Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

I am pretty sure it is an MCTS problem and I suspect not something that could be easily solved with a policy network (could be wrong hree). My opinon is that DCNN is not a miracle worker (as somebody already mentioned here) and it is going to fail resolving tactics. I would be more than happy

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

valky...@phmp.se: <19f31e7e5cdf310b9afa91f577997...@phmp.se>: >I think you misunderstood what I wrote, >if perfect play on 9x9 is 6000 Elo, then if the value function is 3000 >Elo and MC eval is 2000 Elo with 1 second thinking time then it might >be that the combination of a value function and

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

I did a quick test with my MCTS chess engine wth two different implementations. A standard MCTS with averaging, and MCTS with alpha-beta rollouts. The result is like a 600 elo difference Finished game 44 (scorpio-pmcts vs scorpio-mcts): 1/2-1/2 {Draw by 3-fold repetition} Score of scorpio-mcts vs

[Computer-go] Game-independent AlphaZero approach

Hi Remi, hi friends, > For the moment, my main objective is shogi. I > will participate in the World Computer Shogi > Championship in May. Good luck! Please, keep us informed when the tournament is running. > So I am developing a game-independent AlphaZero framework. I am hoping several

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

Alpha-beta rollouts is like MCTS without playouts (as in AlphaZero), and something that can also do alpha-beta pruning. With standard MCTS, the tree converges to a minmax tree not an alpha-beta tree, so as you know there is a huge branching factor difference there. For MCTS to become competitive

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

Summarizing the objections to my (non-evidence-based, but hand-wavy observationally-based) assertion that 9x9 is going down anytime someone really wants it to go down, I get the following: * value networks can't hack it (okay, maybe? does this make it less likely? -- we shouldn't expect to

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

Sorry, I haven't been paying enough attention lately to know what "alpha-beta rollouts" means precisely. Can you either describe them or give me a reference? Thanks, Álvaro. On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 1:49 PM, Dan wrote: > I did a quick test with my MCTS chess engine wth two

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

Well, AlphaZero did fine at chess tactics, and the papers are clear on the details. There must be an error in your deductions somewhere. From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of Dan Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 1:46 PM To: computer-go@computer-go.org

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

Training on Stockfish games is guaranteed to produce a blunder-fest, because there are no blunders in the training set and therefore the policy network never learns how to refute blunders. This is not a flaw in MCTS, but rather in the policy network. MCTS will eventually search every move

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

I think you misunderstood what I wrote, if perfect play on 9x9 is 6000 Elo, then if the value function is 3000 Elo and MC eval is 2000 Elo with 1 second thinking time then it might be that the combination of a value function and MC eval ends up being 2700 Elo. It could also be that it ends up