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There are 17 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: [CHAT] Mispronouncing Conlang Names
From: Dirk Elzinga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. Re: TECH: Sound Change program
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: A (Long) First Text in Costanice
From: Ray Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. Sayings of the Wise #1
From: caeruleancentaur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. Re: [CHAT] Mispronouncing Conlang Names
From: Keith Gaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6. [HUMOR] How many Lojbanist...
From: Gregory Gadow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7. Re: Tricky translations
From: "H. S. Teoh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8. Re: [HUMOR] How many Lojbanist...
From: Jörg Rhiemeier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9. Re: French reform (Re: C.Thalmann, & #1)
From: # 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10. Re: [HUMOR] How many Lojbanist...
From: # 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11. Fwd: Nasal Fricatives, Yes or No
From: JS Bangs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12. Re: Fwd: Nasal Fricatives, Yes or No
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13. Re: [HUMOR] How many Lojbanist...
From: Joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14. Re: [CHAT] Mispronouncing Conlang Names
From: Muke Tever <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15. Re: [HUMOR] How many Lojbanist...
From: Muke Tever <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16. Re: [CHAT] Mispronouncing Conlang Names
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17. Re: [CHAT] Mispronouncing Conlang Names
From: "Mark J. Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:47:47 -0600
From: Dirk Elzinga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [CHAT] Mispronouncing Conlang Names
On 4/13/05, David J. Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> -Miapimoquitch: "Tepa" was a whole lot simpler. I did something
> strange to this name, pronouncing it something like, [mi.'[EMAIL PROTECTED],
> but sometimes without the coda [m], and sometimes (possibly under
> the influence of the Simpsons), as [mi.'[EMAIL PROTECTED]@.kwItS].
This is really funny. The name _Miapimoquitch_ is itself an
Anglicization of a Southern Paiute original, which would have been
pronounced [mi'a?pp1"mo:kk_wI?tS]. I pronounce it (on those rare
occasions when I get to pronounce it out loud) as [mi"&pi"moUkwItS].
While Tepa (['t1Ba]) may have been simpler to pronounce, too many
people were led astray by the romanization and pronounced it
['t_hEpa], which really grated on me.
Dirk
--
Watch the reply-to!
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:53:41 -0400
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: TECH: Sound Change program
Carsten Becker wrote:
> On Tuesday 12 April 2005 22:34 CEST, Paul Bennett wrote:
>
> > $C > $Ch / _$V+h
> > h > $0 / $Ch$V+_
Doesn't the 2nd rule delete a final h after aspirating the intital C? (That
wasn't in the original formulation IIRC. I'm unfamiliar with this particular
notation, however-- and may be misreading)
----------------------------------
>
> BTW, what would be the rule to insert [delete] a stop after
> a nasal of the same POA as the nasal? I mean something like
> n/nd/_[+front] or vice versa. Just more general,
> [+nasal]/[+nasal][+stop_with_same_POA]/_[+front].
>
In standard Generative Phon. notation:
Inserting: (using "a" for "alpha", i.e. any set of features, but identical
in the segments involved):
[+nas aF] --> [+nas aF][+stop aF]/___[whatever; I don't see how +front would
be a relevant env.-- if you mean "before a front vowel" that's odd.
Another way, though rewriting 0 is/was dis-favored(1):
0 --> [+stop aF]/[+nas aF]___[whatever]
-----------------------------------
Deletion:
[+stop aF] > 0/[+nas aF]___[whatever]
This is very likely to proceed in two stages (the first of which is actually
attested in langs. of my acquaintance):
1. assimilation
[+stop (+voi) aF] > [+nas aF] /[+nas aF]__[...]
2. deletion of successive identical segments:
[+nas aF] > 0 / [+nas aF]__[...]
(Or even, if you consider your N+C as a unit phoneme, say [+stop +nas], then
very simply [+stop] > 0 /[__ +nas], so mb > m, nd > n etc.-- however, in
those langs. where NC might be considered units, the usual change is NC > C)
Rule 2 could be made more general so as to simplify all geminate C or
identical vowel sequences; or even more sweeping, to eliminate a (first or
second) C or V in _any_ CC or VV sequence.
-----------------------------------
(1) But sometimes there's just no way around it; you have to rewrite 0, e.g.
in cases where an epenthetic segment is inserted (think Engl. "intrusive r",
unless you're going to say that /-r/ is present in the underlying form of
e.g "idea"); Buginese, very oddly, inserts a /w/ between identical vowel
sequences across morpheme boundary (only a-a, e-e and i-i are affected;
u/o+a/i/e trivially so).
mélli 'buy', + -i '3sg' > mélliwi 'he buys'
bóla 'house' + -e 'def' + -e 'this' > bolaéwe 'this house'
míta 'see' + -a? '1sg' > mítawa? 'I see'
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:48:11 +0100
From: Ray Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A (Long) First Text in Costanice
On Wednesday, April 13, 2005, at 03:15 , JS Bangs wrote:
[snip]
> Thanks to everyone's welcome and compliments! It's good to be back,
> and I'm finding the list less chatty than it was last time I was here,
> which is good. And gmail makes reading the list a breeze... by far the
> best e-mail program I've ever used.
