Re: [Computer-go] GCP passing on the staff ...
That's a nice way to describe it. What I've seen is that mid-fight it will just play elsewhere. Like hard mid fight. Middle of the fight just walk away On Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 2:25 PM Igor Polyakov I saw a game where it decided connecting its group wasn't important since > it could still make the cut off side sabaki later > > Approaches corner, decides it's ahead, lives later > > It doesn't care about keeping groups strong as much > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 13:24 uurtamo >> They will abandon a fight to take bigger sente. It's super scary to watch. >> >> s. >> >> On Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 8:06 PM Robert Jasiek > >>> On 29.01.2019 18:53, uurtamo wrote: >>> > it's [...] about an insane need to keep sente. my only >>> > takeaway other than reading out fights way way way in advance. >>> >>> I can confirm the necessity for keeping sente with respect for the >>> endgame but would not be surprised it to also apply during opening and >>> middle game. One of the greatest weaknesses of my pupils in the kyus is >>> not to play all their sentes (other than privileges preserved for ko >>> threats or liberties) before gotes. From my study, research of and book >>> writing on the endgame during the previous 2.5 years, I have realised >>> the importance of distinguishing gote from sente even if their >>> difference is only a fraction of a point (but it can be up to ca. 5 >>> points per local decision) and of exceptionally playing gote instead of >>> sente or vice versa depending on the global context. Every small mistake >>> in evaluation about playing too long locally etc. amounts to a large >>> total amount when all mistakes accumulate. Programs would notice such >>> implicitly due to their smaller winning chances when making too many >>> such mistakes. >>> >>> Reading out fights in advance very deeply I have only noticed a few >>> times during programs' play but, of course, you are right. I simply have >>> not studied their deep reading carefully enough to witness more >>> incidents. >>> >>> -- >>> robert jasiek >>> ___ >>> Computer-go mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >> >> ___ >> Computer-go mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] GCP passing on the staff ...
I saw a game where it decided connecting its group wasn't important since it could still make the cut off side sabaki later Approaches corner, decides it's ahead, lives later It doesn't care about keeping groups strong as much On Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 13:24 uurtamo They will abandon a fight to take bigger sente. It's super scary to watch. > > s. > > On Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 8:06 PM Robert Jasiek >> On 29.01.2019 18:53, uurtamo wrote: >> > it's [...] about an insane need to keep sente. my only >> > takeaway other than reading out fights way way way in advance. >> >> I can confirm the necessity for keeping sente with respect for the >> endgame but would not be surprised it to also apply during opening and >> middle game. One of the greatest weaknesses of my pupils in the kyus is >> not to play all their sentes (other than privileges preserved for ko >> threats or liberties) before gotes. From my study, research of and book >> writing on the endgame during the previous 2.5 years, I have realised >> the importance of distinguishing gote from sente even if their >> difference is only a fraction of a point (but it can be up to ca. 5 >> points per local decision) and of exceptionally playing gote instead of >> sente or vice versa depending on the global context. Every small mistake >> in evaluation about playing too long locally etc. amounts to a large >> total amount when all mistakes accumulate. Programs would notice such >> implicitly due to their smaller winning chances when making too many >> such mistakes. >> >> Reading out fights in advance very deeply I have only noticed a few >> times during programs' play but, of course, you are right. I simply have >> not studied their deep reading carefully enough to witness more incidents. >> >> -- >> robert jasiek >> ___ >> Computer-go mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] GCP passing on the staff ...
They will abandon a fight to take bigger sente. It's super scary to watch. s. On Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 8:06 PM Robert Jasiek On 29.01.2019 18:53, uurtamo wrote: > > it's [...] about an insane need to keep sente. my only > > takeaway other than reading out fights way way way in advance. > > I can confirm the necessity for keeping sente with respect for the > endgame but would not be surprised it to also apply during opening and > middle game. One of the greatest weaknesses of my pupils in the kyus is > not to play all their sentes (other than privileges preserved for ko > threats or liberties) before gotes. From my study, research of and book > writing on the endgame during the previous 2.5 years, I have realised > the importance of distinguishing gote from sente even if their > difference is only a fraction of a point (but it can be up to ca. 5 > points per local decision) and of exceptionally playing gote instead of > sente or vice versa depending on the global context. Every small mistake > in evaluation about playing too long locally etc. amounts to a large > total amount when all mistakes accumulate. Programs would notice such > implicitly due to their smaller winning chances when making too many > such mistakes. > > Reading out fights in advance very deeply I have only noticed a few > times during programs' play but, of course, you are right. I simply have > not studied their deep reading carefully enough to witness more incidents. > > -- > robert jasiek > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] GCP passing on the staff ...
