Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Michal Widlok]

Hello Igor,

I've tried Yours procedure, but again no success. Anyway the bios
update was what make this board "unbootable" in the first place. I
think that I will just replace it with another one that is working
with original bios and with coreboot (again disassembly and soldering,
ufff).
Best Regards,
Michael Widlok

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Igor Skochinsky  wrote:
>
>
>
>>Четверг,  9 февраля 2017, 12:16 +01:00 от Michal Widlok 
>>:
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>Igor - I've checked it again. Mac is really at addresses 0x5F6000, 0x5F7000 - 
>>or my ghex editor does not work :-). The flash chip is 8MB (0x80), so 
>>fits right in. I will try Yours procedure, but I'm concerned about cutting 
>>image at 0x40 - are You talking about 4MB flash? All my laptops has 8MB.
>
> Ah, looks like you should use the files from the 7UET94WW directory, which 
> are 8MB for (unpacked) FL1 and 4MB for FL2 (you should use 20- 40 
> from it).
>
>>
>>Zoran - Michael is OK. In fact in polish Michal should end with special 
>>polish letter "ł", so I'm not sure if "international" Michael is not better 
>>anyway.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>Michal Widlok
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Zoran Stojsavljevic  < 
>>zoran.stojsavlje...@gmail.com > wrote:
>>>Hello Igor,
>>>
>>>Interesting emails. I should admit. For sure worth exploration, especially 
>>>GIT Hub application. :-)
>>>
>>>Michal (finally, I got your correct name, idiot me),
>>>
>>>I'll come back to this thread. I am last 3 days very busy. Very very busy, 
>>>but, certainly, I'll get free time, and will explore this opportunity, since 
>>>it makes my old, not so sharp anymore eyes very wide!
>>>
>>>Thank you all,
>>>Zoran
>>>
>>>On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Igor Skochinsky via coreboot  < 
>>>coreboot@coreboot.org > wrote:
P.S.


Hello Michal,

The T400 BIOS is in a Pre-UEFI Phoenix FFV format. You can use 
phoenix_extract.py[1] to extract modules from it.

To go back to Lenovo BIOS you can try the following:

1) download an update from lenovo (e.g. 7uuj49us.exe)
2) unpack it with innounp

2b) apparently innoextract [2] can be used on non-Windows platforms

[2]:  http://constexpr.org/innoextract/


3a) take the FL2 file (e.g. $01B8100.FL2),  cut out from 0x20 to 
0x40 and use the resulting image to replace coreboot in the BIOS region 
(end of flash).
3b) take the FL1 file  (e.g. $01B8100.FL1), unpack it with bcpvd from [1] 
and flash the result (it's a complete flash image with descriptor and ME) 
after cutting it at 0x40
4) according to the descriptor in unpacked FL1 , the GbE region is at 
001F6000 - 001F7FFF, so that's the most likely place for storing the MAC 
address. I'm not sure why your desc.rom lists 5F6000 - 005F7FFF... I think 
that's outside the flash chip.

[1]:  https://github.com/coreboot/bios_extract

--
WBR,
 Igor mailto:rox...@skynet.be



--
WBR,
 Igor mailto:skochin...@mail.ru
--
coreboot mailing list:  coreboot@coreboot.org
https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>>>
>>
>>--
>>coreboot mailing list:  coreboot@coreboot.org
>>https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
> WBR, Igor
> mailto:skochin...@mail.ru

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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Igor Skochinsky via coreboot]

>Четверг,  9 февраля 2017, 12:16 +01:00 от Michal Widlok 
>:
>
>Hello,
>
>Igor - I've checked it again. Mac is really at addresses 0x5F6000, 0x5F7000 - 
>or my ghex editor does not work :-). The flash chip is 8MB (0x80), so fits 
>right in. I will try Yours procedure, but I'm concerned about cutting image at 
>0x40 - are You talking about 4MB flash? All my laptops has 8MB. 

