thoroughly fascinating game.


Go is a two-player game where the players have a 
17x17 grid. Each move, a player puts a piece of 
their own color on one of the intersections on 
the grid. The goal of the game is to surround 
territory using your pieces. Whoever has the most 
territory at the end wins. Mechanically, it's 
about as simple as a game can get. Strategically, 
it's unbelievably deep and complex. It's 
frequently compared to Chess in terms of depth 
and strategy. It's a wonderful game. ...



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Re: [computer-go] Turing test

2007-04-05 Thread Ray Tayek

At 02:47 PM 4/5/2007, you wrote:
I don't play go, so apply whatever discount seems appropriate 
But when one of the engines reaches shodan at 19x19 (not so far 
away, I think)  ...


probably still *very* far away. the best programs are rated at about 
10-kyu. 10 stones is a *long* way. it's non-linear


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[computer-go] Algorithm helps computers beat human Go players

2007-02-22 Thread Ray Tayek

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=technologyNewsstoryid=2007-02-21T181324Z_01_L20533484_RTRUKOC_0_US-SCIENCE-GO.xmlsrc=nl_ustechnology

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Re: [computer-go] Big board, ++physics

2007-02-22 Thread Ray Tayek

At 09:03 PM 2/22/2007, you wrote:


4/ shape/size resonance
(un)fortunately the 19x19 size is just the critical size to have problems.
-17x17 is too small, corners influence is too strong, it is quickly
  possible to take the border. (= 3 bubbles)
-21x21 is too wide, it is not possible to quickly prevent easy invasion.
 (= 4 bubbles) (a strong go player told me: both are boring to play)
-19x19 is critical, just in between, that's why it's fun (=3.1415 bubbles ;)


don't know about bubbles, but i am under the impression that at 
17x17, there corner and side territory is too large and the reverse 
is true at 21x21. at 19x19, there is a little less turf in in center.


it's also hard to see why 21x21 would be boring (i can see 17x17 
being too simple in some sense).


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Re: [computer-go] Serializing a very large object in Java

2007-02-09 Thread Ray Tayek

At 09:55 AM 2/9/2007, you wrote:

..., Java  has a stack overflow error.


i assume you have tried the java -Xss to set the stack size (type 
java -X for help on these)?


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Re: [computer-go] Best computer go development library?

2007-01-24 Thread Ray Tayek

At 02:52 PM 1/23/2007, you wrote:
... I'm interested in doing some experiments in developing a 
computer go algorithm. ... I'll probably be writing in C++ on Linux 
or C# on Windows, depending on the software available for each.


take a look at http://www.lclark.edu/~drake/go/ it was in java, he 
tried c++ and went back. so you have some good examples of stuff 
there in java and c++.


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Re: [computer-go] Can a computer beat a human?

2007-01-23 Thread Ray Tayek

At 01:22 PM 1/23/2007, you wrote:
...  It plays the best game you could ever program it to play.  How 
fast would the computer have to be to beat a human?  ... but I would 
say a computer with perfect software, 32 GB of RAM (so a lot) and a 
300 Mhz processor (slow processor) would be able to beat a human.


the programs seem to be about 10-kyu (based on my observations of 
slugo and smart go at the cotsen open and manyfaces on my pc). 
32gb/300 mhz is probably about 3gb/3ghz. so they can beat some 11-kyu humans.


my suspicion is that the programs could play a few (4?) stones 
stronger with better heuristics and less brute force (except in the end game).


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Re: [computer-go] Can a computer beat a human?

2007-01-23 Thread Ray Tayek

At 01:51 PM 1/23/2007, you wrote:

Let me clear one thing up...  I mean, a professional go player. ...


this would be equivalent to somewhere between 7-10 dan amateur.

at least decades. probably much longer. (at least without quantum stuff).

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Re: [computer-go] an idea... computer go program's rank vs time

2007-01-22 Thread Ray Tayek

At 09:27 AM 1/22/2007, you wrote:

...
Don believes there is probably no difference and 
states a rule: doubling thinking time = linear improvement in play.


i agree with this over some small range of powers of two.

..., as breaking the game into regions and doing 
local reading and global analysis reduces the 
complexity somewhat, but in general go explodes a lot faster than chess ...


