Re: [CGUYS] LCD monitor question
Don't worry about not actually owning a Dell Computer. You can say you bought the Dell monitor based on Dell's reputation for (cough cough) stellar products, service and support. (Whew...I actually said that with a straight face too!) Tell them you're a Mac person but you bought the monitor because of the reviews it got *but* if the monitor will only last 3 1/2 years, you're going to have to rethink about getting anything from Dell. Larry -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paula Minor Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:23 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] LCD monitor question Too bad, your warranty's expired, ask to speak to a supervisor and explain you bought the monitor based on the reviews you'd read and how you thought a Dell product would last far, far longer. (If any of your systems are Dell, say that). Go for the Loyal Customer angle who's disappointed to only get 3 years out of a monitor. While you're doing this, stress your now-doubting belief that Dell makes a good product and how you'll I may give it a try. I'm strictly a Mac person now but I do have a Dell system sitting here beside me,unplugged, so I DO have their products around. g Paula IN/USA Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO what a ride! Have a wonderful day! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] LCD monitor question
Tony, I use an LCD monitor to add desk space to my laptop's monitor. I keep about 6 icons on the XP's desktop. I use the space to have 8-10 applications and a couple dozen current files open and/or to have a remote server connection on one and an application on the other. I also use as much screen real estate as I can get at home on my Macs. This is definitely more productive for me (a senior engineer). What do you do that does not make this more productive for you? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- That's an absurd assumption. Or do you have some shred of evidence that supports this wacko theory? Why would having empty space on your desk do anything but give you someplace else to store crap? And I can't imagine a job where a worker with a slightly bigger screen would actually be more productive than one without, all other things being equal. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] LCD monitor question
*I* was asserting that simply increasing a worker's screen size will NOT increase their productivity. RAM, certainly. CPU speed, maybe. But I need a bigger screen so I can be more productive sounds more like a whine than a reasoned argument. Even Tom gave up on the theory, after futilely trying to find some shred of evidence to support it. On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Snyder, Mark (IT Civ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tony, I use an LCD monitor to add desk space to my laptop's monitor. I keep about 6 icons on the XP's desktop. I use the space to have 8-10 applications and a couple dozen current files open and/or to have a remote server connection on one and an application on the other. I also use as much screen real estate as I can get at home on my Macs. This is definitely more productive for me (a senior engineer). What do you do that does not make this more productive for you? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- That's an absurd assumption. Or do you have some shred of evidence that supports this wacko theory? Why would having empty space on your desk do anything but give you someplace else to store crap? And I can't imagine a job where a worker with a slightly bigger screen would actually be more productive than one without, all other things being equal. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] LCD monitor question
So, you reject why I find it more productive or am I 'whining' by claiming I often need more than one application window open at the same time? What do you do with a computer in your job? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- *I* was asserting that simply increasing a worker's screen size will NOT increase their productivity. RAM, certainly. CPU speed, maybe. But I need a bigger screen so I can be more productive sounds more like a whine than a reasoned argument. Even Tom gave up on the theory, after futilely trying to find some shred of evidence to support it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] LCD monitor question
I specifically said more RAM might help, which is what you need to have multiple apps running at once. Go ahead and drop your RAM to 512mb and get two 50 inch screens. You will NOT be more productive. I mostly do graphics. I have a macro that runs the 5 apps I need to do this. I do NOT feel the need to be able to SEE any but ONE app at a time. When I need to transfer files I use the taskbar. When I need to switch apps I may also use alt-tab. I suppose we could time the difference between how long it takes you to click a window and work in it, compared to me alt-tabbing to it. I doubt you save 10 seconds a day, if that much. And then there's my point of liking many of these windows maximized, like Photoshop. In that case, you're alt-tabbing also. On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Snyder, Mark (IT Civ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, you reject why I find it more productive or am I 'whining' by claiming I often need more than one application window open at the same time? What do you do with a computer in your job? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- *I* was asserting that simply increasing a worker's screen size will NOT increase their productivity. RAM, certainly. CPU speed, maybe. But I need a bigger screen so I can be more productive sounds more like a whine than a reasoned argument. Even Tom gave up on the theory, after futilely trying to find some shred of evidence to support it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] LCD monitor question
