Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
And two made an airplane fly! Stewart At 06:07 PM 7/29/2008, you wrote: On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:40 AM, db <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Two wrongs don't make a right... > But three lefts do. > :) > > db Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:40 AM, db <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Two wrongs don't make a right... > But three lefts do. > :) > > db > > John Duncan Yoyo wrote: >> >> They effectively proved that the fellow was right to with hold that >> information from the idiots in charge. >> >> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> >>> This story gets funnier and funnier. Now SF's DA has published a list of >>> the city's most sensitive usernames and passwords as "evidence" in a >>> court filing. >>> >>> Extreme cluelessness. >>> >>> >>> * >>> ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** >>> ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** >>> * >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
> I was telling someone about the story this morning and came to the same > conclusion. The city's IT dept looks to be managed by a bunch of idiots. > The netadmin was just protecting his loved ones. No question about that. But someone had to hire the idiots in charge in the first place. You'd think this guy's felony convictions would have been the tip off that he might not be an ideal candidate for employee of the month. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
It reminded me of an incident my brother had years ago while working for a major company. My brothers is the IT Manager for a division of a major travel property management company. He manages the local office and is in charge of the equipment and such plus does data work. A network guy came in from the headquarters building and started to work on their equipment. He refused (I am putting it mildly) to tell my brother what he was doing plus started pass wording everything. Well to make a long story short, my brother asked him to leave and promptly made noise up the chain. Apparently someone upstairs listened to my brother and no negative things happened to him over the incident. But it sounds eerily similar. The problem is no one questioned nor supervised this gentleman and when they realized what they had done, they tried to close the barn door after the herd had escaped. Plus they seem to be acting real stupid now that they have discovered the barn door was really closed and they did not realize it. Their prosecution of him seems to be akin to using a 155 mm howitzer to go after a mosquito. Stewart At 09:51 AM 7/29/2008, you wrote: I was telling someone about the story this morning and came to the same conclusion. The city's IT dept looks to be managed by a bunch of idiots. The netadmin was just protecting his loved ones. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
> They effectively proved that the fellow was right to with hold that > information from the idiots in charge. I was telling someone about the story this morning and came to the same conclusion. The city's IT dept looks to be managed by a bunch of idiots. The netadmin was just protecting his loved ones. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
Two wrongs don't make a right... :) db John Duncan Yoyo wrote: They effectively proved that the fellow was right to with hold that information from the idiots in charge. On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This story gets funnier and funnier. Now SF's DA has published a list of the city's most sensitive usernames and passwords as "evidence" in a court filing. Extreme cluelessness. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
They effectively proved that the fellow was right to with hold that information from the idiots in charge. On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This story gets funnier and funnier. Now SF's DA has published a list of > the city's most sensitive usernames and passwords as "evidence" in a > court filing. > > Extreme cluelessness. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
SF is well on its way to receiving the Town that least matters anymore. From it's Mayor on down they are just far out of it to really matter. Stewart At 07:01 PM 7/28/2008, you wrote: This story gets funnier and funnier. Now SF's DA has published a list of the city's most sensitive usernames and passwords as "evidence" in a court filing. Extreme cluelessness. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
This story gets funnier and funnier. Now SF's DA has published a list of the city's most sensitive usernames and passwords as "evidence" in a court filing. Extreme cluelessness. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
After all, the systems are not your personal property. No they aren't and this is very hard for some to accept. Mr. Childs would have lasted about 12 minutes at a major US carrier. Maybe less. He got away with a lot because his management was either not there or unaware, apparently. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