But not for those of us who _reply_ to gmails posted to Conlang :(
>> Certainly interesting - from what I can see, Costanice seems to contain
>> some archaic features lost over the other side of the Med in Greece &
>> neighboring dialects, e.g. the preposition _en_ survives (replaced by
>> 'es'
>> elsewhere) and, indeed, final -n obviously survived better here :)
>
> Most of those final n's are actually epenthetic. Final /n/ was lost in
> Costanice, just as in *here*'s Greek, but Costanice abhors hiatus at
> word-boundaries and so kept the n's where the following word begins
> with a vowel. Then that /n/ was generalized to words that originally
> had no /n/ at all, becoming a general epenthetic consonant.
Makes sense.
> I want to finish the text I'm translating right now, and then I'll get
> around to posting some phonology and grammar to the list
I hope the text is finished soon - I'm looking forward to seeing a
description of the phonology & grammar ;)
>
>> I must confess I haven't tried to pick apart the grammar in detail, but
>> it
>> seems to retain present participle with adjectival endings unlike modern
>> Greek, where it has become an indeclinable gerund. Interesting.
>
> Absolutely. There are active and passive particles, used adjectivally
> and in constructing the perfect tenses.
The passives still survive, of course, in Greek *here* - but the perfect
tenses are formed quite differently, as i guess you know. I suppose over
in the Iberian peninsular, the development of perfect tenses in Romance
would've affected Constanice.
>
>> It seems that eta survives as |e| in Costanice; it was [e:] at the end of
>> the Republic & in the early Empire, but appears to have changed to [i]
>> sometime between the 2nd & 3rd centuries CE in mainstream Koine. I guess
>> the Greek speaking enclave in Spain got separated from their eastern
>> cousins relatively early on.
>
> Eta actually does merge with /i/ in final positions, but later changes
> turned those i's back into e's.
Just those, or final /i/ generally?
> It is true, however, that eta remained
> distinct for longer, and didn't otherwise develop the way Greek eta
> did *here*.
I guess the con-history of IB will explain why (I must confess, I have
quite lost my way through the IB con-history).
>
>> I assume one should read the letters in the Castilian manner (e.g. z =
>> /T/
>> ) so I was bit surprised by Xristos. Is the initial |x| to be pronounced
>> [x]?
>
> |x| is indeed [x]. After waffling several times, I decided to go back
> to my original idea and make |x|, not |j|, the default spelling for
> /x/, so the first line should be (for example) _ten arxe_ rather than
> _ten arje_. The reasons have to do with the history of Nea Illenicia
> in IB, which I don't wish to go into here.
Right - I wondered if it was kept just for the spelling of Xristos (I must
confess Jristos would really look weird), especially as saw _arje_ in the
first line.
> The only exception to the
> rule of pronouncing like Spanish is |c|, which becomes [tS], not [T],
> before a front vowel. Pronounced this way, the text begins to sound
> more Italian... which is fine. On the other hand, I'm not happy with
> so many [tSe]s (spelled |ce|, from Grk _kai_)
Why not? It does actually occur in spoken Greek *here*, for example in
Cretan Greek (where palatalization is rife ).
> and I'm trying to think of a reason to steal the Spanish conjunction _y_.
...which is from Vulgar Latin _e_ of course :)
Personally, I have no problem with [tSe], which would presumably elide to
[tS] before a vowel, especially as it actually occurs in varieties of
spoken Greek.
Ray
===============================================
http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
===============================================
Anything is possible in the fabulous Celtic twilight,
which is not so much a twilight of the gods
as of the reason." [JRRT, "English and Welsh" ]
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:02:57 -0000
From: caeruleancentaur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Sayings of the Wise #1
µààti me munííyo, mum pòsa me tutérpe.
µààti me mu-nííy-o, mu-m pòsa me tu-térp-e.
for not 1s-lead-SUBJ, I-MOT.sg behind not 2s-walk-IMP
Do not walk behind me, for I may not follow.
µààti me musécöo, mum ànta me tutérpe.
µààti me mu-sécö-o, mu-m ànta me tu-térp-e.
for not 1s-follow-SUBJ, I-MOT.sg before not 2s-walk-IMP
Do not walk behind me, for I may not follow.
mum còma me tutérpe.
mu-m còma me tu-térp-e.
I-MOT.sg beside not 2s-walk-IMP
Do not walk behind me.
càµlëvi cáµlumë mum tulícöe.
càaµl-ë-vi cáµl-um-ë mu-m tu-lícö-e.
alone-EPEN-ADV alone-MOT.sg-EPEN 2sg-leave-IMP
Just leave me alone.
µ = m_0
ö = labialization
MOT = motive case
EPEN = epenthetic vowel
Charlie
http://wiki.frath.net/user:caeruleancentaur
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:00:01 +0100
From: Keith Gaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [CHAT] Mispronouncing Conlang Names
Roger Mills wrote:
> Brithenig was ['[EMAIL PROTECTED] at first, then [brI'Tenig] with a strong
> tendency
> to devoice that final /g/; now the horse's mouth (apologies to Andrew) tells
> us it's [...'nig]...but why? wouldn't it have derived from [bri'tan.nicus]
> or some such???
