Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
On Thursday 20 February 2003 05:38 pm, Buchan Milne wrote: > On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, et wrote: > > well then I believe it is also the same the first time you start > > X-CD-Roast from the menu, (Kmenu. Application, Archiving, CD Burning, > > x-cd-roast) and it gives no clue as to any other way to start xcdroast > > other than an error box with an OK button that says "No root > > configuration or not readable! The superuser must start and configure > > X-CD-Roast first, before other users can use it. > > Ahhh, thanks for reminding me why I don't use X-CDRoast ;-). Great answer,,, I think I will file that one away and use it later > > I contend the in the past, a newbie could (and would) log out, login as > > root > > Ok, so someone needs to add a menu option for running X-CD-Roast setup via > kdesu (or consolehelper or whatever). and someone else can (spend the rest of their life to) make sure no one ever writes another program that "needs" to be run as root that someone might want to run on a Mandrake OS that has mdkkdm? > > > I am not a customer, I have not paid money for Crossover. Money usually > > > speaks better than words, and if for example there is not Mandrake > > > kernel for win4lin (which I have paid for), you can be sure I will > > > write to NeTraverse. > > > > > > , and since I bought it as part of a > > > AFAIK you only get an evaluation copy of Crossover on the Powerpack, > > > but see below ... > > > > yep that is correct, so the only folks that _sold_ me any software was > > the folks I gave money to for the powerpack. > > But they probably did not sell you Crossover ... they sold you StarOffice, > and happened to bundle an eval (slight difference). Really? what I _thought_ I was buying was the Mandrake PowerPAck. if it came with Star Office, or joe's Office pack, I thought I was buying whatever was packed in the powerpack. I was not considering a purchase from Sun, I could sware it was the MAndrakeStore that charged my credit card. I (personally) do not need or use crossover, but that is just me. I just clicked around on the menus and came up with 2 programs that I think most newbies would start by loging out as user and login as root and run. > > > If it is a Mandrake package, mail the packager listed in the changelog > > > (it would be nice to have commercial RPMS also available in Bugzilla). > > > > > > But I still do not see how this is an mdkkdm bug. > > > > well the change in mdkkdm (not having a text box for user name) is what > > made these other programs have a problem. In relatioon to a a new users > > eyes, they were not broken until mdkkdm fixed them. > > Well, I would prefer better options than X-CD-Roast. k3b seems mostly good > enough, and it has been patched not to do stupid things on first start. > > > > What about msec, which would also prevent you from logging in > > > as root? Maybe you should file a bug there too??. > > > > Msec did do what we are talking about (previously), it just depended on > > the level of security chosen. as I understand it (and please correct me > > if I am mistaken) currently there is no way to type in a user name (root) > > if it is not one of the displayed names (and a screenshot might be a good > > thing for trolls like myself to get a clearer picture) perhaps this to > > (the current complaint as I understand it) is a function of the level of > > msec security chosen? > > Yes, I think in level 4 you will not get a user list. We have > allow_user_list(0) > in our /etc/security/msec/levels.local (IIRC), and so we never see a user > list, just a user/passwd dialog, even with mdkkdm. > > Buchan
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
