Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
Constance, I have worked with Excel for two decades, and I can tell you that it will easily handle 5000 records on a STABLE machine. But I don't think the conversion is a good idea because of experiences I have had with 'systems' built on top of Excel Spreadsheets, Access DB, and MS Word. These systems are built out of macros and Visual Basic to replicate the features that are already included in a relational database system (RDS). When an RDS detects a dependency in it's base, it has internal tools to resolve and repair itself (these things happen when the power surges or fails). The Microsoft suite is modular to the point of where these repairs must be performed by a knowledgeable tech (YOU). My biggest issues reside within my recent observations of Microsoft products running on various versions of MS operating systems. It appears to me that they may be (intentionally or unintentionally) disabling functions in THEIR OWN products through the 'security updates', forcing you to activate the 'upgrade mill' (This feature requires the newer operating system, that opsys won't run you your old hardware very well). Case in point: I wanted to migrate from my old machine to Vista. Vista came with Windows Mail... the Outlook Express will not install on Vista. Fine with me, except that Windows Mail fights with Norton Anti-Virus regularly corrupting my files and losing all my new email, so I abandoned it for Thunderbird. Case2: I still use Excel97 even though I have Excel 2003 and Excel 2007... it's fast, I paid for it, and it does exactly what I want it to do. Today, I noticed that the 'ToolsOptions' feature was causing the program to abort under XP... all other features work perfectly. The MS Error Reporting says no longer supported... try upgrading to a newer version. I do not see this type of behavior with my old Non-MS products. This may hark back to the old days when MS was using 'unpublished opsys routines' to make their product faster than competitors, for which they were eventually sued (still claiming they did not). Case3: Office 2007 - completely rewrote the user interface... lost capability to send Mail Merge Email. It's there, but I didn't get a PHD from Microsoft to figure out how to use it. I have spent about 120 hours studying it, but I think I need some additional courses in Microsoft Enterprise Networking to make this simple feature work. In the meantime, I went back to Office97 on XP. It works well. I have heard from several experienced MSOFFICE users that could not figure out how to print or save a document from Office 2007 without about 30 minutes of bumbling around. I have wasted many hours trying to kick out a simple job because Microsoft moved a feature to another menu. Microsoft's current direction reminds me of the IBM philosophy from the early 80's... Sure we can do it... do you have the money? - Brian Constance Warner wrote: Would an excel spreadsheet this size be stable or usable? Has anyone else had experience with databases of this size? And does anyone else have any talking points on why it's a bad idea to replace a perfectly reliable, crash-proof database with an Excel spreadsheet? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
Can't excel just be setup as the interface to the database which would allow the excel-centric users to be happy without stomping on the structure. --- Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think before I let them flatten it I'd consider online solutions too. Does Google offer a real database app now? Current item of interest is blist.com which provides a happy Flash interface to PostgreSQL. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived Checkout One Laptop Per Child project laptop.org * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
Can't excel just be setup as the interface to the database which would allow the excel-centric users to be happy without stomping on the structure. Excel can import, but read only access may not suffice. They could get read-write access by simply accessing the database directly via a web browser. But I don't think it is really an access issue. Based on previous incidents I think that access is not the point. Some people seek personal validation by doing all their computing with Microfoft products. They give you this deer in the headlights look whenever a non-MS product is mentioned. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
One database has 18 fields, the other 24; the fields are of different types, and all the fields are fully searchable, both singly and in combination with other fields. There are multiple layouts... My co-workers think that an Excel spreadsheet--with four fields--is just fine to keep track of the documents that will be posted online. Very interesting. If that is what they think they need then there is really no arguing with them. They get a list with four fields. That will work fine in Excel. As to the rest of the information, you will be throwing it away and they will have no way to manage those aspects of the documents. If they have made a mistake about this there will probably be no easy way to go back. It will just be too expensive to reconstruct what they have discarded. Or maybe you have been working too hard. Give them their four fields and spend the rest of the day surfing boingboing.net * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
I think before I let them flatten it I'd consider online solutions too. Does Google offer a real database app now? Current item of interest is blist.com which provides a happy Flash interface to PostgreSQL. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