... I can say that I don’t feel overwhelmed when playing chess.   ...
Now with Go as a beginner still, on the other 
hand, I almost always felt and still feel quite overwhelmed  ...


yes, i usually feel this way in tournament games. 
and again more time will help (for some small powers of 2).


i think more time works better because go has 
more battles going on at the same time.


... The interactions between areas and the 
explosion of the game and lack of experience to 
be able to “sense” good shape and proper 
balance early enough to lead to life and 
territory just simply overwhelms me. The feeling 
is not as severe as it was when I first learned, 
but it is still there.  I wonder whether even 
for strong amateurs this is still the case, but 
just happens a bit deeper.  Is this the time 
limit that Ray talks about where any more time is not helpful?  ...


if you are analyzing one battle, maybe more 
powers of two. if it's many battles, maybe fewer 
powers of two as you will hit your mental limit  sooner.


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Re: [computer-go] an idea for a new measure of a computer go program's rank.

2007-01-19 Thread Ray Tayek

At 08:45 PM 1/18/2007, you wrote:

On Thu, 2007-01-18 at 20:05 -0800, Ray Tayek wrote:

 yes. i would easily give my opponent *much* more time than a few
 handicap stones. the effect of time making someone (or thing) play
 better (or worse) is non-linear and probably only effective over some
 small range of time and talent.

I think the formula is probably similar to UCT or Chess, but even more
so for humans.


sorry, no clue about the formula.


 Double the amount of time you have, and significantly
increase the quality of the move.  I don't think this is a limited
effect over a narrow range of time.


i suspect that it is in humans. i am only a 1-dan player. but during 
most of the game:


if i have a reasonable amount if time (say 1 hour or so), doubling or 
trippling the time to think about one move (or for the whole game) 
does not make any difference (but i have been playing for 40 years). 
i tend to reach my limit of reading (look ahead).


i would cut my time to 40 minutes for 2 stones and play for money. 30 
minutes for 3 stones, 25 minutes for 4 stones, 20 minutes for 5 stones.


giving most 1-dans more than an hour is not going to help their game 
that much. we only play so well. pro's can probably defeat this since 
they can make the game complicated.




I understand chess better than go, I used to be a tournament player.
Give me time to think and I can produce moves
of enormously higher quality over tournament time-controls.  I know
this for a fact.   I seriously doubt it is different for go.


i don't play chess. but it seems different to me in go.


...
It probably is non-linear like you say - even in the more limited game
of Chess, the curve was amazingly linear (every doubling in time seemed
 to give a fixed amount
of ELO strength improvement)  ...


well, chess is close to 1+ battles. more look ahead should help in 
some linear way perhaps. go goes off the rails fast when you consider 
interactions of say the corner josekis to other corners.



As far as talent is concerned, some chess experiments seem to indicate ...
I think it might work the same with humans -  ... ...


don' t know enough to comment.


So I think strength in humans is very much the same - perhaps even more
scalable than with computers - subject of course to human frailties of
attention span, sleep time, ability to focus for long periods of time,
etc.


i play 20-25 minute games on yahoo sometimes when i am bored. these 
are moderately fast. some people play insanely fast (too me). like 10 
minutes (this is total time. no byo-yomi). ignoring what a group of 
people might be able to do, i suspect that having more than two hours 
of time per game for amateurs is the limit of usefulness. a pro could 
probably benefit from a much larger increase in time.


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Re: [computer-go] post

2006-12-02 Thread Ray Tayek

At 08:47 AM 12/2/2006, you wrote:
I am looking for tutorials and articles on the web to learn go. 
Would you please direct me to these resources if possible.


if you have a windows box, get http://www.smart-games.com/igowin.html

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Re: [computer-go] .. if Monte-Carlo programs would play infinite strong

2006-11-26 Thread Ray Tayek

At 04:24 AM 11/26/2006, you wrote:

 This is
something that should not be neglected because shodan players
approach perfect play ...


pm4ji, and i may have the context wrong, but shodan players are about 
10 stones from perfect play. if you have a pro review a shodan's 
game, *many* of his moves are 1) not the best locally, and/or 2) not 
in the biggest area of the board to play in (globally).


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