> How about being so protective of your hardware that you are willing to go > to jail to keep others from molesting it? This is a fascinating story... I think, there's enough blame to go around for everyone in this story. Terry Childs set up a network by himself, and didn't let any of his collegues review the plans for it, let alone administer the network. The worst part is that his supervisors knew about it and everyone in the IT shop accepted it. Sure, someone else asked the question "what happens when he gets hit by a truck" but Childs himself was not responsible enough to ask it of himself. If he loved his "baby" so much, he should have, at least, left an insurance policy ... an envelop with configs, diagrams, passwords etc so that the network could be maintained when he's not around. No one is so smart that they can't bounce ideas with his/her collegues. No single admin, no matter how smart and dedicated he is, should be the sole admin for a critical piece of infrastructure. That's just a major failure in the part of the management. And, his peers should have pointed that out to the management in no uncertain terms. I have worked with someone like that. (He was a Unix admin, not a Cisco admin, so I know he didn't change his name to Terry Childs :-)) Just like Childs, he worked 24x7x365. Never took a vacation. Considered by others (and himself) to be _the_ jack of all trades. Had a terrible temper. No one else had admin accounts for "his" systems. No one questioned his methods. But, finally, when the management changed, he was forced to let others in. Some systems were taken away from him and given to other people to manage. He later left and we spent years cleaning up his messes, his not-so-intelligent design decisions, his unnecessary complications, etc. No one said that he wasn't a dedicated worker. But we, as a unit, are better off now that he is gone. Looks like the same thing happened at the SF mayor's office. The new Security guy saw Childs as a single point of failure and asked for the keys to the kingdom. Some people will argue that the old network/mainframe/unix admin types are uber-geeks who'd rather get the job done than deal with company policies and procedures. I'd say no. Since the time of DARPA and ARPA, those geeks saw the need for RFCs, the standards, the openness. If you are so much of a geek that you'd rather talk to machines than to people, then by all means, use e-mail, IM, internal wikis, message boards, whatever to communicate with your peers and let them know what you are doing and how they can admin/manage the system. After all, the systems are not your personal property. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
Come now, don't try to pass this crap off like that. Admittedly, our current national administration has broken government to a point where more people than ever have no faith in it. But it doesn't have to be like this. What this government has moved toward is "Don't worry, we're the corporation and we're just here to screw you." We can only hope that government can get back to doing things _for the people_, instead of for the corporations. Maybe? I know the corporations don't know or care what's best for the people. Oh, sorry. I'm off topic. P.S. Maybe we should change the subject to be "Don't worry, we're the government and we're here to help" or "After reading about this debacle, do you really want to trust your government as knowing what's 'best' for you?" :-) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
It gets even better Some of the evidence of malfeasance presented against Childs are modems (analog and DSL) that allowed "backdoor access" to the network. A strong piece of evidence used in obtaining the arrest warrant was Childs' pager that received a message that came "from one of the routers on the network". And I love this from "The Network as art": "If the FiberWAN network is as complex as it appears to be, are there CCIE-level forensic networking experts employed or contracted by the San Francisco police department?" "Lawyer says Client was protecting City's code" http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/22/BAGF11T91U.D TL "San Francisco's Mayor gets back keys to network" http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/07/23/San_Franciscos_mayor_gets_back _keys_to_the_network_2.html "The network as art" http://weblog.infoworld.com/venezia/archives/017907.html Larry P.S. Maybe we should change the subject to be "Don't worry, we're the government and we're here to help" or "After reading about this debacle, do you really want to trust your government as knowing what's 'best' for you?" :-) -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Piwowar Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 7:02 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: [CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware? How about being so protective of your hardware that you are willing to go to jail to keep others from molesting it? This is a fascinating story... The Story Behind San Francisco's Rogue Network Admin "Last Sunday, Terry Childs, a network administrator employed by the City of San Francisco, was arrested and taken into custody..." http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/148669-1/the_story_behind_ san _franciscos_rogue_network_admin.html * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Emotional About (Cisco) Hardware?
How about being so protective of your hardware that you are willing to go to jail to keep others from molesting it? This is a fascinating story... The Story Behind San Francisco's Rogue Network Admin "Last Sunday, Terry Childs, a network administrator employed by the City of San Francisco, was arrested and taken into custody..." http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/148669-1/the_story_behind_san _franciscos_rogue_network_admin.html * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