I think it's a given that converting to Excel format will flatten the heck out of this db. In a way that might require custom coding to recover from. But maybe they just want to use Excel for output/conversion to web format? Nothing wrong with that, as long as the db is intact. Access should be able to handle that db, and will be easier to convert to open source in the future. I think before I let them flatten it I'd consider online solutions too. Does Google offer a real database app now? On Feb 7, 2008 12:06 PM, Constance Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My co-workers think that an Excel spreadsheet--with four fields--is just fine to keep track of the documents that will be posted online. They don't think that ANY database--or Excel, either--is needed to keep track of all the thousands of other documents. (Yeah, I know it's weird. But it's a good weird; it makes me try harder to find another job, which is not an easy task in this economy.) * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
One database has 18 fields, the other 24; the fields are of different types, and all the fields are fully searchable, both singly and in combination with other fields. There are multiple layouts for each database, each with a different function. I use them to keep track of thousands of documents in hard copy and electronic form. My co-workers think that an Excel spreadsheet--with four fields--is just fine to keep track of the documents that will be posted online. They don't think that ANY database--or Excel, either--is needed to keep track of all the thousands of other documents. (Yeah, I know it's weird. But it's a good weird; it makes me try harder to find another job, which is not an easy task in this economy.) --Constance -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Announcements and Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Piwowar Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:12 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel? For nine years, I've been working with two FileMaker Pro databases that keep track of several thousand documents (including titles, descriptions, categories, authors, etc.). They've been virtually crash-proof and easy to modify. There are nearly 5,000 records (on separate pages) in these databases. You did not state whether these files were related or just two flat files. If what you have is a relational database then moving it to Excel is a very bad idea. Do your FMP databases do much data validation? This is harder to implement this in Excel and you will be much more likely to have bad data creeping into your database. You did not mention how many fields each record has and how the user relates to the information. Is it important to see the contents of many fields at a glance or is it okay to string them out into long rows. Are they prepared to put in the labor to create forms? The basic Excel forms are a bad joke. If they need forms of any complexity MS will quickly suck them into Access. So you will be back in a database. Only difference is that instead of using a good database you will be using a terrible database. You did not mention if you have any large text fields. Excel limits fields to 255 characters, FMP's limit is 65,000. Do you need to do heavy data analysis on the data in the databases? Excel does this better with its graphing and pivot tables. Would an excel spreadsheet this size be stable or usable? Has anyone else had experience with databases of this size? 5,000 is not a big number unless there are many fields per record. I have made Excel spreadsheets with close to 65,000 rows and almost 200 columns. Excel was very slow and unstable during data import, but afterwards settled down and worked just fine. And does anyone else have any talking points on why it's a bad idea to replace a perfectly reliable, crash-proof database with an Excel spreadsheet? Ultimately the choice depends on how the data is to be used. If is just a big table with a few columns then Excel will do fine. If there are many fields per record they may soon find themselves hamstrung. They may find that information that is easy to view with a database query will take more work to extract in a spreadsheet. -- Thomas Piwowar - Thomas J. Piwowar Associates, Inc. electronic publishing training and consulting 1710 Rhode Island Ave NW - Washington DC - 20036 V:202-223-6813 - Fx:202-223-5059 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.tjpa.com -- * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New
[CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
For nine years, I've been working with two FileMaker Pro databases that keep track of several thousand documents (including titles, descriptions, categories, authors, etc.). They've been virtually crash-proof and easy to modify. There are nearly 5,000 records (on separate pages) in these databases. Now, several people at work-one of whom is my boss-want to replace all this with an excel spreadsheet. One co-worker is especially vehement about this: he isn't really my boss, but he's powerful in the organization, and he's the type of person who's always right. I protested that an excel spreadsheet this size would not be stable (even if half the records were weeded out as being no longer necessary). Would an excel spreadsheet this size be stable or usable? Has anyone else had experience with databases of this size? And does anyone else have any talking points on why it's a bad idea to replace a perfectly reliable, crash-proof database with an Excel spreadsheet? --Constance Warner * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