On 29.01.2019 18:53, uurtamo wrote: it's [...] about an insane need to keep sente. my only takeaway other than reading out fights way way way in advance. I can confirm the necessity for keeping sente with respect for the endgame but would not be surprised it to also apply during opening and middle game. One of the greatest weaknesses of my pupils in the kyus is not to play all their sentes (other than privileges preserved for ko threats or liberties) before gotes. From my study, research of and book writing on the endgame during the previous 2.5 years, I have realised the importance of distinguishing gote from sente even if their difference is only a fraction of a point (but it can be up to ca. 5 points per local decision) and of exceptionally playing gote instead of sente or vice versa depending on the global context. Every small mistake in evaluation about playing too long locally etc. amounts to a large total amount when all mistakes accumulate. Programs would notice such implicitly due to their smaller winning chances when making too many such mistakes. Reading out fights in advance very deeply I have only noticed a few times during programs' play but, of course, you are right. I simply have not studied their deep reading carefully enough to witness more incidents. -- robert jasiek ___ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] GCP passing on the staff ...
so aside from the rumors, i've watched games that are simply mind-blowing. it's, from what i've seen, about an insane need to keep sente. my only takeaway other than reading out fights way way way in advance. s. On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 11:15 AM Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: > On 29/01/19 11:23, Petri Pitkanen wrote: > > Just purely curiosity: How strong is Leela now? googling up gives that > > it is better than best humasn already? Is that true? > > The network is over 100 Elo stronger than the second generation of ELF, > which was about 100 Elo stronger than the first generation, which > defeated a set of Korean top professional players 14-0. > > Differences in implementation speed will shift the strength difference > around a bit, but not enough to change the conclusion that it's likely a > lot better than the best humans now. > > I hear rumors it's not 100% undefeatable, and that with some trial and > error you can occasionally still find a weaknesses to pounce on. > > It is used by professionals for analysis, e.g.: > https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=16074 > > -- > GCP > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] GCP passing on the staff ...
On 29/01/19 11:23, Petri Pitkanen wrote: > Just purely curiosity: How strong is Leela now? googling up gives that > it is better than best humasn already? Is that true? The network is over 100 Elo stronger than the second generation of ELF, which was about 100 Elo stronger than the first generation, which defeated a set of Korean top professional players 14-0. Differences in implementation speed will shift the strength difference around a bit, but not enough to change the conclusion that it's likely a lot better than the best humans now. I hear rumors it's not 100% undefeatable, and that with some trial and error you can occasionally still find a weaknesses to pounce on. It is used by professionals for analysis, e.g.: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=16074 -- GCP ___ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] GCP passing on the staff ...
Just purely curiosity: How strong is Leela now? googling up gives that it is better than best humasn already? Is that true? Petri ma 28. tammik. 2019 klo 23.31 "Ingo Althöfer" ([email protected]) kirjoitti: > Hello, > > a central quote from the Leela Github blog at > https://github.com/gcp/leela-zero/issues/2157 > > Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: > >> So, practically, I'll keep the current 256x40 running as > >> is, which probably has a (few?) month(s) to go with a last > >> learning rate drop or playout increase, at least, but for > >> the next leap ahead someone else (person or team) will have > >> to step up and do the necessary work: > > So, we are standing at a fork. > How will the Leela Zero project proceed? > Who is willing to take central positions in that process? > > Many thanks to Gian-Carlo for putting so much energy into > the project! And many thanks to his wife and family for > accepting his dedication to computer go and computer chess! > It has helped our scene so much. > > Ingo. > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