Yes, but a lot of Celtic languages tend to voice final consonants like
that, so I guess he might just be following the trend.
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:13:09 -0700
From: Gregory Gadow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [HUMOR] How many Lojbanist...
I don't know which makes me the bigger geek: that I understood the joke
enough to find it funny, or that I found it in the first place.
Q: How many Lojbanists does it take to change a broken light bulb?
A: Two. One to decide what to change it in to, and one to figure out what
kind of bulb emits broken light.
Gregg
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:40:53 -0700
From: "H. S. Teoh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tricky translations
On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 02:39:40PM +0100, Simon Clarkstone wrote:
> On 1/17/05, H. S. Teoh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The Ebisédi live in the Ferochromon. The Ferochromon is a radically
> > different universe from ours---different rules of physics, completely
> > different structure, and completely different phenomena. The only
> > familiar thing is that the Ebisédi themselves are (more or less) human
> > manifestations in the Ferochromon, and that, at least where the
> > Ebisédi live, there is a superficial resemblance to Earth. (But it is
> > only superficial.)
[...]
> Could you mail me any notes you have on FC Physics? (Either to
> CONLANG, or to ConCult(ure), or personally, or on your site) I have a
> few ideas on how to put actual *equations* to it (something
> Aristotelean).
[...]
I'm not sure if you want to attempt that before knowing some of the
wackiness that goes on behind it! :-) I myself haven't dared put any
equations to it, 'cos I fear that it simply does not behave in a
mathematical way like our universe. But in case you wanna try anyway,
here are some notes about its structure and how things are supposed to
behave in it (sorry for spamming the list, but it seems that more
people than I expect are actually interested in this crazy stuff):
The Grand Scale Structure
-------------------------
To understand Ferochromon physics, I believe one needs to understand
the structure of the Ferochromon, and what it's made of.
The Ferochromon consists of 3 "layers": the Hyperether, the Ethers,
and the Realms.[1] The Realms are where the Ebisédi live, and is
approximately 3-dimensional space.[2] There are 3 Realms in total, and
each Realm has a corresponding Ether. From the perspective of the
Realm, the Ether looks to be just parallel space, but it is actually a
higher-dimensional space on which the Realm is a 3-brane. The 3
Ethers corresponding to each of the 3 Realms meet at the Hyperether,
which is yet a higher-dimensional space.
[1] (These terms are crude terms I used before I ever thought about
naming them in an actual conlang, so you'll have to put up with my
(ab)use of them.)
[2] I say approximately because one has to take into account some
weird dimensional stuff that goes on with it. More on this later.
The Hyperether
--------------
Structure-wise, the Hyperether is rather odd: it is dipolar, and has
two opposite points at infinity. Yet these two points meet at
something called the Apex, from which all matter originate and to
which all matter converge. One of the poles is where matter is
injected into the Ferochromon (and I use the term exclusive of the
Apex), and is called the Divergence Point, and the other is where
matter re-enters the Apex, called the Convergence Point. On the
hyperplane between these two infinity-points and perpendicular to them
lie the joining points with the Ethers.
Now, before I go on with how the Ethers are joined to the Hyperether,
it is perhaps appropriate to discuss the Ferochromon Element (FE).
The Ferochromon Element
-----------------------
The Ferochromon Element (FE) is the constituent of all non-living
matter in the Ferochromon. It is, in fact, not only matter, but also
space itself, and force itself. It is the building block of the
Ferochromon itself. At the Apex, the FE is at infinite energy,[3] and
so is simultaneously matter, force, and space. The FE's injected into
the Ferochromon at the Divergence Point are themselves the space in
which they inhabit, and are themselves the force by which they diverge
into the rest of the Hyperether. As they leave the Divergence Point,
however, they lose energy, and as they do so, they begin to diverge in
function: some FE's begin to be permanently matter, others permanently
space, and the rest permanently force. (Yes, force is objectified.)
The "middle" section of the Hyperether is where this slightly
lower-energy form of FE inhabits. Under the action of the forces
(which are just FE's themselves in their force function), the FE's
eventually converge on the Convergence Point, where they regain the
energy they lost, and blend into the simultaneous matter-space-force
element again, before they are reabsorbed into the Apex.
[3] n.b. I use "energy" here in a crude sense... it is not the same
quantity as in our universe.
Now, in the "cooler" section between the two Hyperether poles, there
is an outer brane which is at a lower energy than the rest of the
Hyperether. This lower energy prompts a further split of the FE's:
- The matter FE's now exhibit 3 distinct colors, red, green, and blue
- The force FE's now exhibit 3 modes: divergence, convergence, and
transmittence.[4] I shall call these "dynamons" to avoid confusion
with forces in our universe.
- The space FE's, which I shall call "lattices" (for historical
reasons), split into 3 "flavors".
[4] You will note that these functions have been seen already, in the
Divergence and Convergence Points, and in the flow of FE from one to
the other. It is just that now, specific FE's are "locked" into each
function.
Note that there is a vague correspondence between red, green, blue;
divergence, convergence, transmittence, and the 3 "flavors" of
lattice. They are, in fact, the same property of the FE that is
exhibited differently because of the difference in function (matter,
force, space).