You can access / modify the DB one record at a time vs. all or nothing with a spreadsheet. You can create much more useful / easy queries with the DB than with a spreadsheet. Because if they really are that stupid you won't still be working there to help them out, having fled to a better, more sane workplace? ;^) Hope this helps, and that reason three is an option for you. On Feb 6, 2008, at 3:13 PM, Constance Warner wrote: And does anyone else have any talking points on why it's a bad idea to replace a perfectly reliable, crash-proof database with an Excel spreadsheet? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
Not everyone is willing to learn how to drive a stick shift. Fred Holmes At 03:44 PM 2/6/2008, Matthew Taylor wrote: You can access / modify the DB one record at a time vs. all or nothing with a spreadsheet. You can create much more useful / easy queries with the DB than with a spreadsheet. Because if they really are that stupid you won't still be working there to help them out, having fled to a better, more sane workplace? ;^) Hope this helps, and that reason three is an option for you. On Feb 6, 2008, at 3:13 PM, Constance Warner wrote: And does anyone else have any talking points on why it's a bad idea to replace a perfectly reliable, crash-proof database with an Excel spreadsheet? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
But everyone who might someday need to drive one in an emergency should know how. To further beat the analogy into the ground, if you can't drive a stick shift, you can't play with the really fun toys. Back to the subject, how is keeping a database IN a database driving a stick shift? On Feb 6, 2008, at 4:13 PM, Fred Holmes wrote: Not everyone is willing to learn how to drive a stick shift. Fred Holmes At 03:44 PM 2/6/2008, Matthew Taylor wrote: You can access / modify the DB one record at a time vs. all or nothing with a spreadsheet. You can create much more useful / easy queries with the DB than with a spreadsheet. Because if they really are that stupid you won't still be working there to help them out, having fled to a better, more sane workplace? ;^) Hope this helps, and that reason three is an option for you. On Feb 6, 2008, at 3:13 PM, Constance Warner wrote: And does anyone else have any talking points on why it's a bad idea to replace a perfectly reliable, crash-proof database with an Excel spreadsheet? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
Many thanks for the talking points! And as for #3-- Because if they really are that stupid you won't still be working there to help them out, having fled to a better, more sane workplace? ;^) That one struck a chord! Actually, I AM looking for a better, more sane workplace, if anyone knows of one that's looking. --Constance on behalf of; Matthew Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can access / modify the DB one record at a time vs. all or nothing with a spreadsheet. You can create much more useful / easy queries with the DB than with a spreadsheet. Because if they really are that stupid you won't still be working there to help them out, having fled to a better, more sane workplace? ;^) Hope this helps, and that reason three is an option for you. On Feb 6, 2008, at 3:13 PM, Constance Warner wrote: And does anyone else have any talking points on why it's a bad idea to replace a perfectly reliable, crash-proof database with an Excel spreadsheet? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
FileMaker does allow you to export into Excel--I tried it just now to make sure it worked. The one advantage of Excel--that everybody has it--isn't so important in this case. I would be the only one working with the files, because my co-workers don't want to do any of the grunt work--classification of documents, putting the information in a database format, and getting the documents ready to be posted online. (Considering the damage that has been done to my department in the past by people who didn't know what they were doing, it's probably just as well that nobody else will be working on the Excel files.) I have had training in Excel but haven't worked with it much. I would have to find an Excel guru to customize the records for me; not that I mind learning more about apps--it's often the one bright spot of my job. But they want the project done YESTERDAY--no time to learn a bunch of new stuff. Still, it's nice to know that some improvements could be made if I HAD to use Excel instead of a real database. --Constance Dr. Constance Warner PRIMA Information Services 703-253-1271 Fax: 703-739-0200 PRIMA's Information Services provides samples of various materials from public entity risk management programs. The material provided is offered for informational purposes only and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Association. The material is not intended as a model, and its distribution does not constitute a PRIMA endorsement of the material. As a matter of ordinary prudence, one should always take anti-virus precautions on all incoming documents from any source. -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Announcements and Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred Holmes Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:57 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel? Does Filemaker Pro allow for 1) exporting the database to Excel, and 2) updating the database from Excel? A good one certainly would. Do the others just read your database, or do they post to it as well? I would think that Excel would do just fine, although I haven't used one that large. (I'm working on getting there.) The real advantage of Excel, that I have found, is that a lot of people have it on their machine and know how to use it, while most people never or seldom use a database, and struggle with its interface if they want to do anything more than eyeball it. However, the search/filter function of a real database is far superior to that which is built into Excel -- do you need to do searches that only a good database search/filter engine can do? One can build a userform in Excel that will present each record on multiple lines so that an entire record is readily readable without any scrolling. It emulates the Access interface. Stability should be mostly dependent upon how much RAM and swap file space you have in the machines that are running the spreadsheet. Fred Holmes ** * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
