------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease?
Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/RzSHvD/UOnJAA/79vVAA/GSaulB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
There are 8 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Conlanging in the news
From: Thomas Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. Re: Conlanging in the news
From: "B. Garcia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: 1. YAESR
From: Joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. Re: Conlanging in the news
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. Re: Conlanging in the news
From: "David J. Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6. Re: (in)perfective imperatives (was: past tense imperative)
From: Isaac Penzev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7. Re: Resources on the web?
From: Jeffrey Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8. Re: Conlanging in the news
From: JS Bangs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 13:14:11 -0500
From: Thomas Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Conlanging in the news
Hi all. Conlanging in the news again... don't think
I've ever seen anything by Wolf Wikeley before.
<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/arts/19lang.html>
==========================================================================
Thomas Wier "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally,
Dept. of Linguistics because our secret police don't get it right
University of Chicago half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of
1010 E. 59th Street Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter.
Chicago, IL 60637
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:45:21 -0700
From: "B. Garcia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlanging in the news
On 4/19/05, Thomas Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: Constructed Languages List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Poster: Thomas Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Conlanging in the news
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hi all. Conlanging in the news again... don't think
> I've ever seen anything by Wolf Wikeley before.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/arts/19lang.html
I found a rather interesting comment about it on bioware's forum for this
game:
"It's a lot like the "alien" languages in KOTOR, Klingon in Star Trek, and
Elvish in LOTR: awful. Your voice actors would be more animated if you just
let clay ooze out of their mouths."
Boy, there's no pleasing some people!
"This seems like one of those bizarre scenarios which result when PC
intentions backfire. It's like you wanted to appease Asian-American interest
groups by avoiding any "racist" voiceovers (which is not such a bad thing
considering all the yellowface voice acting in games), but what resulted is
an Asian-themed world with a complete absence of Asians. It's like you can
expropriate the culture, but want nothing to do with the people."
So, I guess I want nothing to do with South East Asians since my Saalangal
don't speak Bahasa Indonesia or Tagalog, LOL.
[This message contained attachments]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:46:10 +0100
From: Joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 1. YAESR
Ray Brown wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2005, at 11:00 , Joe wrote:
> [snip]
>
>> Well, Welsh and English have a pleasantly similar phonology, with the
>> odd exception (Welsh doesn't have [tS] or [dZ], or [z], English doesn't
>> have [K] or [r_h], or [x] natively). I spelt [tS] and [dZ] as well as I
>> could, within the Welsh orthography (I didn't make it up, of course.
>> See Welsh 'jwg'(jug) and 'garej'(garage),
>
>
> Yep - nowadays, all but the purists recognized both the letter |j| and
> the
> sound [dZ] as Welsh. The position of [S] is more problematic; in English
> borrowings it is simply |s| if final, e.g. _ffres_ and, of course [tS] is
> even more problematic :)
Yes. 'sh' shouldn't be a problem, but it's not exactly purist. But I
think it's a rather ugly diagraph, and so I stuck with 'si' as far as
possible. Which admittedly only applies in South Wales, I believe, but
you know.
>
> [snip]
>
>> And <z> is a letter so alien to Welsh
>
>
> Note quite - in south Walian one does occasionally come across _zw^_ (z +
> circumflexed-w) "zoo" for the more standard _sw^_ :)
>
Aye? I didnae know that.
> [snip]
>
>> to <u>, and turning into [I] to match the English phonology.
>
>
> Which is the way short |i| is pronounced in Welsh, as well as
> English :)
>
So it is - though I'm thinking to have [i:] represented by î would make
the whole thing look rather busy.
>> Apart from
>> that, I'd say that it's pretty faithful.
>
>
> Um - the diphthongs are a bit out also. For example, being used to actual
> Welsh _beic_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] = 'bike' I found it a bit odd for English
> _bake_
> (which in 'Welsh English' is pronounced [be:k]) - your transcription made
> me read the thing with a London accent :)
Heh. Yes, I wasn't too sure about that. I suppose if you're going to
base an English spelling reform on Welsh, it should be based on the
Welsh English dialect. I didn't do this, because I'm not dreadfully
experienced in it, whereas I know my own accent inside out.