This last splitting of space (lattice) into 3 "flavors" give rise to
the 3 Ethers. I like to think of it as the 3 Ethers "precipitating"
out of the Hyperether. As such, they are lower-dimensional spaces, and
are in lower energy. So, if you will, you can think of the Hyperether
has having (hyper)trigonal-bipyramidal structure, with the two apices
corresponding to the two infinity points, and the 3 equatorial edges
corresponding to the 3 Ethers.
The Ethers
----------
In the Ethers, there is a gradient of high energy regions to low
energy regions. Somewhere in between is another transition point,
where an FE property I call "coherence" no longer holds.
Coherence is a property by which adjacent FE's will change in the same
way (keep in phase, if you will). Coherence reigns strong at high
energies; so in the Hyperether, you don't get a mishmash of random
clouds of matter as one might imagine. Instead, you get literally
universe-scale regions of morphing matter, where morphing patterns
propagate in universe-wide waves. Coherence is what dictates the
dipolar structure of the Hyperether: it dictates that the force
function of FE's around the Divergence Point be consistently
divergent, and around the Convergence Point consistently convergent,
and in between, consistently transmittent. Coherence is what keeps
each of the 3 Ethers in one piece: all the lattices in an Ether are in
the same "flavor". Otherwise, the Hyperether would be multipolar, and
there would be a multitude of fragmentary Ethers.
At the transition point in the Ethers, Coherence ceases to hold with
matter and the dynamons (forces). Actually, it ceases first with
matter and then with dynamons, and eventually with lattices (space)
themselves, but I'm simplifying it for the sake of this discussion.
Coherence first ceases in matter, then in dynamons (force), and at a
much lower energy, in lattices (space). The net result in any case is
that matter now exists as scattered clouds of superhot plasma,[5]
because the decoherent dynamons (forces) have now split off into many
small regions, like a mosaic.
[5] Matter is rather more complex, I shall discuss the phases of
matter separately.
The Realms
----------
At the farthest reaches of the Ethers where the energy level drops
very low, the lattices (space) that make up the Ether begin to
crystallize. In the earliest days of the Ferochromon, this was in
scattered, diverse regions; but over a very long time, they have grown
and merged together at the outer boundary of each Ether, to form the 3
habitable Realms. The Realms are of a lower dimension than the Ethers,
but they are still growing from the continual crystallization.
It might be relevant to note at this point that this is not Euclidean
geometry; even though each Realm is formed by the accumulation of
crystallized lattice (space) from its Ether, every point of space in
the Realm is still directly in contact with the low-energy boundary of
the Ether where the crystallization is happening. Although I like to
think of the process as "precipitation", perhaps a better analogy
would be a growing fruit, where the skin, the Realm brane, is
expanding by the growth of the fruit, the Ether. The growth of the
skin is caused by the increase of volume in the fruit. A better
analogy yet might be a swelling lava ball: the lava in contact with
the air crystallizes into rock, but because there is continuous
intrusion of more lava, the surface is breaking up with new lava
forming new "skin" between the cracks, and the thickness of the skin
does not increase. In the Realms, of course, there really is no
"cracking", but you get the point: the Realms are increasing in volume
but not in "thickness" relative to the Ether, so every point in the
Realm remains in contact with the Ether.
The Realms are the (more-or-less) 3-dimensional spaces in which the
Ebisédi live.
Now, the lattices (space) in the Realms are crystallized lattice, and
are thus in a different phase from the lattices in the Ether.
Therefore, matter cannot freely flow between the Realm and the Ether.
When the Realms first formed, some matter, along with some forces,
were trapped inside. This matter exist as regions of clouds and
streams of "flow" in the "sky", across the Realm. It is scattered and
thus does not form any habitable land.
However, the separation between Realm and Ether is not permanent;
sometimes, a high-energy dynamon (force) happens to be on a path that
strikes the Realm-Ether boundary with sufficient energy that a small
part of the Realm lattices (space) partially de-crystallizes, and
becomes permeable to flow of matter. Depending on what type of dynamon
(force) it happens to be, this will trigger either in influx of
matter into the Realm, or a draining of matter from the Realm. You can
think of it as the dynamon "punching a hole" in the Realm. This gives
rise to _Ka'l3ri_ (the (in)famous starbursts that messed up a Conlang
relay or two :-P), and _vyy'i_ (the blackhole-like whirlpools used as
trashcans). Thus, matter can be injected into the Realm from the
Ether, or drained out of the Realm back into the Ether.
The matter that gets injected into the Realm is, of course, at very
high energies, and is at a phase I call "hyperplasma". This matter
explodes from the center of the _Ka'l3ri_ (the interface point with
the Ether where partial decrystallization happened), and then starts
to lose energy as radial distance increases. Eventually, it coalesces
into spherical shells around the _Ka'l3ri_. However, due to internal
pressure, these shells usually don't last very long, especially when
the rate of matter intrusion from the Ether is variable. They usually
break up into small splinters with irregular polyhedral shapes. These
are the Landmasses on which the Ebisédi live. There are the rare Giant
Continents, which are intact spherical shells, but these are very
rare.
In any one period of time, there are different sets of active
_Ka'l3ri_ and _vyy'i_; the _Ka'l3ri_ would create shells of matter
that are subsequently partially (or completely) consumed by a _vyy'i_,
or broken up by matter ejected from another _Ka'l3ri_, and so forth.