Honestly Tony, take a deep breath and accept that you are mistaken this time. Even I have seen articles that say that studies have shown that more screen real estate makes people more productive. And I've switched from a Powerbook to an iMac, so I can attest to this fact. I think Tom didn't bother posting links because he wasn't going to waste his time trying to convince you. Tony B wrote: *I* was asserting that simply increasing a worker's screen size will NOT increase their productivity. RAM, certainly. CPU speed, maybe. But I need a bigger screen so I can be more productive sounds more like a whine than a reasoned argument. Even Tom gave up on the theory, after futilely trying to find some shred of evidence to support it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] LCD monitor question
Hmmm, something tells me that I shouldn't wade into this discussion, but what the heck.it's a slow day and I've already been productive enough. I'll deal with the larger screen part, as, to me, having more desk space available is a no-brainer. The original message from you, Tony, said And I can't imagine a job where a worker with a slightly bigger screen would actually be more productive than one without, all other things being equal. There was no mention of RAM, CPU, etc., in your first message: that came later. But, let's assume you meant it. That leads to two cases, as I see it: 'All other things being equal' to me implies that you have whatever RAM, CPU, etc., you currently have (if talking about one individual getting a bigger screen), or the same RAM, CPU, etc., as your colleagues (if talking about more than one individual, all with the same computer equipment). So, let's take the second case first: where I work, we have standard 2 GB of RAM for all staff and students, and most of the CPUs are within one small clock step of each other (2.4-2.6 GHz, same processor release: we get pretty good discounts from Dell and we upgrade everybody in a work unit at the same time), and all have LCD monitors of the same size (19 widescreen). Note, we are not even discussing the difference between CRT and LCD. One of our students uses ArcGIS, so we got her a large screen (24 widescreen), so she could have the current map being displayed at a decent size, as well as have the various ArcGIS windows open on the side (if you use ArcGIS, you know what I'm talking about, if you don't use ArcGIS, you'll assume I'm blowing smoke and there's nothing I can do to change your mind :) ). Her productivity has certainly gone up, not to mention her mood. She smiles more often, she's not leaning forward with her nose inches from the screen and frowning at it, straining her neck muscles, etc. While the mood part may not be of much importance to you, it certainly is to me: when I ask for something to be done, it is received with a smile, not a grumpy look; it is done faster; there are fewer mistakes in the work; she can position things better on the map without having to continually enlarge it then reduce it to see how it looks, etc. The best $700 investment I can think of that I've made recently. Now, let's look at the first case: I had a 24 monitor, and upgraded to a 27. All other things on my computer are the same, including the screen res. I do a lot of programming and report writing. Comparing old and new code side-by-side, or being able to keep open the code, debug and output windows open on the same screen are just two of the things I do while programming. With more real estate and the same font size (not pixel size which would simply enlarge the font on a larger monitor with the same resolution as my old one, but same readable size on screen), I see more of each window. Does this help me? Sure! When writing technical reports, I often keep open the old report (typically last year's) to see what the recommendations were and did we meet them this time around while I'm writing the new one: I don't have to swap between windows, so no need to use either the mouse or Alt-tab, just glance over at the other report and write away on the new one. Does this help me? Yup! (Yes, I could have last year's printed version on my desktop, but that simply slows me down because I have to glance from the screen to the desk, etc., while I'm touch typing away.) When I look at graphs going into the reports, keeping the old and the new side by side helps in comparing the two: I don't have to print them out, yet can tell at a glance what the differences are. When editing photos, I can keep the original in a window on the side, while I can edit a copy and see the changes. Does this help me? You bet! While all these can be done on a smaller monitor, having a large one makes it much easier to spot subtle differences in photo editing. Plus, I don't have to calibrate two side by side monitors separately. I have to ask myself: what price to the business for saving me eyestrain; what price to the business for my ability to do things faster because of the larger monitor; what price to the business that I feel valued? Certainly the price is much smaller than my salary, but it is also much smaller than the extra they would be paying me because it would take me longer to do the job otherwise. So, I'd say that just because *you* can't imagine a job where a worker with a slightly bigger screen would actually be more productive than one without doesn't mean that other people cannot imagine it or actually experience it. Maybe you should let your imagination roam freer than it has heretofore! Please don't take refuge in the slightly bigger screen and that you meant the difference between 19 and 20, or some such thing. Your response was to Tom's Replacing a 19-inch CRT with a 24-inch
Re: [CGUYS] LCD monitor question
