Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
Leon Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > the sound card is an i810 with different PCI numbers so is supported > natively in later kernels well with different pci ressources, hance the oops in mdk9.0 :-( > I could live with that and so could 95% of my customers. it seems that some nforce mb use other ethernet adaptors. you may want to buy those mb rather than those who use the nvidia ethernet chip
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
On Wednesday 12 February 2003 09:54 am, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 01:31, Leon Brooks wrote: >> On Tuesday 11 February 2003 06:25 am, Ben Reser wrote: >>> I have to wonder why there isn't a movement to just simply not >>> buy nVidia hardware. >> Because the competing (SiS, here in Oz at least) hardware sucks. Sad but >> true. > VIA? Their all-in-ones cost lots more and (although this doesn't matter to me) their Savage4 descendents lack grunt. Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
On Tuesday 11 February 2003 08:54 pm, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 01:31, Leon Brooks wrote: > > On Tuesday 11 February 2003 06:25 am, Ben Reser wrote: > > > I have to wonder why there isn't a movement to just simply not > > > buy nVidia hardware. > > > > Because the competing (SiS, here in Oz at least) hardware sucks. Sad but > > true. > > VIA? VIA works for me. SiS has always caused me grief in the end. Jim Tarvid
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 01:31, Leon Brooks wrote: > On Tuesday 11 February 2003 06:25 am, Ben Reser wrote: > > I have to wonder why there isn't a movement to just simply not > > buy nVidia hardware. > > Because the competing (SiS, here in Oz at least) hardware sucks. Sad but true. VIA? -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
On Tuesday 11 February 2003 06:25 am, Ben Reser wrote: > I have to wonder why there isn't a movement to just simply not > buy nVidia hardware. Because the competing (SiS, here in Oz at least) hardware sucks. Sad but true. Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
On Monday 10 February 2003 11:07 pm, Götz Waschk wrote: > Am Montag, 10. Februar 2003, 09:00:32 Uhr MET, schrieb Narfi Stefansson: >> Götz:There must be something missing in your statement, such as "you >> can only get accelerated AGP with the closed nvidia graphics >> drivers" or something of that nature. I am writing this from a >> nforce2-based computer, using an nvidia AGP graphics card and I'm >> using the free drivers. > Yes, you're absolutely right. But if I had to buy a new car I wanted > to be able to release the handbrake. That's why your solution isn't an > option for me. For 2D stuff, the difference is not noticeable. If we had an OSS driver for the Ethernet card (the sound card is an i810 with different PCI numbers so is supported natively in later kernels), I could live with that and so could 95% of my customers. Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 14:45:06 +0200 Buchan Milne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My point was that there isn't really much choice now, to get good all > the features on reasonable cards, you need binary-only drivers, > whether from NVidia or ATI The problem at ATI is they have released bi drivers Only for the 8500 ->up. I have 2 original Radeons, not some of the cheap ass crap they trying to pass off as such now, and since 7.2 other than the short period of time recently when drm was not in the kernel pkg I have had no performance problem from either card. I also have 2 nvidia cards, a g2 and a g3 and i use the bi drivers, which can be fun sometimes when the kernel is updated almost daily, finally moved the g3 to a 9.0 system. $ for $ and feature for feature the most stable and dependable cards I have are the ATI Xpert2000 with rage 128, and again the orig 128 not the 128 Pro that they are using now. The only way I see Nvidia considering open sourcing there drivers for linux would be for the PC gaming industry to make a Serious entry into the linux market. Charles -- Join in the new game that's sweeping the country. It's called "Bureaucracy". Everybody stands in a circle. The first person to do anything loses. - Mandrake Linux 9.1 Kernel- 2.4.21pre4-5mdk - msg91461/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