This eventually produced the scattered landmasses, with no discernible
relationship with each other, that the Ebisédi inhabit.
Phases of Matter
----------------
The above was a very crude overview of the structure of the
Ferochromon. Now we look in greater detail at how matter works. Matter
in Ferochromon has 3 inherent characteristics: color, shape, and
extent. These characteristics depend on the energy level (and
sometimes, history) of the matter, and so I've called them "phases":
1) At the very highest energy, matter is indistinguishible from space
and force. In fact, it is simultaneously matter, space, and force.
This is the state of the FE when it freshly emerges from the Apex.
2) What is of more interest, of course, is in the middle region of the
Hyperether, where matter begins to be distinct from space and force.
At this phase, matter may be said to be "white" - it is simultaneously
red, green, and blue. Each "particle" of matter, if you can call it
that, is of indeterminate shape, and of unlimited extent.[6] This
phase may be called the "super-hyperplasmic" state.
[6] By "unlimited extent", I mean that it can occupy a miniscule
amount of space, or it can decide to occupy half the Hyperether, as it
sees fit. This is entire random, of course, but with the proviso that
it must obey Coherence.
3) At around the the pointp[7] where the Ethers begin to form
(lattices "precipitate" out of the Hyperether), matter also loses
enough energy to lose its "pure whiteness". Its 3 fundamental colors
now are distinct, and its shapes are also now distinct. Its extent
becomes limited and finite but still non-constant. It still has enough
energy to freely shift between colors, shapes, and extents. This phase
is the "hyperplasmic" state. Matter in the deeper recesses of the
Ethers are mainly hyperplasmic.
[7] After the FE splits into lattice, dynamon, and matter, the exact
energies at which their intrinsic characteristics "crystallize" become
different. So the exact point at which matter drops into the
hyperplasmic state is near but not exactly at the point where the
lattices precipitate out of the Hyperether to form the Ethers. Also,
after the lattice-dynamon-matter split, energy is no longer evenly
transferred between them, so it is quite possible to have low-energy
matter flow through high-energy space, or vice versa, for instance.
4) As matter in the Ether approach the Ether-Realm boundary, they
start to lose more energy, and may dip into the next lower phase: the
plasmic state. In this phase, their color becomes fixed. Their shapes
become well-defined, although still malleable, and their volume
becomes fixed. You might think of this as the "liquid" phase. In the
Ether, however, the liquid phase does not last very long because of
the high energy dynamons bouncing about, so it is usually only
observed as a temporary state. In the Realms, however, dynamons
(force) become localized and fixed, so matter can (and does) retain
its plasmic phase.
One property of the plasmic phase, for would-be Ferochromon physicists
to consider, is that it is a "quantum liquid". That is, a single unit
of matter in this state behaves like a liquid in and of itself: it can
flow and change its shape freely just like fluids in our universe.
However, being a quantum, it cannot be split: if you physically try to
separate it into two parts, at the point of complete separation it
will suddenly decide which side it "prefers" to be, and suddenly
vanish from the other side and moving its complete volume into the
other side. This may mean an instantaneous doubling of fluid pressure
if it is being confined in two chambers.
A "practical" effect of this is when you try to drink something by
tipping the bowl. The liquid quanta in the bowl are usually completely
interpenetrating and occupying exactly the same volume of space in the
bowl. When you tip the bowl, all of the quanta start flowing out
simultaneously. They will happily flow out of the bowl so that a part
of them remain inside (assuming you only tipped the bowl slightly)
while another part fall out. At a certain point, the part flowing over
the rim will thin out into nothing, at which point the quanta are
theatened of splitting into two each---at this point, the quanta will
suddenly decide they want to be completely on the outside of the bowl,
since that leads to lower energy, and all of a sudden you find the
soup all over your face. :-)
5) The liquid state is, unsurprisingly, not the lowest energy state
yet. A sufficiently cooled liquid will form into something I call a
"chromon" or a "color ball": it is literally a spherical ball of
matter. At this point, not only is color fixed, but shape and extent
are also completely fixed. Chroma, or colorballs, are spherical and
have a fixed radius.
Sometimes, you may find high-energy colorballs---matter quanta that
are high-energy but because of the way they are formed, does not take
on plasma characteristics. These are what many Ferochromon plants
produce as "fruits". They have the peculiar property that given the
right conditions, they will suddenly revert to the more natural,
plasma state. For example, putting them into your mouth will cause
them to suddenly revert into a liquid that the inexperienced visitor
will inadvertently swallow. Squishing them will also have the same
effect.
6) Colorballs are still only an intermediate state; there is a final
phase of matter, which is the crystalline or solid state. The crystal
state of matter, unlike lattices and dynamons, is very complex. The
shape intrinsic of the matter quantum "crystallizes" into a fixed
polyhedral shape, and the quantum becomes hardened and solid.
Sometimes, isolated colorballs may crystallize into solid spheres as
well, but this is relatively rare. Matter that crystallize together
will fuse into solid object that takes a lot of force to break apart.
These form the basis of the landmasses.
There is much more to this solid state than meets the eye, however.