Paula, Dim LCD screen has become a common compaint, and there may be a solution! I have been repairing laptops recently, and they have a small board along the boarder of the LCD screen called the 'inverter'. It can cost as little as $20 in single quantity. According to http://www.inventgeek.com/Projects/shorts/lcdfix.aspx you can install it in as little as 20 minutes. I first looked for one of these six months ago, and the one I needed cost $95, but I searched for the same inverter last month, and found several sources for under $30 and lots of models to choose from! This would indicate that there is a growing market for this type of repair! Save that monitor from the junk heap! - Brian - Original Message - Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:26 PM Subject: [CGUYS] LCD monitor question I bought a new Dell LCD monitor so I could have a dual setup. Now, with both of them side-by-side, I realize that my eyes weren't going bad fastthe older LCD monitor(also a Dell) is very dim and the letters are a bit soft or blurry. I do calibrate my monitors and had been having problems getting it to calibrate well. I thought my eyes were going! This monitor is about 3 1/2 yrs old. Is it normal for lcd's to go bad this quickly? I have t he brightness turned all the way up now and it's still pretty dim, especially compared to the new one.And even with calibrating, the colors are very different between the two. I had planned on keeping my email on the older monitor and Word too. But I can hardly bear to read anything on it now. My eyes won't stay focused and I have to squint to bring the words into focus. If I put it on the new monitor, no problem reading at all. Just wanting to know if this is normal or has it gone bad faster than it should have? Im not sure I can continue to use it even for things like the tool bars of Photoshop, calendar, iTunes etc because it really bothers my eyes. Thanks! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Cash in the EU
Laws protect you for fraud with credit card with loss limited to $50 while no such protection is afforded the debit card use at all. -Original Message- From: db [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Cash in the EU What debit card risk are you referring to? If you lose it/ have it stolen? db b_s-wilk wrote: Travelers checks may be free here, but cost a lot to cash. Use CREDIT CARDS, never DEBIT CARDS for travel. The bank will take all of the risk, instead of you. Traveller's Checques are indeed passé. It's hard to find a place to cash them, and the hotels take like 5% for the pleasure. ATM cards are much easier. Travelled all over the UK last year, and every grocery store had ATMs I could use. Ellen H. - Original Message - From: Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Cash in the EU It has been a while, but I use to get Traveller's Checks in Euros for no fee. I don't recall anyone favorint that method. Are Traveller's Checks now passé? ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] tool size
I suppose I really should know better than to question the size of someone's tools. Were this a carpentry list, and I dared suggest those with smaller hammers were just as productive as those with bigger ones, I imagine the small firestorm from a very few people would be about the same. And god forbid I suggest those with TWO hammers weren't outproducing those with only one. But where would it end? Surely the guys with THREE hammers would be deeply offended at any suggestion they weren't any better than the guys with only two! BTW There are actually lots of studies that can be designed to show more (or bigger) monitors mean higher scores on certain tests. Here's one: http://research.microsoft.com/displayarticle.aspx?id=433 Here's another which is probably closer to the mark: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/screen-productivity.html It's a classic mistake for people who are new to usability to test individual system features as opposed to higher-level tasks that users want to perform. In other words, you can whine all day about how some part of your specific job would be made tougher if you had to sit closer to a smaller screen, but that doesn't prove your point. Don't worry, I'm not suggesting you give up your bigger (or multiple) monitors, heck, I wish I had a wraparound monitor here. But there have been coders/editors/carpenters that came before you with much smaller tools and they still had no trouble coding/editing/hammering rings around you, regardless how big your monitor(s) are. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Cash in the EU
You mean ... someone could steal your debit number and clear out your account? Wouldn't they need your pin #... or could they pick that up too somehow ? Seems like it would be pretty safe if you just used it at ATM's for cash withdrawals/ currency conversion? db rlsimon wrote: Laws protect you for fraud with credit card with loss limited to $50 while no such protection is afforded the debit card use at all. -Original Message- From: db [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Cash in the EU What debit card risk are you referring to? If you lose it/ have it stolen? db b_s-wilk wrote: Travelers checks may be free here, but cost a lot to cash. Use CREDIT CARDS, never DEBIT CARDS for travel. The bank will take all of the risk, instead of you. Traveller's Checques are indeed passé. It's hard to find a place to cash them, and the hotels take like 5% for the pleasure. ATM cards are much easier. Travelled all over the UK last year, and every grocery store had ATMs I could use. Ellen H. - Original Message - From: Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Cash in the EU It has been a while, but I use to get Traveller's Checks in Euros for no fee. I don't recall anyone favorint that method. Are Traveller's Checks now passé? ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Was LCD Monitor Question, now tool size