Charles A Edwards wrote: > On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:10:10 +0200 > Buchan Milne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>less effort to get a fully-working NVidia card than a >>fully-working Radeon card under Mandrake, and ATI now also ships >>binary-only drivers for the new Radeons. > > > Any drivers for the radeon=>8500 other than the binary from ATI are > provided by either XFree or Gatos not by Mandrake > On Mandrake XFree is provided by Mandrake ... My point was that there isn't really much choice now, to get good all the features on reasonable cards, you need binary-only drivers, whether from NVidia or ATI ... so there is no real way to change vendors. People who bought Radeon7000 series cards have more problems with getting all the features working under Mandrake than people using cheaper but equivalent Nvidia cards, even though the Radeon's were supposed to be fully supported by free drivers. So, NVidia may want to consider open-sourcing their drivers in an effort to gain market share IMHO. Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:10:10 +0200 Buchan Milne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > less effort to get a fully-working NVidia card than a > fully-working Radeon card under Mandrake, and ATI now also ships > binary-only drivers for the new Radeons. Any drivers for the radeon=>8500 other than the binary from ATI are provided by either XFree or Gatos not by Mandrake Charles -- 'I don't like to ask them questions.' 'Why not?' 'They might give me answers. And then what would I do?' (Lords and Ladies) - Mandrake Linux 9.1 Kernel- 2.4.21pre4-5mdk - msg91453/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
Ben Reser wrote: > On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 03:40:41PM -0500, Greg Meyer wrote: > If we want nVidia to take us seriously we really need to not berate them > unreasonably. Now if someone at Mandrakesoft has already asked and they > said no, I have to wonder why there isn't a movement to just simply not > buy nVidia hardware. > A while back people did, and bought Radeon's instead. However, it seems to be less effort to get a fully-working NVidia card than a fully-working Radeon card under Mandrake, and ATI now also ships binary-only drivers for the new Radeons. Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 03:40:41PM -0500, Greg Meyer wrote: > It is not a violation of the GPL, it is a violation of nVidia's > license, which would allow distribution only with permission. > MandrakeSoft can get permission for the boxed sets, because those are > not redistributable. They can also get permission from nVidia to > allow download from Club site. But to include them on the > redistributable GPL set would prevent the GPL set from being > redistributable. If I downloaded the GPL set and wanted to > redistribute, I would have to get permission from nVidia to do so, and > so would anyone else that wanted to do the same. -- Greg This has to be baloney. I know what nVidia's license says. I just can't imagine they would be so unreasonable as to want to make it more difficult for their customers to use their products. I'm sure if Mandrake approached them they would be willing to allow them to distribute the drivers in the "Download Edition." Rather, I think the situation is that nobody from Mandrakesoft has asked nVidia, because they oppose including non-free software in the "Download Edition." If we want nVidia to take us seriously we really need to not berate them unreasonably. Now if someone at Mandrakesoft has already asked and they said no, I have to wonder why there isn't a movement to just simply not buy nVidia hardware. -- Ben Reser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://ben.reser.org "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion only of her own." -- John Quincy Adams, July 4th, 1821
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 10 February 2003 01:36 pm, Ben Reser wrote: > On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 09:10:20AM -0500, Greg Meyer wrote: > > "Some of your hardware (insert specific's) is from a vendor that prevents > > us from providing full support in the GPL download edition of the > > Mandrake Linux Distribution. They have chosen to release their drivers > > under a proprietary license and MandrakeSoft cannot legally distribute > > them within a fully GPL compliant release. You will find that this > > hardware will not work properly with the download edition until you > > acquire these proprietary drivers from the manufacturer. As a service to > > our customers, some of these drivers are available in the Mandrake Linux > > boxed sets and as a download from the MandrakeClub" > > Are we sure that it's a violation of the GPL to distribute those > drivers? I really don't think that's the case. And somehow I don't > think the situation is that nVidia wouldn't let Mandrake ship the > drivers. I think it's more of a moral stance and an attempt to try and > force nVidia to open their drivers. It is not a violation of the GPL, it is a violation of nVidia's license, which would allow distribution only with permission. MandrakeSoft can get permission for the boxed sets, because those are not redistributable. They can also get permission from nVidia to allow download from Club site. But to include them on the redistributable GPL set would prevent the GPL set from being redistributable. If I downloaded the GPL set and wanted to redistribute, I would have to get permission from nVidia to do so, and so would anyone else that wanted to do the same. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+SA5LwDpHP6GALAARApEUAJ9stFFe1R2oO8ZHUw+CuvpGDGA7UQCfSb5D VNfVVtjx47XsNjaA3BVvlcA= =wYDU -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