Matter may not necessarily be at the lowest energy yet; and so there
are different solid phases as well. Freshly crystallized solids will
generally be of bright colors, the energy that is still retained by
the matter being expressed through its color intrinsic. Given a
sufficiently long time, however, even this energy can be lost, and
matter turns into dark shades of color often indiscernible from black.
On the other hand, Ferochromon plants also have the ability to create
"superheated" solids: crystalline matter which contains more energy
than is normally found in crystals formed by purely thermodynamical
processes. The energy "locked up" in these high-energy crystals can be
extracted with proper preparation ("cooking").
Matter, Space, Force
--------------------
While we're at it, I might as well describe briefly the mode of
interaction between matter, space, and force, the three fundamental
functions of the FE.
Matter is, well, matter, the constituents of physical objects in the
Ferochromon. Matter occupies space. However, it is not as simple as
one matter quantum per space quantum; there is a complex system
equivalent to Terran chemistry which dictates when and whether matter
can occupy the same unit of space. (Unfortunately I haven't worked out
very much of this system.)
Space in Ferochromon is quantized. A quantum of space is called a
lattice, and occupies (or rather, *creates*) a fixed volume of space.
Large tilings of lattices form the basis of space in the Realms. In
the Ether, space is actually liquid, but that's another topic that I
won't get into here. Space contains matter, and gives matter a
distinction in location. (In Ferochromon cosmology, there is a point
where locations are indistinct because lattices are indistinct;
hence the universe is simultaneously infinite and zero-sized.) Space
also acts as the intermediary between force and matter.
Force, or dynamon, is a quantum of "force" that imposes a certain
action upon matter. It is rather difficult to explain force in
Ferochromon, since it is a rather elusive object. The presence of a
dynamon will cause matter occupying the same volume of space to behave
in a particular way. For example, a divergent force causes matter to
move apart; a transmittent force causes matter to flow along, and a
convergent force causes matter to converge and spiral. One
interpretation is that dynamons impose a certain structure on the
lattice (space) they occupy, and thus matter travelling through that
lattice (space) will behave differently from when there are no
dynamons present.
Although in theory matter, space, and dynamon are distinct and
separate, the lines are sometimes a bit blurry. For example, colliding
matter create divergent dynamons and sends debris flying---and it is
hard to say if the divergent dynamons are "warping" space so that the
debris follow diverging paths, or whether the dynamons are *turning
into space* that cause as a result the separation of the debris from
each other. When one burns fuel to accelerate, it may be thought of as
the conversion of matter to dynamon, which in turn may be thought of
as converting into lattice that increases the separation of the object
from point of origin. Matter approaching each other induce convergent
dynamons that cause them to spiral. Whether actual dynamons are
created, or whether this is merely a side-effect of how lattices
behave when things travel through them, is open to question.
This last comment about spiralling objects deserves elaboration. One
feature of Ferochromon physics is that whenever two objects approach
each other (which is different from one object approaching another
stationary one, as the Ferochromic Realms have an absolute frame of
reference), their paths will curve in such a way that they spiral
inwards instead of moving along straight lines. Almost like 3D
coriolis force, if you will.
I guess at this point, I might as well outline Ferochromon mechanics
in whatever brief sketch I've worked it out.
Mechanics/Dynamics
------------------
I haven't worked it out sufficiently to fully distinguish between
mechanics/dynamics yet. But this is generally what I have so far:
- There is an absolute frame of reference in the Realms, which is
defined by the static lattices (space) that form Realm space.
- Speed, therefore, is absolute; the rate at which matter traverses
the lattices have measurable effect.
- Objects not under the action of any force will slow down as they
cross the lattices to reach new positions; so there is no inertia in
the Newton sense. However, there *is* inertia in the sense that a
massive object in motion implies a massive amount of transmittent
force involved, which means it takes a lot more to counteract that
force.
- Motion is effected through transmittent dynamons (forces). In
Ebisédian, these forces are called _l3Tai'_ [EMAIL PROTECTED]'?i]. They are
associated with a blue glow that accompanies object in fast motion.
- There are fields of divergent, transmittent, or convergent force; in
these regions, motion is *imposed* upon objects. An object that
moves into a transmittent field will begin to move along that field
until it reaches the end of the field.
- Objects in parallel motion reinforce each other's motion. Thus, it
takes less effort to run together than to run individually. It may
be thought of as the distortion of the space lattices one is moving
through, that makes it easier to effect the same distortion nearby.
- Objects in opposite motion towards each other will spiral, as
already described. Objects in opposite motion from each other have
no measurable side-effect.
- Conversely, objects in rotational or spiral motion will experience
convergence. For example, there is no equivalent of planetary orbits
because circular motion implies radial collapse: the planet would by
law crash into what it's orbiting. If you run in a circle, you will
be tugged towards the center of the circle (although only slightly,
at that scale). Swinging an object in a circle takes a lot of
effort, since it will tend to fall inwards.
Another way to think about this is that curved motion is reinforced
in the direction of curvature.
- Gravity is not radial. In fact, there is no gravity as such;
but there *are* fields of convergent force that keep you on the
surface of a landmass. It is hard to say whether it is the presence
of these fields that caused the landmass to form where it did in the
first place, or that the process of formation of the landmass
induced these convergent fields of force. Landmasses have been found
where there is no associated convergent force field, which therefore
makes them uninhabitable.