I don't think you're proving the point you're trying to prove. Mind you, this all started in response to Paula's question about her hard to see LCD monitor. You asked - in what seemed marginally reasonable at the time, Why would you replace a proven technology that still works with a newer technology that apparently has a shorter lifespan? Who would have thunk Paula's original email would have been the one to launch a thousand (it's starting to seem that way) emails that don't seem to have much of a point. No one asked at the time for your data to prove your point and if it is indeed true, I suppose we could delve into why we don't see more CRT monitors being sold nowadays? this is just a rhetorical question - I really, really, really don't want to start another discussion on the data presented. Then, at some point, you switched the discussion to focus on RAM... since more RAM equals faster system response time. Now (assuming I've kept this straight), you've switched to suggesting that people before us did more with less. Which is the first time I'm going to agree with you. Yes, people in the days before GUIs (who used dumb VT100 emulating terminals and DOS-based PC-XTs / dual drive floppy-based systems) did a lot with 13 monochrome monitors. This is your argument (as I read it) to prove a larger monitor won't make someone more productive. But then again, those people who came before us weren't running a Graphical User Interface system. They were using DOS or Unix - both of which (at the time) were command line oriented. Although full screen editors were available - such as Vi or (my personal favorite) Emacs, but the basic problem is real estate (ie: larger monitors) either weren't available or were so ludicrously expensive that many of those same coders didn't buy one. But since we shouldn't speak for them, perhaps if they were given a chance to use a larger display, they'd take it? Wait a minute... in my days in academia, I programmed on a VT100 terminal with Emacs and then later on a dual-floppy drive PC with a 13 Monochrome monitor and edlin (at times). The 13 monochrome monitor suited my needs just fine but that's also because nothing else was available. Given that I'm running XP and have multiple windows up, I'll stick with a bigger monitor. Perhaps if you're so productive with a non-large screen, you wouldn't mind switching back to a 13 monochrome monitor since as you've stated, a bigger monitor doesn't make someone more productive. I also still assert that giving people newer (dare I say) cooler equipment can help improve their productivity - if only by making them feel more important or valuable. Reading over this, I'm confused...what point are you trying to prove: 1. There's no business reason for getting a larger monitor? 2. More RAM will make a person more productive? 3. That a smaller monitor is actually the way to go? Larry P.S. I'm a freelance photographer and use Photoshop and PageMaker. Photoshop, I can still get by with a small-ish 17 CRT display. However, for PageMaker or any sort of layout software, I'll take the larger monitor any day over the smaller one. Does it make me more productive? I'd say it does since I don't have to shift items back and forth to see the workspace as much. -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony B Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:00 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: [CGUYS] tool size I suppose I really should know better than to question the size of someone's tools. Were this a carpentry list, and I dared suggest those with smaller hammers were just as productive as those with bigger ones, I imagine the small firestorm from a very few people would be about the same. And god forbid I suggest those with TWO hammers weren't outproducing those with only one. But where would it end? Surely the guys with THREE hammers would be deeply offended at any suggestion they weren't any better than the guys with only two! BTW There are actually lots of studies that can be designed to show more (or bigger) monitors mean higher scores on certain tests. Here's one: http://research.microsoft.com/displayarticle.aspx?id=433 Here's another which is probably closer to the mark: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/screen-productivity.html It's a classic mistake for people who are new to usability to test individual system features as opposed to higher-level tasks that users want to perform. In other words, you can whine all day about how some part of your specific job would be made tougher if you had to sit closer to a smaller screen, but that doesn't prove your point. Don't worry, I'm not suggesting you give up your bigger (or multiple) monitors, heck, I wish I had a wraparound monitor here. But there have been coders/editors/carpenters that came before you with much smaller tools and they still had no trouble coding/editing/hammering rings around you,
Re: [CGUYS] Cash in the EU
You mean ... someone could steal your debit number and clear out your account? Wouldn't they need your pin #... or could they pick that up too somehow ? Lots of ways to get your PIN. I have seen pictures of phoney fronts that get stuck onto real ATMs. They read your card info and collect your PIN for later use. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Was LCD Monitor Question, now tool size
No I didn't. You're confused, which is why I changed the subject. On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Larry Sacks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you're proving the point you're trying to prove. Mind you, this all started in response to Paula's question about her hard to see LCD monitor. You asked - in what seemed marginally reasonable at the time, Why would you replace a proven technology that still works with a newer technology that apparently has a shorter lifespan? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Was LCD Monitor Question, now tool size