replies in line On Thursday 20 February 2003 04:35 pm, Buchan Milne wrote. > > Never seen a problem such as this, even with win4iln. well then I believe it is also the same the first time you start X-CD-Roast from the menu, (Kmenu. Application, Archiving, CD Burning, x-cd-roast) and it gives no clue as to any other way to start xcdroast other than an error box with an OK button that says "No root configuration or not readable! The superuser must start and configure X-CD-Roast first, before other users can use it. I contend the in the past, a newbie could (and would) log out, login as root > > > NOT > > However, perhaps, since I am just a troll, and you are a well respected > > developer, it would care more weight if you were to write to the fine > > folks > > > who developed Crossover and tell them. but since YOU suggest telling > > the fine > > > folks that sold me the software > > I am not a customer, I have not paid money for Crossover. Money usually > speaks better than words, and if for example there is not Mandrake > kernel for win4lin (which I have paid for), you can be sure I will write > to NeTraverse. > > , and since I bought it as part of a > > > MandrakeSoft produced set of PowerPack disks, I figured the best way > > to tell > > > the folks I might buy the next PowerPack from before they take someone > > else's > > > advice and sell me something I can not use > > AFAIK you only get an evaluation copy of Crossover on the Powerpack, but > see below ... yep that is correct, so the only folks that _sold_ me any software was the folks I gave money to for the powerpack. > > gee I was sure this was the > > place to tell "whoever sells you this software, and ask them to have > > it run > > > via kdesu or something like that. In fact, that was what I was doing. > > If it is a Mandrake package, mail the packager listed in the changelog > (it would be nice to have commercial RPMS also available in Bugzilla). > > But I still do not see how this is an mdkkdm bug. well the change in mdkkdm (not having a text box for user name) is what made these other programs have a problem. In relatioon to a a new users eyes, they were not broken until mdkkdm fixed them. > What about msec, which would also prevent you from logging in > as root? Maybe you should file a bug there too??. > > Buchan Msec did do what we are talking about (previously), it just depended on the level of security chosen. as I understand it (and please correct me if I am mistaken) currently there is no way to type in a user name (root) if it is not one of the displayed names (and a screenshot might be a good thing for trolls like myself to get a clearer picture) perhaps this to (the current complaint as I understand it) is a function of the level of msec security chosen? et
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
On Thursday 20 February 2003 03:04 pm, Buchan Milne wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > et wrote: > > On Thursday 20 February 2003 11:50 am, Greg Meyer wrote: > > > > maybe if there was some clue as to what the CLI command was, as it is > > it sets > > > a menu item in the Kmenu and clicking on it tells you to login as root > > and > > > restart to configure the program. I think there is more than one > > program like > > > this. > > Well, file a bug report with whoever sells you this software, and ask > them to have it run via kdesu or something like that. > > They should not expect the average user to run as root all the time, > just as Windows software companies have to learn that it is not > acceptable to require write permissions all over the filesystem to use > an application ... > > Buchan Gee, thanks for the way to correct what has not been a problem until MDKKDM created it. NOT However, perhaps, since I am just a troll, and you are a well respected developer, it would care more weight if you were to write to the fine folks who develope Crossover and tell them. but since YOU suggest telling the fine folks that sold me the software, and since I bought it as part of a MandrakeSoft produced set of PowerPack disks, I figured the best way to tell the folks I might buy the next PowerPack from befor they take someone elses advice and sell me something I cna not use gee I was sure this was the place to tell "whoever sells you this software, and ask them to have it run via kdesu or something like that. In fact, that was what I was doing.