Vision
------
I might as well note that in the Ferochromon, there is no "light", or
at least, none equivalent to the Terran universe. There is no shadow,
but objects can obscure each other. Every object has inherent color
and brightness. Vision is absolute; it takes zero time for visual
information to be conveyed from object to eye. However, brightness
does decrease over distance. This may be variously explained as an
inherent property of sight, or an effect of visual information having
to cross more lattices to reach the eye.
I don't know if this is relevant, but thought I'd throw it in anyway.
:-)
So here it is, a crude overview of the Ferochromon. If you actually
have a way to reconcile such bizarre stuff as the "approaching objects
will spiral" bit with linear motion, and actually describe it
mathematically, I want to hear about it. :-) Also, keep in mind that
the Realms are under indirect, inductive influence by their
corresponding Ethers; this may or may not help in coming up with a way
to mathematically describe the Ferochromon.
P.S. As you probably can tell, I wrote this up from memory, as I don't
yet have fully coherent notes that cover all these aspects of the
Ferochromon.
T
--
Blunt statements really don't have a point.
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:20:48 +0200
From: Jörg Rhiemeier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [HUMOR] How many Lojbanist...
Hallo!
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:13:09 -0700,
Gregory Gadow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't know which makes me the bigger geek: that I understood the joke
> enough to find it funny, or that I found it in the first place.
>
> Q: How many Lojbanists does it take to change a broken light bulb?
>
> A: Two. One to decide what to change it in to, and one to figure out what
> kind of bulb emits broken light.
ROTFL! That's a good one.
Greetings,
Jörg.
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:35:10 -0400
From: # 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: French reform (Re: C.Thalmann, & #1)
Jean-François Colson wrote:
>On Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:15 PM, J. 'Mach' Wust wrote:
>
>>The weak schwa vowel is not transcribed because its occurence is
>>predictable.
>
>Not always. For example pneu is pronounced /pn2/, but many people
>erroneously add a schwa: /[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>
>>If required (in poetry), it may be transcribed as if it were /9/.
>
>It's true that /9/ and /@/ tend to merge in present French, but there are
>still dialects where they are different phonemes. I have the feeling that
>merging /2/ and /9/ would be less problematic, but that's perhaps because
>they are often written with the same digraph: |eu|.
For me, it is more plausible to write /2/ and /9/ with the same phoneme
considering they are phonemicly the same
But in my dialect, /9/ and /@/ are never merged, mixed, changes, confused or
something else.
The first times I've heard it, I've took a long time to understand what was
the link between "femme" and "meuf" in Verlan before tinking that some may
pronounce "femme" as /fam9/ instead of /fam/ or at least /fam@/. In fact
Verlan isn't used around here and hearing it is only possible in french
movies: lot of people has never been awared of it.
To get back to the subject, I don't think I've ever heard "pneu" pronounced
/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/, or maybe in some jokes by some humorist that was imitating
an
accent..
But I also think that /@/ needs it's own phoneme because if there are really
two following consonants like /bR/ or /dw/, how do one know if there's a
schwa or not? or if there are 3 consonants and that there's a schwa between
two of them, how might one know between which? I can't think of an example
where putting a schwa or not might change the meaning but there are probably
some.
- Max
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:46:53 -0400
From: # 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [HUMOR] How many Lojbanist...
Gregory Gadow wrote:
>I don't know which makes me the bigger geek: that I understood the joke
>enough to find it funny, or that I found it in the first place.
>
>Q: How many Lojbanists does it take to change a broken light bulb?
>
>A: Two. One to decide what to change it in to, and one to figure out what
>kind of bulb emits broken light.
>
>
>Gregg
I understand but is there a reason in it for being lojbanists? I'd have
understood if it had been "How many guys..."
Is it that in a lojban sentence, "broken light bulb" would be linked from
the beggining in ((broken light) bulb) instead of beggining from the end in
(broken (light bulb))?
But I don't know what's the point of a lojbanist for the word change
I've just translated it in French for my brother without using "lojbanist"
and it works!
Sorry for asking: I know that a question asked after a joke ruin it.. :-|
- Max
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:29:47 -0500
From: JS Bangs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Fwd: Nasal Fricatives, Yes or No
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Apr 12, 2005 11:09 PM
Subject: Nasal Fricatives, Yes or No
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Some peeps were curious about nasal frics, some say no, but I can
pronounce them..
I gave them /snin/-> /s~i~/ as an example. I said, hey, if the French
vowels can do it, why not consonants? any ideas on if an natlangs
played with this...
--
JS Bangs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://jaspax.com
"I could buy you a drink
I could tell you all about it
I could tell you why I doubted
And why I still believe."
- Pedro the Lion
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:57:02 -0400
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Nasal Fricatives, Yes or No
Jesse Bangs/Kevin Urbanczyk wrote:
> Some peeps were curious about nasal frics, some say no, but I can
> pronounce them..
>
> I gave them /snin/-> /s~i~/ as an example. I said, hey, if the French
> vowels can do it, why not consonants? any ideas on if an natlangs
> played with this...