Ben Reser wrote: > On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 09:10:20AM -0500, Greg Meyer wrote: > >>"Some of your hardware (insert specific's) is from a vendor that prevents us >>from providing full support in the GPL download edition of the Mandrake Linux >>Distribution. They have chosen to release their drivers under a proprietary >>license and MandrakeSoft cannot legally distribute them within a fully GPL >>compliant release. You will find that this hardware will not work properly >>with the download edition until you acquire these proprietary drivers from >>the manufacturer. As a service to our customers, some of these drivers are >>available in the Mandrake Linux boxed sets and as a download from the >>MandrakeClub" > > > Are we sure that it's a violation of the GPL to distribute those > drivers? I really don't think that's the case. And somehow I don't > think the situation is that nVidia wouldn't let Mandrake ship the > drivers. I think it's more of a moral stance and an attempt to try and > force nVidia to open their drivers. > Well, there's no way you're going to fit the entire issue absolutely correctly into one dialog, and it would probably be longer than the licesne screen, guaranteeing that no users would read it. In essence, all you need to tell the users is: -All features are not supported in the download version -All features are supported in commercial versions, easy setup is available by joining MandrakeClub (but someone has to ensure this ...) They can figure out why later. Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 09:10:20AM -0500, Greg Meyer wrote: > "Some of your hardware (insert specific's) is from a vendor that prevents us > from providing full support in the GPL download edition of the Mandrake Linux > Distribution. They have chosen to release their drivers under a proprietary > license and MandrakeSoft cannot legally distribute them within a fully GPL > compliant release. You will find that this hardware will not work properly > with the download edition until you acquire these proprietary drivers from > the manufacturer. As a service to our customers, some of these drivers are > available in the Mandrake Linux boxed sets and as a download from the > MandrakeClub" Are we sure that it's a violation of the GPL to distribute those drivers? I really don't think that's the case. And somehow I don't think the situation is that nVidia wouldn't let Mandrake ship the drivers. I think it's more of a moral stance and an attempt to try and force nVidia to open their drivers. -- Ben Reser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://ben.reser.org "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion only of her own." -- John Quincy Adams, July 4th, 1821
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
Am Montag, 10. Februar 2003, 09:00:32 Uhr MET, schrieb Narfi Stefansson: > On Monday 10 February 2003 08:50, Götz Waschk wrote: > > The nforce2 would be a really nice chipset for a linux desktop, but > > you cannot use non-NVidia graphic boards with this chipset, as the AGP > > part isn't supported (yet). There's only AGP support for nforce2 in the > > closed source NVidia graphics drivers. > Götz:There must be something missing in your statement, such as "you > can only get accelerated AGP with the closed nvidia graphics > drivers" or something of that nature. I am writing this from a > nforce2-based computer, using an nvidia AGP graphics card and I'm > using the free drivers. Yes, you're absolutely right. But if I had to buy a new car I wanted to be able to release the handbrake. That's why your solution isn't an option for me. -- Götz Waschk <> master of computer science <> University of Rostock http://wwwtec.informatik.uni-rostock.de/~waschk/waschk.asc for PGP key --> Logout Fascism! <--
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
On Monday 10 February 2003 08:50, Götz Waschk wrote: > Am Montag, 10. Februar 2003, 15:24:57 Uhr MET, schrieb Giuseppe Ghibò: > > why not taking another NON-NVidia card with supported drivers? If for > > the video driver thay probably says that OpenGL drivers contains > > code from SGI which can't be redistributed, they have no excuse > > for not releasing full NForce drivers OSS. > > The nforce2 would be a really nice chipset for a linux desktop, but > you cannot use non-NVidia graphic boards with this chipset, as the AGP > part isn't supported (yet). There's only AGP support for nforce2 in the > closed source NVidia graphics drivers. Götz:There must be something missing in your statement, such as "you can only get accelerated AGP with the closed nvidia graphics drivers" or something of that nature. I am writing this from a nforce2-based computer, using an nvidia AGP graphics card and I'm using the free drivers. Narfi.
