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There are 10 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: Possible base-20 numeric system From: Danny Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2. Tolkien's rootwords / Progress of Ambrian From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 3. Re: Possible base-20 numeric system From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 4. Re: Anybody on AIM From: "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 5. Re: Information on future English language development? From: "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 6. Re: Tolkien's rootwords / Progress of Ambrian From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 7. Re: Tolkien's rootwords / Progress of Ambrian From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 8. Re: Possible base-20 numeric system From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 9. Re: Question about word-initial velar nasal From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10. Re: Possible base-20 numeric system From: Rene Uittenbogaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 06:42:28 -0500 From: Danny Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Possible base-20 numeric system From: "Simon Richard Clarkstone" > No, wrong, you have a bizarre dual-base system. Each of the quoted > should be 20 more than its predecessor. In the next "place", each would > be 20*20=400 more than its predecessor. > Also, you must (well, should) only have one name for each integer, but > you have: > ketīs-tis = koltīs (assuming hyphens add the two numbers) Dual-base systems are bizarre? Systems using 20x5 are not that uncommon; Welsh, Danish, French (for 60 and 80) and Georgian are just a few that do such. And what about Sumerian and Akkadian? Base 60 is inevitably dual-base, since you can't square an integer and get 60. I want something that's insanely mixed-base, using 10, 12, 20 or 60 depending on whatever. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:17:08 +0200 From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Tolkien's rootwords / Progress of Ambrian +ALQ-=======================================+AGA- +AHw- THIS MAIL IS IN UTF-7 BECAUSE OF SUCH +AHw- +AHw- FANCY LETTERS LIKE N-ACUTE +AHw- +AGA-=======================================+ALQ- Hello! I'm back from the holidays since yesterday. One evening, I thought of vocabulary for Ayeri and root words. Why did ol' Tolkien AFAIK give C-C-C roots for his Elvish langs, although none of them was (also AFAIK) Semitic style? And, as for roots, I came up with some words for my naming language project +AF8-Ambrian+AF8- and gave it some roots from scratch. It's awweesome what can be done with roots. You can put pretty much work into a language that way, and are able to create new words basing on a root's meaning quite easily. ==========[ BEGIN: AMBRIAN WORDS ]=========== (after Jeffrey Henning's essay on naming languages) chief tindo fortunate arnin industrious ne+APA-in mighty kap+APA-ar powerful pha+AUQ-in [faNgin] ready entae [EntAi)] strong-willed tibin (cf. +ACo-tin, strong(-willed)) wealthy vea+APA-i [vE+AEA-)Di] (English bias?!) beloved +AP4-ti compassionate kegrin passion kirin noble sani prayerful +AP4-o+APA-in (cf. tindo) blessed inhae+APA- [INgAi)T] desired tji (cf. +ACo-tin) small bha+AUQ- [vaN] victorious niebhi (cf. tindo) brave tibin (cf. +ACo-tin) manly modi+APA- ==========[ END: AMBRIAN WORDS ]=========== Sofa, Carsten -- Eri silvev+AOE-ng aibannama padangin. Nivaie evaenain eri ming silvoiev+AOE-ng caparei. - Antoine de Saint-Exup+AOk-ry, Le Petit Prince -> http://www.beckerscarsten.de/?conlang=ayeri ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:20:47 +0200 From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Possible base-20 numeric system Quoting Danny Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > From: "Simon Richard Clarkstone" > > > No, wrong, you have a bizarre dual-base system. Each of the quoted > > should be 20 more than its predecessor. In the next "place", each would > > be 20*20=400 more than its predecessor. > > Also, you must (well, should) only have one name for each integer, but > > you have: > > ketīs-tis = koltīs (assuming hyphens add the two numbers) > > Dual-base systems are bizarre? Systems using 20x5 are not that uncommon; > Welsh, Danish, French (for 60 and 80) and Georgian are just a few that do > such. > > And what about Sumerian and Akkadian? Base 60 is inevitably dual-base, since > you can't square an integer and get 60. Eh? How is it any more inevitably dual-base than base 10? It's not like there's an integer that squares to ten either. Andreas ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 07:23:13 -0500 From: "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Anybody on AIM Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is anybody on this list also on AIM -- > and in the CET time zone would be nice! I am, most boringly, none but <trwier> on AIM. ========================================================================== Thomas Wier "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally, Dept. of Linguistics because our secret police don't get it right University of Chicago half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of 1010 E. 59th Street Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter. Chicago, IL 60637 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 07:23:00 -0500 From: "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Information on future English language development? On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:57:11 +0100, Simon Richard Clarkstone wrote: > I only agree with you partly there. Due to increased global > communications, English could also be said to be changing less, as a > better connected language community makes change of language more > difficult: a new word will be very unlikely to spread fast enough to > last long. Hard to say. It's clear that there are entirely localized sound-changes going on in some English-speaking countries which appear not even to be spreading beyond the home region in which they arose, e.g. the Northern Cities Shift in the US, or the "bruvver"-dialects in Great Britain. Such kinds of changes could ultimately lead to the breakup of colloquial speech, while the acrolect is perpetuated by the education system, leading to Swiss-style diglossia. (Other changes certainly are spreading. I seem to be hearing more and more Northerners in Chicago use "y'all" for the second person plural, and some young people from New York say they also use it. It is conceivable at such a rate of spread that in 100-150 years or so, most of North America will have adopted it, thence perhaps to other countries.) ========================================================================== Thomas Wier "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally, Dept. of Linguistics because our secret police don't get it right University of Chicago half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of 1010 E. 59th Street Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter. Chicago, IL 60637 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:36:57 +0200 From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Tolkien's rootwords / Progress of Ambrian Quoting Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > +ALQ-=======================================+AGA- > +AHw- THIS MAIL IS IN UTF-7 BECAUSE OF SUCH +AHw- > +AHw- FANCY LETTERS LIKE N-ACUTE +AHw- > +AGA-=======================================+ALQ- > > > Hello! > > I'm back from the holidays since yesterday. > One evening, I thought of vocabulary for Ayeri and root > words. Why did ol' Tolkien AFAIK give C-C-C roots for his > Elvish langs, although none of them was (also AFAIK) > Semitic style? I'm not sure what you're refering to. Most attested Quendian roots are of the shape CVC; other's include CCVC, VC and CV, but the only consonant-only one seems to be the pronominal root *S. There are instances when the stem vowel (_sundķma_) displaced from it's normal position, as in _alcar__<*_ak'lar-_, from *KALA, but this is no more "Semitic" than is vowels jumping around in IE ablaut patterns. JRRT's Dwarvish _is_ "Semitic", however. Andreas ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:41:39 -0400 From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Tolkien's rootwords / Progress of Ambrian On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:36:57 +0200, Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I'm not sure what you're refering to. Most attested Quendian roots are of the >shape CVC; other's include CCVC, VC and CV, but the only consonant-only one >seems to be the pronominal root *S. Maybe it's just my bad memory then. I thought that I've seen somewhere roots given as, say, QBV or so. Maybe it was Dwarfish, so then forget about what I wrote. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:19:40 +0200 From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Possible base-20 numeric system Hi! Trebor Jung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Basic roots: > > nol: zero >... > tistīstīs: two hundred > ... Good! :-) > How do you think I should combine to form higher numbers? Well, if you want a system similar to decimal in English, decide how many digits would make a 'paket', say n, and then have words for 20^1 -> 20 20^2 -> 400 ... 20^n -> if n = 3 (as in English), that'd be it, namely: 8000 Then 20^n would correspond to the 'packet' number 1000 in English. And then have larger numbers 20^(n*k) for k=1,... (in English: a thousand, a million, a billion, etc.) Say, n=3, then: 20^(3*1) = 8000 (corresponds to 1000 in English decimal system) 20^(3*2) = 64000000 (corresponds to 1000000 in English decimal system) ... Chinese, Japanese, Korean (and others) have decimal with n=4. There are also natlangs that have n=2. As an option, don't be so regular, e.g. compare the Hindi system of numbers >= 100, it's quite interesting as the packets are sometimes n=2 and sometimes n=3. My conlangs Tyl Sjok and Qeng|ai have n=1, but it's a bit more complicated than that, since the base may be 2, 8, 10, and 16 (and in principle, anything between 2 and 16), and the exponents may be in exponential form as well. **Henrik ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:34:09 +0200 From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Question about word-initial velar nasal Hi! Danny Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >... > I also want to say Inuktitut too, but I can't remember! I studied this > language a wee bit not too long ago.... >... No, at least not Kalaallisut (West-Greenlandic). Initially, it only allows vowels (a, i, u (and allophones e and o)) and q, k, p, t, m, n, s. (And l, r, v in very, very few (foreign) words, my dictionary lists 7 words with l, 2 with r and 8 with v). **Henrik ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 10 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:08:24 +0200 From: Rene Uittenbogaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Possible base-20 numeric system Trebor Jung wrote: > üstistīs: one hundred and one 1+10*10, right? > üsrastīs: one hundred and eleven 1+11*10 Nice :) I like languages with numbers in "little-endian" notation (least significant part first). "Five and forty". Simon Richard Clarkstone wrote: > for complicated numbers: > köttīstīstīs-naetīstīs-đahtīs-nel > = _19_9_16_4 = _19_0_0_0 + _9_0_0 + _16_0 + _4 > = 19*20*20*20 > + 9*20*20 > + 16*20 > + 4 > = 155924 I'd use nel-đahtīs-naetīstīs-köttīstīstīs. As a matter of fact, I think that'll be the way Eyahwánsi will handle numbers. René ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------