>
Sure, why not? Though IMO it's doubtful if they'd ever be really
_contrastive_; more likely nasalized as a concomitant of other nasals in the
environment, and failure to close off the velum in timely fashion.
Possible "min.pair".: Portuguese sim 'yes' [si~] maybe [s~i~] vs. si 'if'
[si]
Hypothetical: maGa [ma~G~a~] vs. baGa [baGa]. I think there's a way in IPA
to indicate "nasalization spread over all/part of a word". I've read some
very technical articles on the phenomenon in Indonesian and some of its
relatives.
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:31:34 +0100
From: Joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [HUMOR] How many Lojbanist...
# 1 wrote:
> Gregory Gadow wrote:
>
>> I don't know which makes me the bigger geek: that I understood the joke
>> enough to find it funny, or that I found it in the first place.
>>
>> Q: How many Lojbanists does it take to change a broken light bulb?
>>
>> A: Two. One to decide what to change it in to, and one to figure out
>> what
>> kind of bulb emits broken light.
>>
>>
>> Gregg
>
>
> I understand but is there a reason in it for being lojbanists? I'd have
> understood if it had been "How many guys..."
>
> Is it that in a lojban sentence, "broken light bulb" would be linked from
> the beggining in ((broken light) bulb) instead of beggining from the
> end in
> (broken (light bulb))?
>
> But I don't know what's the point of a lojbanist for the word change
A lojbanist because it's pointing out that the point of a logical
language is to eliminate any ambiguity whatsoever in meaning.
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:29:32 -0600
From: Muke Tever <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [CHAT] Mispronouncing Conlang Names
David J. Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I recently posted Barry Garcia's translation of the Sheli poem
> into Ayhan on my site, and I noticed, after pasting his link in,
> that I'd been incorrectly spelling the language as "Ahyan".
> Why? Because that's actually how I'd been *pronouncing* it
> (in my head) all this time. And, indeed, I actually mispronounce
> a lot of conlang names, I've noticed.
The ones that stick most in my mind, unable to be removed, are
probably /m{Ngl/ [Maggel], ABCD-an [Ebisedian], and Celine
Dion [Silindion].
*Muke!
--
website: http://frath.net/
LiveJournal: http://kohath.livejournal.com/
deviantArt: http://kohath.deviantart.com/
FrathWiki, a conlang and conculture wiki:
http://wiki.frath.net/
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:29:19 -0600
From: Muke Tever <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [HUMOR] How many Lojbanist...
# 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gregory Gadow wrote:
>
>> I don't know which makes me the bigger geek: that I understood the joke
>> enough to find it funny, or that I found it in the first place.
>>
>> Q: How many Lojbanists does it take to change a broken light bulb?
>>
>> A: Two. One to decide what to change it in to, and one to figure out what
>> kind of bulb emits broken light.
>>
> I understand but is there a reason in it for being lojbanists? I'd have
> understood if it had been "How many guys..."
I don't know how it happens in Francophone countries but here "How many [X kind
of people] does it take to change a lightbulb" is a common formula for jokes
poking fun at [X kind of people].
Without having [X kind of people] involved, some of the jokes may work, though
you lose the reason for making the joke in the first place.
*Muke!
--
website: http://frath.net/
LiveJournal: http://kohath.livejournal.com/
deviantArt: http://kohath.deviantart.com/
FrathWiki, a conlang and conculture wiki:
http://wiki.frath.net/
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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:04:56 +0200
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [CHAT] Mispronouncing Conlang Names
Hi!
Muke Tever <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>...
> The ones that stick most in my mind, unable to be removed, are
> probably /m{Ngl/ [Maggel],
Haha! Indeed, it makes perfect sense, so I see how it can't be
removed.
> ABCD-an [Ebisedian],
HAHAHA! From now on, I probably will not get rid of this either...
> and Celine Dion [Silindion].
HAHA! :-)
Quiet a funny associative brain you have! :-)
**Henrik
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:14:39 -0400
From: "Mark J. Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [CHAT] Mispronouncing Conlang Names
Despite corresponding with Sally and perusing her website and examining the
script with an eye toward font creation etc etc, "Teonaht" continues to be
something like ['t_hej.@,nat] in my head. Hopefully, if I ever have the
opportunity to speak about it out loud, I'll fix it "in post", as it were,
before it makes it all the way out of my mouth. :)
On 4/13/05, Muke Tever <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> David J. Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I recently posted Barry Garcia's translation of the Sheli poem
> > into Ayhan on my site, and I noticed, after pasting his link in,
> > that I'd been incorrectly spelling the language as "Ahyan".
> > Why? Because that's actually how I'd been *pronouncing* it
> > (in my head) all this time. And, indeed, I actually mispronounce
> > a lot of conlang names, I've noticed.
>
> The ones that stick most in my mind, unable to be removed, are
> probably /m{Ngl/ [Maggel], ABCD-an [Ebisedian], and Celine
> Dion [Silindion].
>
> *Muke!
> --
> website: http://frath.net/
> LiveJournal: http://kohath.livejournal.com/
> deviantArt: http://kohath.deviantart.com/
>
> FrathWiki, a conlang and conculture wiki:
> http://wiki.frath.net/
>
--
Mark J. Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[This message contained attachments]
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