[Cooker] Re: Creation of a community ( was : the end is inevitable )

2003-02-07 Thread John Goerzen
Before I reply to your message, Michael, let me briefly let people know why I'm involved :-) I've been a Debian developer since 1995 or so, and someone recently posted to our developer's list information about this thread, and I would like to try to offer a bit of insight on what Debian has done

[Cooker] Re: Creation of a community

2003-02-07 Thread John Goerzen
Austin Acton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well preliminary questions are: 1. Is there any hope of MandrakeSoft adopting a plan like this? 2. If so, will they administer it? In other words, do THEY want to reorganize into a more community-based distro, or do they want US to form our own

[Cooker] Re: Creation of a community ( was : the end is inevitable )

2003-02-07 Thread John Goerzen
Gustavo Franco [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: PS: Some friends have always argued that the debian way is the only sustainable way to go. If mdk is going to do it just like debian, why not fold and move the idea's and effort into making debian a better distro instead of duplicating the effort?

[Cooker] Re: How Debians do it

2003-02-07 Thread John Goerzen
Austin Acton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. They have documents clearly outlining their goals and standards. http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines http://www.debian.org/social_contract You will also be interested in the Constitution, which discusses Debian's internal structure:

[Cooker] Re: Creation of a community ( was : the end is inevitable )

2003-02-07 Thread John Goerzen
Warly [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think Mandrake goal has always be very different from debian one. Mandrake is a distribution focused on user, aimed to ease linux access to everybody, and which is very reactive and on the cutting edge. Debian is more developper oriented and with a

[Cooker] Re: Creation of a community

2003-02-07 Thread John Goerzen
Austin Acton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The point is not to become debian. The point is to learn from their organizational success. And failures, too. Debian has some of each. How many developers do you see the Mandrake community having?

[Cooker] Re: Creation of a community

2003-02-07 Thread John Goerzen
Austin Acton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The community should not be interpreted as a port or a fork or a new project. IMHO, it should be just that, a community: with both corporate and volunteer portions working as one. OK, I may have misinterpreted the reason it's starting. I thought the

[Cooker] Re: Creation of a community ( was : the end is inevitable )

2003-02-07 Thread John Goerzen
Austin Acton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the lines of the Debian Desktop project. Or, joining the existing Desktop and installer projects. Are you serious? No, just opening Pandora's Box a little :-) Really, I'm just putting forth options, which may be really bad or may be really good. As I

[Cooker] Re: Creation of a community ( was : the end is inevitable )

2003-02-07 Thread John Goerzen
Michael Scherer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. A developer is still maintaining a package, but wants to stop 2. A developer has stopped maintaining the package and wants to let others know about it. Well, orphaned package need to be adopted before any work is done on it, that's right ?

[Cooker] Re: Creation of a community

2003-02-07 Thread John Goerzen
Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And failures, too. Debian has some of each. How many developers do you see the Mandrake community having? If I had to guess, I'd say somewhere between 40 and 100, somewhere around 20-50% of whom are MandrakeSoft employees. Don't quote me on that,

[Cooker] Re: How Debians do it

2003-02-07 Thread John Goerzen
Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri Feb 07 13:10 -0600, John Goerzen wrote: My position is that all operating systems suck. (Hard to argue with that.) It's our job to make them suck a little less. I presume you have heard of Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie? Nope, care to explain

[Cooker] Re: Creation of a community ( was : the end is inevitable )

2003-02-08 Thread John Goerzen
Gustavo Franco [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mandrake as a new project inside Debian.But it was refused here, many feels involved.But if you change the original idea, try debian-project ML.The Debian-Mandrake can receive financial support of SPI as described by Goerzen, more and more developers,

[Cooker] Re: Creation of a community ( was : the end is inevitable )

2003-02-08 Thread John Goerzen
Buchan Milne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In one months or two you're doing: apt-get update; apt-get -uy upgrade.I can see :P We have 'urpmi.update -a; urpmi --auto-select --auto' (I have this in cron), and it gives me more than Debain does, unless Debian has XFS+ACL This is an honest

[Cooker] Re: Creation of a community ( was : the end is inevitable )

2003-02-10 Thread John Goerzen
Pixel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Stefan van der Eijk [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: and move the idea's and effort into making debian a better distro instead of duplicating the effort? one main difference with debian, is that mandrake (tries to) takes into account the users's needs (and not only