On Mar 12, 2010, at 10:15 AM, Chris Dunford wrote:
Well, now that this turns out to be wrong, suddenly the real issue
isn't that XP users are screwed, it's that it's a kluge.
The real issue has been in the subject line all along. It is still true.
> And you can't see that this is an awful kluge? Hardware vendors should
> not have to go Rube Goldberg to work around a mess created my the
> operating system vendor.
Did I see something moving out of the corner of my eye? Ah, yes, it's the
goalposts again.
Your post was about what a horrible f
On Mar 12, 2010, at 1:35 AM, mike wrote:
I thought macs stayed in service longer than PC's?
They do, but Mac users keep their OSs up to date because Apple charges
a reasonable upgrade fee and the upgrade is easy to install. Mac
owners are never faced with formatting their drives just to upg
On Mar 11, 2010, at 11:33 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:
The 512-byte sectors are emulated. That's what the OS sees.
Physically, they're 4K sectors.
And you can't see that this is an awful kluge? Hardware vendors should
not have to go Rube Goldberg to work around a mess created my the
operating
On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:56 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
You have a point but only because Apple has made the old hardware
obsolete.
Macs stay in service far longer than PCs. You know that. Why introduce
a red herring? Please stay honest and don't go for debating points.
This is a softwar
Okay, you are talking pricing. Got it. My posts were a bit more
general, so I was not thinking (or writing) about prices.
Thank you,
Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
Read what I wrote.
1.5 are at that price level. I never said 2 TB are not here. But
right now they are at a premium pr
> Chris, you misunderstand RMW. Your jumper setting does not get around
> it. Bliss-based ignorance.
I understand RMW perfectly well, thank you. You are not paying attention,
apparently.
There are two issues.
1. There is a performance penalty for writes of < 4K due to RMW. But, as the
very a
Read what I wrote.
1.5 are at that price level. I never said 2 TB are not here. But
right now they are at a premium price.
I saw a 1.5 TB drive advertised for $99.00 so I expect 2 TB drives to
be at that price by next year.
There is a price mark that determines how much those drives will
: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] M$'s HD Mess
> This kind of deceit is a problem if software tries to write less than
> 4096 bytes at a time.
Yes, but NTFS uses 4K clusters. To the best of my knowledge, it never
writes 512-byte sectors. (And even if it did, the vast
> This kind of deceit is a problem if software tries to write less than
> 4096 bytes at a time.
Yes, but NTFS uses 4K clusters. To the best of my knowledge, it never writes
512-byte sectors. (And even if it did, the vast majority of writes in typical
use would tend to be large--only the last,
pa
Sure, but this ignore the discussion in the Ars article of the penalty:
RMW (read, modify, write). Quoting from the Ars article:
"And so it was that last September (and it's this that makes it a little
surprising that the BBC and other outlets are talking about the issue
now, but it's one that ce
In the 3.5" format, 2 TB disk drives are already here. Here is a review
for one model:
http://www.storagereview.com/seagate_constellation_es_2tb_review
Thank you,
Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
Right now 1.5 TB drives are at the price level to make them a
consumer level drive.
Withi
I thought macs stayed in service longer than PC's?
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 6:41 PM, tjpa wrote:
> On Mar 11, 2010, at 7:54 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:
>
>> In short, never updating the older version is superior to updating it but
>> omitting a fix for a drive type that nobody running XP actually ha
> > Ah. Well, WD sees it differently:
>
> Or you and they are feeding us BS.
>
> Simple math on the drive specs shows these drives still have only 512B
> sectors.
> http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=763
>
> Formatted Capacity: 1,000,204 MB
> User Sectors Per Drive: 1
You have a point but only because Apple has made the old hardware obsolete.
Again MS does not control the hardware.
However they should make a fix for this.
Right now 1.5 TB drives are at the price level to make them a
consumer level drive.
Within a year 2 TB drives will be there.
Kind of r
On Mar 11, 2010, at 7:54 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:
In short, never updating the older version is superior to updating
it but omitting a fix for a drive type that nobody running XP
actually has.
Big difference. You are comparing Apple's support of an old OS version
that almost nobody uses to
On Mar 11, 2010, at 7:33 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:
Ah. Well, WD sees it differently:
Or you and they are feeding us BS.
Simple math on the drive specs shows these drives still have only 512B
sectors.
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=763
Formatted Capacity: 1,00
> > Just to be clear, Apple supported EFI since 2006...XP came out in
> > 2001...the
> > next major update to XP which was Vista supports EFI and the larger
> > disks.
> > All those still using older macs are out in the cold too...not that
> > I think
> > it will affect anyone either way.
>
>
> J
> False. And downright rude.