Anyway. I had fun with it, and I'm glad everyone else enjoyed it.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:20:56 -0400
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlanging in the news
Tom Wier wrote:
> Hi all. Conlanging in the news again... don't think
> I've ever seen anything by Wolf Wikeley before.
>
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/arts/19lang.html>
>
Interesting...I wonder how he changed it from "subservient-" to
"elite-sounding".
Good heavens, why would anyone contact a "nearby university" when WE are
just a click away, and, Lord knows, eager to help out, with already finished
products available for a reasonable fee, plus residuals or maybe a
percentage of sales?......:-)))))))))))))
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:38:04 -0700
From: "David J. Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlanging in the news
Roger wrote:
<<
Good heavens, why would anyone contact a "nearby university" when WE are
just a click away, and, Lord knows, eager to help out, with already
finished
products available for a reasonable fee, plus residuals or maybe a
percentage of sales?......:-)))))))))))))
>>
Yeah, I know. Maybe we should form a Conlanging Guild, a la
the Screen Actors Guild, or something. Geez. Look at this quote:
"Not many people have funny anecdotes about Klingon," Mr. Bishop said.
Grrr...
This is really upsetting to me. I need money much more than
a Ph.D. candidate does (or will). Obviously our own community
has attracted no attention. Of course, if you're not even willing
to do a google search... Bah. Whatever. Work to do.
-David
*******************************************************************
"sunly eleSkarez ygralleryf ydZZixelje je ox2mejze."
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
-Jim Morrison
http://dedalvs.free.fr/
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:57:51 +0300
From: Isaac Penzev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: (in)perfective imperatives (was: past tense imperative)
J. 'Mach' Wust wrote:
> I have been said that even though the perfective imperative is more
polite,
> the imperfective imperative will be used when it is a severe commitment,
> e.g. in _marry me!_ or in _give me a loan of a million dollars!_ Is this
> true (it was in Serbian, not in Russian, but for what I know the
> perfective-imperfective distinction is common to all Slavia)?
I'm not a specialist in Russian, I'm merely a native speaker. So the
distribution of perfective and imperfective imperative is a bit vague for
me. Maybe I need to consult a good RuSL grammar book.
Anyway, "marry me" is indeed in IA: _vykhodi za menya zamuzh_ (the verb is
_vykhodi_ from INF _vykhodit'_). But "give me a loan of etc." would surely
demand PA: _zaymi mne million_ (from _zanyat'_).
PA:IA opposition is indeed common to all Slavic langs, but they treat it
sometimes very differently (I looked through Czech grammar book one day).
And don't forget that e.g. Bulgarian has also tense oppositions combined
with it, having preserved the old Slavic aorist and imperfect (NB: modern
Slavic "past" is diachronically a perfect).
-- Yitz
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:47:11 -0400
From: Jeffrey Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Resources on the web?
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:17:59 -0400, Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Whatever became of "conlanglinks.tk" (for which I now get a 403
> "Forbidden" message)-- but it was simply a link to another page,
> which I had bookmarked but now can't find??
http://www.myconlanglinks.tk works for me, if that's the same one.
Jeff
(My LISTSERV password, however, *didn't* work -- I had to reset it.)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:01:51 -0500
From: JS Bangs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlanging in the news
On 4/19/05, David J. Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Roger wrote:
> <<
> Good heavens, why would anyone contact a "nearby university" when WE are
> just a click away, and, Lord knows, eager to help out, with already
> finished
> products available for a reasonable fee, plus residuals or maybe a
> percentage of sales?......:-)))))))))))))
> >>
> [snip]
> This is really upsetting to me. I need money much more than
> a Ph.D. candidate does (or will). Obviously our own community
> has attracted no attention. Of course, if you're not even willing
> to do a google search... Bah. Whatever. Work to do.
The problem is that the best google search would be on the word
"conlang", which you've never heard of unless you are already a
conlanger.
--
JS Bangs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://jaspax.com
"I could buy you a drink
I could tell you all about it
I could tell you why I doubted
And why I still believe."
- Pedro the Lion
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