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
On Thursday 20 February 2003 11:03 am, avalon wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "et" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 10:47 AM > Subject: Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed > with extreme displeasure > > > On Thursday 20 February 2003 09:17 am, Buchan Milne wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > Greg Meyer wrote: > > > > On Thursday 20 February 2003 08:21 am, Buchan Milne wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The workaround will be to switch to kdm, as is what I will probably > > > > do > > > > > > if this > > > > > > > does not change, which is not a huge issue. Just be prepared. > > > > > > OK, prepare for a whole bunch of replies to a.o.l.m then (only over > > > weekends) like this: > > > > > > 1)NEVER LOG IN AS ROOT. Use MCC or su > > > 2)If you plan on spending more time than necessary fixing your own > > > mistakes (do not expect help from me in that case): > > > # urpmi kdebase-kdm; urpme mdkkdm; echo kde > /etc/sysconfig/desktop > > > > > > Buchan > > > > > > - -- > > > > > > |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| > > > > > > Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager > > > Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 > > > Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za > > > GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc > > > 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) > > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > > > > > iD4DBQE+VOOMrJK6UGDSBKcRAgJsAJiRzEfxYKA2vKRrnGQV2fi431GKAKCP5uba > > > XXsD15WAvxizXFNJhS7AtQ== > > > =Wv52 > > > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > > Crossover plugins require you to be root in a GUI to install and setup, > > and so > > > does at least one CDrom Burning program > > Actually, CrossOver plugin and Office can install as user, but will only be > setup for the user that installs it. That's how I have it install. > Unfortunately, something happened during the last week or two that broke > Crossover plugin. I'm still trying to figure out what's happening, but > basically, no plugins work right now. > > Scott not in the "stantard" default install from a powerpack in 9.0
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
On Thursday 20 February 2003 11:50 am, Greg Meyer wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Thursday 20 February 2003 10:47 am, et wrote: > > Crossover plugins require you to be root in a GUI to install and setup, > > and so does at least one CDrom Burning program > > In that case, you could start the installer in a root console from within > the user's DE. Does this not work? > - -- > Greg > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQE+VQdVGu5uuMFlL5MRAjv3AJ0ZQBBCQhLBL3FwJpkeJWDiqVNSGQCfYw/o > flMi7p0khZSikaTax3sBgLg= > =KDhI > -END PGP SIGNATURE- maybe if there was some clue as to what the CLI command was, as it is it sets a menu item in the Kmenu and clicking on it tells you to login as root and restart to configure the program. I think there is more than one program like this.
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yes, I know that. But that wasn't the default setting, as far as I remember, you had to fish through the kcontrol settings to select this behavior. Jan On Thursday 20 February 2003 17:40, Greg Meyer wrote: > kdm can be set to focus a user and the password field so you don't even > have to hit enter prior to typing the password. This may work for mdkkdm > also, I do not know, I have not tried it. > -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+VQpkn11XseNj94gRAjdjAJ92QFLk3GceK5NahtQDsrBj7PIswwCgy+VZ Sp2bXi6+G2Mt5/3ETm7aSyk= =bZ+6 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 20 February 2003 10:47 am, et wrote: > > Crossover plugins require you to be root in a GUI to install and setup, and > so does at least one CDrom Burning program In that case, you could start the installer in a root console from within the user's DE. Does this not work? - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+VQdVGu5uuMFlL5MRAjv3AJ0ZQBBCQhLBL3FwJpkeJWDiqVNSGQCfYw/o flMi7p0khZSikaTax3sBgLg= =KDhI -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 20 February 2003 10:05 am, Jan Ciger wrote: > I personally do not have a problem with the new login manager, because as > most of the people, just hit enter on the preselected icon and type in the > password (a single user machine). Actually it is better than the standard > KDM in this regard, because on the old one you had to click and then type, > so I usually typed both username and password and didn't bother clicking on > the icons. They were just an eyecandy for me in the end or I disabled them > altogether. kdm can be set to focus a user and the password field so you don't even have to hit enter prior to typing the password. This may work for mdkkdm also, I do not know, I have not tried it. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+VQUTGu5uuMFlL5MRAmByAJ4i/Y56qK+2FrbqwAurVkw51avRaQCgkc3z waQd7bZAj0M1KSwZwOupw5Q= =zOou -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