Right. That was rude. But consistently referring to everyone who doesn't share
your obsessive hatred of MS as "sheeple", "lapdogs", or "M$ minions", nothing
rude about any of that, right?
As to "false", I already corrected the misstatement. Nice of you to acknowledg
Just to be clear, as of the end of February 2010, Windows XP is the
most widely used operating system in the world with a 58.4% market
share.
*
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On Mar 11, 2010, at 6:13 PM, mike wrote:
Just to be clear, Apple supported EFI since 2006...XP came out in
2001...the
next major update to XP which was Vista supports EFI and the larger
disks.
All those still using older macs are out in the cold too...not that
I think
it will affect anyone
Just to be clear, Apple supported EFI since 2006...XP came out in 2001...the
next major update to XP which was Vista supports EFI and the larger disks.
All those still using older macs are out in the cold too...not that I think
it will affect anyone either way.
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 2:34 PM, tjp
On Mar 11, 2010, at 1:21 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:
Your sad little summary fails, oddly, to mention that the ONLY
version this affects is XP...
False. And downright rude.
, now nearly a decade old. Vista, Server 2008, and Win7 are all just
fine. So what "failed to engineer a smooth
transitio
On Mar 11, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:
A bit smug, Chris.
You're missing my point. Tom, who has long since lost all
credibility in commenting on MS
Chris is our home grown version of Glenn Beck. He sure doesn't like
any close brushes with reality.
*
> A bit smug, Chris.
You're missing my point. Tom, who has long since lost all credibility in
commenting on MS, clearly implied that only Apple has addressed this. That is
patently not the case.
I did, however, make one mistake. On re-reading Tom's post, I see that he did,
in fact, mention tha
A bit smug, Chris. This bites my company big-time, which has not yet
migrated from XP (about 100,000 users). I doubt it will until sometime
in 2011. That is when 4TB drives (3.5-inch FF) will be available;
beyond Window's BIOS addressing capability.
It also affects Windows Server 2003. Until
> Long article at Ars about how M$ failed to engineer a smooth
> transition for its customers to new hard drive technologies. Changes
> are necessary to take us to higher hard drive capacities. Apple took
> care of this many years ago so changes will be no big deal.
Your sad little summary fails,
Yup and Windows 7 handles it.
XP and server2003 are on their way out. (Non supported in a couple of years)
It is now up to the manufacturers to get with it.
Stewart
At 10:36 AM 3/11/2010, you wrote:
Rev, this is a BIOS issue in older versions of Windows (XP and Server
2003). Also, reams of
Ask App developers.
Stewart
At 10:44 AM 3/11/2010, you wrote:
Quoting "Rev. Stewart Marshall" :
I am Glad that Mac's do not have this, but they also have been
releasing more new releases of their OS that Windows have.
Not to mention they control the software *and* the hardware. I'm sure
it
Quoting "Rev. Stewart Marshall" :
I am Glad that Mac's do not have this, but they also have been
releasing more new releases of their OS that Windows have.
Not to mention they control the software *and* the hardware. I'm sure
it's a lot easier if you keep it all in house.
Rev, this is a BIOS issue in older versions of Windows (XP and Server
2003). Also, reams of Windows code expect a 512 byte sector. I am not
optimistic about any fixes for this. XP came out around 2000 or 2001,
didn't it?
Apple escapes partly because they don't have the BIOS issue and partly
bec
I agree the present IBM platform has been around over a decade.
MS does not control the platform but they do control the OS and they
can be more proactive in getting hardware folks to change.
I give the article that much.
I remember when I had to start dumping my old AT style cases when ATX
Apple relased the first intel/EFI based mac in 2006. Again this is much
easier when you control the entire platform as Apple does.
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall <
popoz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> That is not just an MS issue but also a hardware manufacture issue.
>
> The
I'm not following...if it's a BIOS issue, why would installing Win7 solve
it?
MS does support EFI but the advantage with Apple is they create the OS and
the hardware, this is a huge advantage to Apple.
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) <
mark.sny...@ngc.com> wrote:
> Tom,
That is not just an MS issue but also a hardware manufacture issue.
The largest consumer drives right now are 1.5 TB. If I remember XP
will be non supported in a few years.
I expect MS will come up with a programming fix for this.
XP was released when? I do not think they thought far enough
Tom, I was happy to read that OS X does not have this issue
(accommodates sectors larger than 512 bytes). The article explained
this as a BIOS issue in Windows and said Vista, W7 have work-around
fixes. MS has not endorsed replacing BIOS with EFI, have they?
Thank you,
Mark Snyder
-Origina
Long article at Ars about how M$ failed to engineer a smooth
transition for its customers to new hard drive technologies. Changes
are necessary to take us to higher hard drive capacities. Apple took
care of this many years ago so changes will be no big deal. Meanwhile
XP users will take a b
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