At 04:37 PM 2/6/2008, Matthew Taylor wrote: Back to the subject, how is keeping a database IN a database driving a stick shift? The database interface is more difficult to set up and use, although I guess the wizards should be pretty good by now. spreadsheet column headings for the fields and just typing stuff into cells is pretty intuitive. If it's a flat file database, a spreadsheet that works is just as good as a real database. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
Is this about the database for the Online Buyers Guide that I find on the PRIMA web site (http://www.primacentral.org/), but which is accessible to members only? Or is it something that is for internal use only? Fred Holmes * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
The Public Risk Management Association wants to use Excel as a database? Makes you want to say, Hmmm... g cb On Feb 6, 2008, at 3:13 PM, Constance Warner wrote: And does anyone else have any talking points on why it's a bad idea to replace a perfectly reliable, crash-proof database with an Excel spreadsheet? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
So what is the format that the web site manager/developer/webmaster would like to see the database be in? It's best to make it whatever he/she (thinks it) needs. Fred Holmes At 05:58 PM 2/6/2008, Constance Warner wrote: It's actually about something that isn't yet available for online use, but which is supposed to be available on April 1. It's going to be an online version of a risk management document library, now called PRIMAfacts. (You can see a description of it under the Publications and Resources tab. --Constance Dr. Constance Warner PRIMA Information Services 703-253-1271 Fax: 703-739-0200 PRIMA's Information Services provides samples of various materials from public entity risk management programs. The material provided is offered for informational purposes only and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Association. The material is not intended as a model, and its distribution does not constitute a PRIMA endorsement of the material. As a matter of ordinary prudence, one should always take anti-virus precautions on all incoming documents from any source. -Original Message- From: Fred Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:48 PM To: Computer Guys Announcements and Discussion List Cc: Constance Warner Subject: Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel? Is this about the database for the Online Buyers Guide that I find on the PRIMA web site (http://www.primacentral.org/), but which is accessible to members only? Or is it something that is for internal use only? Fred Holmes * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] How stable is Excel?
For nine years, I've been working with two FileMaker Pro databases that keep track of several thousand documents (including titles, descriptions, categories, authors, etc.). They've been virtually crash-proof and easy to modify. There are nearly 5,000 records (on separate pages) in these databases. You did not state whether these files were related or just two flat files. If what you have is a relational database then moving it to Excel is a very bad idea. Do your FMP databases do much data validation? This is harder to implement this in Excel and you will be much more likely to have bad data creeping into your database. You did not mention how many fields each record has and how the user relates to the information. Is it important to see the contents of many fields at a glance or is it okay to string them out into long rows. Are they prepared to put in the labor to create forms? The basic Excel forms are a bad joke. If they need forms of any complexity MS will quickly suck them into Access. So you will be back in a database. Only difference is that instead of using a good database you will be using a terrible database. You did not mention if you have any large text fields. Excel limits fields to 255 characters, FMP's limit is 65,000. Do you need to do heavy data analysis on the data in the databases? Excel does this better with its graphing and pivot tables. Would an excel spreadsheet this size be stable or usable? Has anyone else had experience with databases of this size? 5,000 is not a big number unless there are many fields per record. I have made Excel spreadsheets with close to 65,000 rows and almost 200 columns. Excel was very slow and unstable during data import, but afterwards settled down and worked just fine. And does anyone else have any talking points on why it's a bad idea to replace a perfectly reliable, crash-proof database with an Excel spreadsheet? Ultimately the choice depends on how the data is to be used. If is just a big table with a few columns then Excel will do fine. If there are many fields per record they may soon find themselves hamstrung. They may find that information that is easy to view with a database query will take more work to extract in a spreadsheet. -- Thomas Piwowar - Thomas J. Piwowar Associates, Inc. electronic publishing training and consulting 1710 Rhode Island Ave NW - Washington DC - 20036 V:202-223-6813 - Fx:202-223-5059 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.tjpa.com -- * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