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 09:37, Buchan Milne wrote: > Ideally this would be true for my Lucent Technologies Winmodem (it's > quite high on the MandrakeClub voting list). Draks already tells me that my Vortex soundcard has no OSS driver and consequently no OSS driver (there's a play on words in there) and it redirects me to the webpage with the semi-binary drivers. I thought it was a great feature when I saw it. I tried to package the Vortex drivers for the club once, but ran into a snag and never finished. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
Am Montag, 10. Februar 2003, 15:24:57 Uhr MET, schrieb Giuseppe Ghibò: > why not taking another NON-NVidia card with supported drivers? If for > the video driver thay probably says that OpenGL drivers contains > code from SGI which can't be redistributed, they have no excuse > for not releasing full NForce drivers OSS. The nforce2 would be a really nice chipset for a linux desktop, but you cannot use non-NVidia graphic boards with this chipset, as the AGP part isn't supported (yet). There's only AGP support for nforce2 in the closed source NVidia graphics drivers. -- Götz Waschk <> master of computer science <> University of Rostock http://wwwtec.informatik.uni-rostock.de/~waschk/waschk.asc for PGP key --> Logout Fascism! <--
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
Leon Brooks wrote: It's a nice thought (and it won't hurt to ask, so I will do that now), but in the absence of OSS drivers for NVidia, we could rewrite their nforce LAN card driver and get by with referring to a page at Mandrake that explains how to deal with NVidia cards. why not taking another NON-NVidia card with supported drivers? If for the video driver thay probably says that OpenGL drivers contains code from SGI which can't be redistributed, they have no excuse for not releasing full NForce drivers OSS. Bye. Giuseppe.
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On February 10, 2003 09:10, Greg Meyer wrote: > On Monday 10 February 2003 09:01 am, Buchan Milne wrote: > > "You are using hardware that is not supported sufficiently by > > the vendor to provide open-source drivers, and thus Mandrake > > Linux cannot fully support this hardware in the download > > edition. Your hardware is however supported fully in the > > Mandrake Linux packs, and the drivers are available from the > > MandrakeClub". > > Good idea! > > How about > > "Some of your hardware (insert specific's) is from a vendor that > prevents us from providing full support in the GPL download > edition of the Mandrake Linux Distribution. They have chosen to > release their drivers under a proprietary license and > MandrakeSoft cannot legally distribute them within a fully GPL > compliant release. You will find that this hardware will not > work properly with the download edition until you acquire these > proprietary drivers from the manufacturer. As a service to our > customers, some of these drivers are available in the Mandrake > Linux boxed sets and as a download from the MandrakeClub" How about we collapse it a bit to: "Your hardware (insert specifics) is from a vendor that has chosen to release their drivers under a proprietary license. MandrakeSoft works hard to keep our download edition GPL-compliant. This hardware will not work properly unless you acquire the proprietary drivers from the manufacturer. As a service to our customers, some of these drivers are included in the Mandrake Linux boxed sets or can be downloaded from the MandrakeClub." - -- Dave Fluri PGP Public Key-ID 3F64B9AC -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+R7jIo1mPmT9kuawRAqz+AJ4iIUpQxQcNGdpnzdjtpR6x0iYDXQCcC5lo KY1pG+7N3X1FlQnjI/8974s= =1FRO -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
Greg Meyer wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Monday 10 February 2003 09:01 am, Buchan Milne wrote: > >>"You are using hardware that is not supported sufficiently by the vendor >>to provide open-source drivers, and thus Mandrake Linux cannot fully >>support this hardware in the download edition. Your hardware is however >>supported fully in the Mandrake Linux packs, and the drivers are >>available from the MandrakeClub". > > > Good idea! > > How about > > "Some of your hardware (insert specific's) is from a vendor that prevents us > from providing full support in the GPL download edition of the Mandrake Linux > Distribution. They have chosen to release their drivers under a proprietary > license and MandrakeSoft cannot legally distribute them within a fully GPL > compliant release. You will find that this hardware will not work properly > with the download edition until you acquire