- Original Message - From: "et" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure > On Thursday 20 February 2003 09:17 am, Buchan Milne wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Greg Meyer wrote: > > > On Thursday 20 February 2003 08:21 am, Buchan Milne wrote: > > > > > > > > > The workaround will be to switch to kdm, as is what I will probably do > > > > if this > > > > > does not change, which is not a huge issue. Just be prepared. > > > > OK, prepare for a whole bunch of replies to a.o.l.m then (only over > > weekends) like this: > > > > 1)NEVER LOG IN AS ROOT. Use MCC or su > > 2)If you plan on spending more time than necessary fixing your own > > mistakes (do not expect help from me in that case): > > # urpmi kdebase-kdm; urpme mdkkdm; echo kde > /etc/sysconfig/desktop > > > > Buchan > > > > - -- > > > > |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| > > > > Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager > > Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 > > Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za > > GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc > > 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > > > iD4DBQE+VOOMrJK6UGDSBKcRAgJsAJiRzEfxYKA2vKRrnGQV2fi431GKAKCP5uba > > XXsD15WAvxizXFNJhS7AtQ== > > =Wv52 > > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > Crossover plugins require you to be root in a GUI to install and setup, and so > does at least one CDrom Burning program Actually, CrossOver plugin and Office can install as user, but will only be setup for the user that installs it. That's how I have it install. Unfortunately, something happened during the last week or two that broke Crossover plugin. I'm still trying to figure out what's happening, but basically, no plugins work right now. Scott
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
On Thursday 20 February 2003 09:17 am, Buchan Milne wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Greg Meyer wrote: > > On Thursday 20 February 2003 08:21 am, Buchan Milne wrote: > > > > > > The workaround will be to switch to kdm, as is what I will probably do > > if this > > > does not change, which is not a huge issue. Just be prepared. > > OK, prepare for a whole bunch of replies to a.o.l.m then (only over > weekends) like this: > > 1)NEVER LOG IN AS ROOT. Use MCC or su > 2)If you plan on spending more time than necessary fixing your own > mistakes (do not expect help from me in that case): > # urpmi kdebase-kdm; urpme mdkkdm; echo kde > /etc/sysconfig/desktop > > Buchan > > - -- > > |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| > > Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager > Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 > Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za > GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc > 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD4DBQE+VOOMrJK6UGDSBKcRAgJsAJiRzEfxYKA2vKRrnGQV2fi431GKAKCP5uba > XXsD15WAvxizXFNJhS7AtQ== > =Wv52 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- Crossover plugins require you to be root in a GUI to install and setup, and so does at least one CDrom Burning program
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I couldn't resist not to quote Mosfet here. Read the article http://www.mosfet.org/configurability.html about why configurability is good and that there is no "right design". Maybe it helps. I personally do not have a problem with the new login manager, because as most of the people, just hit enter on the preselected icon and type in the password (a single user machine). Actually it is better than the standard KDM in this regard, because on the old one you had to click and then type, so I usually typed both username and password and didn't bother clicking on the icons. They were just an eyecandy for me in the end or I disabled them altogether. But as said before by others, free software is about choice, nobody is forcing you to use it. If you do not like the design, you are free to select another one. If the new one is better, people will use it. The more choice here, the better, IMHO. Regards, Jan On Thursday 20 February 2003 15:37, manu wrote: > https://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1179 > > > > > > --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-02-20 15:36 --- > > > Is there any reason for the "new" design? > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > We think that KDM availalble in KDE 3.1 is not correctly designed. If you > > don't think as > > us, please use original KDM. We don't remove it. You are free to use it. > > Your vision of "correctly designed" is very special. I think, 95% of the > people will prefer the original kdm. A lot of work has to be done to > improve the usuability of kdmmdk. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+VO7Rn11XseNj94gRAgYpAKCi4hYvGHQqUFwTZaix/hSHGry19wCgzxDP u+oyxMXWA5UajsSdhn8gRVg= =ygM9 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 20 February 2003 09:17 am, Buchan Milne wrote: > > OK, prepare for a whole bunch of replies to a.o.l.m then (only over > weekends) like this: > > 1)NEVER LOG IN AS ROOT. Use MCC or su > 2)If you plan on spending more time than necessary fixing your own > mistakes (do not expect help from me in that case): > # urpmi kdebase-kdm; urpme mdkkdm; echo kde > /etc/sysconfig/desktop > And I'll be right there with you doing the same. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+VOTfGu5uuMFlL5MRAjROAJ9fMyrgSXZ+/jqWN+OJ9yPFV5TLBACfb7YM clDwVJLSnzARnnVk6aZk5mg= =rwp7 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 20 February 2003 08:21 am, Buchan Milne wrote: > > Newbies would learn a lot faster, and not have to reinstall all the > time, if they never logged in as root. > > Most configuation you want to do can be done in Mandrake Control Center, > and you only need to type your password once for it. > > You can run konqueror as root from the menu (Applications->File > Tools->File Manager Super User Mode). > > Anything else, the user should know about su before they want to > consider doing it. > > I agree with this change. If the user is experienced enough to run as > root, they will know how to change it. > > Some things I do not like about mdkkdm, but this is not one of them. > (I am still waiting for keyboard shortcuts for shutdown ...). > Please don't misunderstand, as I think there is another better reason to add this feature as I stated in my earlier post (the ability to hide certain unpriviledged users, but login with them anyway), and I agree that people should be discouraged from the practice. I just want you to be prepared for the criticism that is going to come in the form of flames on MandrakeClub Forums, a.o.l.m, mandrakeusers, etc. There is going to be a lot of criticism about "Mandrake won't let me login as root" and you ought to be prepared for it. The workaround will be to switch to kdm, as is what I will probably do if this does not change, which is not a huge issue. Just be prepared. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+VN+XGu5uuMFlL5MRAkZWAJ455avYBw/fbzOtkeGpV8VT+ep9FQCfXsTC tR6P49eLV38PiLwMqT5PDbM= =Znh3 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1179] [kdebase] Mandrake's new "kdm" is welcomed with extreme displeasure
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 20 February 2003 07:03 am, kde wrote: > https://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1179 > Thank you for responding to this finally. It is important to know your thinking on the matter. If I may offer some feedback on your comments. > The new Mandrake "kdm" that removes the login text field, forces users to > login in only if they are listed, and makes loging in a two-stage process > is a big usability and security problem. > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > There is no security problem. This feature is only available in low > security level. In high security level, you are able to enter all users you > want. There is no icon. And please note that only listed login are > displayed for ages in Mandrake Linux products. This is not a new feature. But I always had the ability to type in a user not listed. You have created an all or nothing situation. Select from list, or type in username. I have three main users that I want on the list. I also have several test users that I user to troubleshoot things. I don't want these test users to show up on the list, but I do want to be able to type in the username when necessary, not login, go to KDE Control Center, change security level, log back out and login again under the other user. Please don't discount this as a usability issue, it is severe > There is no usuability problem. This feature is made for beginners and > people who are not fluent with computers. Apple use this feature for its > login manager and it is a nice feature which make life easier for people > who just want to use a computer to perform a task. All people don't use > computers for pleasure. > Can you make it shake it's head no when the login fails like the Apple login manager does? That's cool :-) > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > I also want to express my displeasure with the "new" kdm. I have to add > root to the list, to login as root which I dont like at all. Yes I know, I > can CTRL-F[1-6], login as root, #startx ... but this sucks. In this form > KDM is just standing in my way. > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Nobody should log as root. All you can do as root can be done from an user > account if you have root password. > > Root is not displayed in login managers for ages. > True, but kdm at least gives you the opportunity to type it in though. Like it or not, a lot of people are going to be pissed off by this, and you are going to take a lot of criticism for this feature. Lot's of newbies like to log in as root because they do not want to type the root password over and over again while they are learning. This may not be the way they should work, but it is the way they want to work. I agree with the premise that we should help them develop good habits, just be prepared for the criticism to come. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Is there any reason for the "new" design? > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > We think that KDM availalble in KDE 3.1 is not correctly designed. If you > don't think as us, please use original KDM. We don't remove it. You are > free to use it. > Thank you for providing the option. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+VNE1Gu5uuMFlL5MRApA+AJ9X77xsb+c0/UOvlgtUTPs6AahtEACfbLB+ BcSm1NAHoqyKSrG6OCHhAfs= =Nw4r -END PGP SIGNATURE-