I agree with Larry. Though I snipped the most of his post. I'd never go back to a CRT when it isn't necessary. And the bigger is most times always better, except in my case where it would block by view of the TV. I would love two monitors that could work together so when I ran Photoshop I could have toolbars on one and the image on another. But I don't do that frequently enough anymore to care. Plus my little iBook monitors and flat screens on the iMac have lasted longer then some of my CRTs. I didn't really read this thread, so sorry if my comments are way off base. Jeff M On May 5, 2008, at 4:15 PM, Larry Sacks wrote: But since we shouldn't speak for them, perhaps if they were given a chance to use a larger display, they'd take it? Wait a minute... in my days in academia, I programmed on a VT100 terminal with Emacs and then later on a dual-floppy drive PC with a 13 Monochrome monitor and edlin (at times). The 13 monochrome monitor suited my needs just fine but that's also because nothing else was available. Given that I'm running XP and have multiple windows up, I'll stick with a bigger monitor. Perhaps if you're so productive with a non-large screen, you wouldn't mind switching back to a 13 monochrome monitor since as you've stated, a bigger monitor doesn't make someone more productive. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Was LCD Monitor Question, now tool size
You asked - in what seemed marginally reasonable at the time, Why would you replace a proven technology that still works with a newer technology that apparently has a shorter lifespan? No, I asked that. I got reasonable answers. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] tool size
Tony B wrote: I suppose I really should know better than to question the size of someone's tools. Were this a carpentry list, and I dared suggest those with smaller hammers were just as productive as those with bigger ones, I imagine the small firestorm from a very few people would be about the same. And god forbid I suggest those with TWO hammers weren't outproducing those with only one. But where would it end? Surely the guys with THREE hammers would be deeply offended at any suggestion they weren't any better than the guys with only two! Tony, I have never, ever, debated you on any of your posts even if I disagreed with any. I think that you provide a different view that ought to be considered even tho some will disagree. But your hammer analogy is flawed. I saying this only, not anything else. I am both an amateur carpenter and an amateur clockmaker (actually, an engineer by profession). I know by personal experience that a hammer has a specific use, and the choice of a wrong one will be at least be an inconvenience and at most a disaster. Consider carpentry: first imagine hammering a hardened nail into brick, then a nail into wood, then a nail into drywall, then a nail in a piece of fine furniture. The nails are different sized, different hardness, different shaped. The hammer needed to drive the nails are different. Next, imagine hammering a post or a gear (commonly called a wheel) in a mechanical clock. Will the same-sized hammer for a brick nail suffice for a delicate clock? Never! My clock hammer head (which is used sparingly) weights about 2 ounces, has two flat sides with one side made of brass and the other with teflon. I use the brass mostly to open a mainspring container on an European clock (the container has a gear on the base that drives both the going and strike train); it is possible to use the either the brass or teflon-faced hammer to rebush a pivot in the old style. An American clock has a bare mainspring that needs a C-clamp to remove it (a dangerous operation) but does not require a hammer. A hammer is sometimes needed to free a sticky front or back plate posts or a few other things. Usually a hammer is is not needed since there is a wide variety of specialized tools for clockmaking. So, different hammers for different folks! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Cash in the EU
Thanks for the explanation Betty. Yes, my CC gives me cash back... not my debit card. Although I used to use my CC for foreign travel/ cash, I have been using my debit card more recently because the fees are lower. Thus my interest in your comments. Your points are good ones ... and have given me pause. thanks. dan b_s-wilk wrote: db [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: What debit card risk are you referring to? If you lose it/ have it stolen? Dan, When you use a debit card, it takes money directly from your bank account. If someone watches while you get cash at an ATM, they can get your PIN. There are ways they can rig ATMs to steal your card. You could be robbed on your way out of a store after someone near the register watched you input your PIN. Unlike debit cards, credit cards don't require PINs for store purchases but they're also checked through a database. You're as likely to lose money with a debit card online too, since the money is transferred from your bank account without the buffer of a credit card provider that is required to provide some theft protection by law. It's $50 max liability for credit cards, and $500 max for debit cards--big difference. My cards have been stolen, my account numbers have been compromised. I didn't lose any money. Debit card holders don't have the same level of protection. I also view my online accounts between billing statements to see if there are any unfamiliar purchases [that my husband didn't make]. A few years ago we returned from a holiday overseas and discovered that about $1000 had been charged at home on an account while we were away. You never know when or where your accounts will be compromised so we . We didn't pay anything on that account due to theft and aided in locating the thief. I also don't know of any debit cards that pay cash back since my Wilmington Savings Fund Society card stopped paying 3-5%. Are there any cash back debit cards left? All my credit cards pay me up to 5% to use them. Do yours? Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] TV schedule listings
My apologies if this has been covered before (I think it has), but does anyone know of a site that provides TV listings? Like a TV Guide without having to pay for a subscription. Ralph * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