these proprietary drivers from > the manufacturer. As a service to our customers, some of these drivers are > available in the Mandrake Linux boxed sets and as a download from the > MandrakeClub" Sure, the wording needs to be massaged, but the point that (if this is the case, as it is with Nvidia) the hardware will work out-the-box on Mandrake sets needs to be out across. Ideally this would be true for my Lucent Technologies Winmodem (it's quite high on the MandrakeClub voting list). While we're discussing this, would anyone at Mandrakesoft like to make a list of the hardware with proprietary or semi-proprietary drivers that will be supported in the boxes? I would be very dissappointed to buy a boxed set and not get ltmodem drivers out-the-box, even though it's trivial to compile them (I recompiled last week for the kernel update on 9.0). It's the principle ... Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 10 February 2003 09:01 am, Buchan Milne wrote: > "You are using hardware that is not supported sufficiently by the vendor > to provide open-source drivers, and thus Mandrake Linux cannot fully > support this hardware in the download edition. Your hardware is however > supported fully in the Mandrake Linux packs, and the drivers are > available from the MandrakeClub". Good idea! How about "Some of your hardware (insert specific's) is from a vendor that prevents us from providing full support in the GPL download edition of the Mandrake Linux Distribution. They have chosen to release their drivers under a proprietary license and MandrakeSoft cannot legally distribute them within a fully GPL compliant release. You will find that this hardware will not work properly with the download edition until you acquire these proprietary drivers from the manufacturer. As a service to our customers, some of these drivers are available in the Mandrake Linux boxed sets and as a download from the MandrakeClub" - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+R7LNwDpHP6GALAARAqCyAJ9CHOBJM2JG4nqYrUiUaE5VOzB4FwCfeTW7 Op5LJUYJPGL8OFtQu61mb0A= =I+UT -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
Leon Brooks wrote: > On Monday 10 February 2003 05:06 pm, Giuseppe Ghibò wrote: > >>Maybe NVidia, now that they lost the >>crown of faster 3D card even on newer GeForce FX against >>ATI, can think to release freely their drivers freely (which I doubt) >>trying to conquer other markets, like those of Linux >>3D workstations. You can try to ask them... > > > It's a nice thought (and it won't hurt to ask, so I will do that now), but in > the absence of OSS drivers for NVidia, we could rewrite their nforce LAN card > driver and get by with referring to a page at Mandrake that explains how to > deal with NVidia cards. Why not tell the user during installation??? There are so many complaints about Mandrake supposedly not supporting NVidia hardware, that I propose XFdrake (and this goes for the case on linmodems), something like this: "You are using hardware that is not supported sufficiently by the vendor to provide open-source drivers, and thus Mandrake Linux cannot fully support this hardware in the download edition. Your hardware is however supported fully in the Mandrake Linux packs, and the drivers are available from the MandrakeClub". Use this as an opportunity to advertise commercial packs or the Club, rather than leave the user guessing. Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
On Monday 10 February 2003 05:06 pm, Giuseppe Ghibò wrote: > Maybe NVidia, now that they lost the > crown of faster 3D card even on newer GeForce FX against > ATI, can think to release freely their drivers freely (which I doubt) > trying to conquer other markets, like those of Linux > 3D workstations. You can try to ask them... It's a nice thought (and it won't hurt to ask, so I will do that now), but in the absence of OSS drivers for NVidia, we could rewrite their nforce LAN card driver and get by with referring to a page at Mandrake that explains how to deal with NVidia cards. Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] Re: nvidia woes (possibly cured)
Note that apart license issues, since the removing of netscape 4.7X, we no longer includes in main distrib packages for which there aren't sources. NVidia doesn't include them, since even their multi-distrib .src.rpm includes binary only files and libraries and were even compiled with old egcs compilers. Maybe NVidia, now that they lost the crown of faster 3D card even on newer GeForce FX against ATI, can think to release freely their drivers freely (which I doubt) trying to conquer other markets, like those of Linux 3D workstations. You can try to ask them... Bye. Giuseppe.