Ah, looks like you should use the files from the 7UET94WW directory, which are 
8MB for (unpacked) FL1 and 4MB for FL2 (you should use 20- 40 from it).

>
>Zoran - Michael is OK. In fact in polish Michal should end with special polish 
>letter "ł", so I'm not sure if "international" Michael is not better anyway.
>
>Best Regards,
>Michal Widlok
>
>
>On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Zoran Stojsavljevic  < 
>zoran.stojsavlje...@gmail.com > wrote:
>>Hello Igor,
>>
>>Interesting emails. I should admit. For sure worth exploration, especially 
>>GIT Hub application. :-)
>>
>>Michal (finally, I got your correct name, idiot me),
>>
>>I'll come back to this thread. I am last 3 days very busy. Very very busy, 
>>but, certainly, I'll get free time, and will explore this opportunity, since 
>>it makes my old, not so sharp anymore eyes very wide!
>>
>>Thank you all,
>>Zoran
>>
>>On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Igor Skochinsky via coreboot  < 
>>coreboot@coreboot.org > wrote:
>>>P.S.
>>>
>>>
>>>Hello Michal,
>>>
>>>The T400 BIOS is in a Pre-UEFI Phoenix FFV format. You can use 
>>>phoenix_extract.py[1] to extract modules from it.
>>>
>>>To go back to Lenovo BIOS you can try the following:
>>>
>>>1) download an update from lenovo (e.g. 7uuj49us.exe)
>>>2) unpack it with innounp
>>>
>>>2b) apparently innoextract [2] can be used on non-Windows platforms
>>>
>>>[2]:  http://constexpr.org/innoextract/
>>>
>>>
>>>3a) take the FL2 file (e.g. $01B8100.FL2),  cut out from 0x20 to 
>>>0x40 and use the resulting image to replace coreboot in the BIOS region 
>>>(end of flash).
>>>3b) take the FL1 file  (e.g. $01B8100.FL1), unpack it with bcpvd from [1] 
>>>and flash the result (it's a complete flash image with descriptor and ME) 
>>>after cutting it at 0x40
>>>4) according to the descriptor in unpacked FL1 , the GbE region is at 
>>>001F6000 - 001F7FFF, so that's the most likely place for storing the MAC 
>>>address. I'm not sure why your desc.rom lists 5F6000 - 005F7FFF... I think 
>>>that's outside the flash chip.
>>>
>>>[1]:  https://github.com/coreboot/bios_extract
>>>
>>>-- 
>>>WBR,
>>> Igor                             mailto:rox...@skynet.be
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-- 
>>>WBR,
>>> Igor                             mailto:skochin...@mail.ru
>>>--
>>>coreboot mailing list:  coreboot@coreboot.org
>>>https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>>
>
>-- 
>coreboot mailing list:  coreboot@coreboot.org
>https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot

WBR, Igor
mailto:skochin...@mail.ru
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Michal Widlok]

Hello,

Igor - I've checked it again. Mac is really at addresses 0x5F6000, 0x5F7000
- or my ghex editor does not work :-). The flash chip is 8MB (0x80), so
fits right in. I will try Yours procedure, but I'm concerned about cutting
image at 0x40 - are You talking about 4MB flash? All my laptops has 8MB.
Zoran - Michael is OK. In fact in polish Michal should end with special
polish letter "ł", so I'm not sure if "international" Michael is not better
anyway.

Best Regards,
Michal Widlok


On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Zoran Stojsavljevic <
zoran.stojsavlje...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Igor,
>
> Interesting emails. I should admit. For sure worth exploration, especially
> GIT Hub application. :-)
>
> Michal (finally, I got your correct name, idiot me),
>
> I'll come back to this thread. I am last 3 days very busy. Very very busy,
> but, certainly, I'll get free time, and will explore this opportunity,
> since it makes my old, not so sharp anymore eyes very wide!
>
> Thank you all,
> Zoran
>
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Igor Skochinsky via coreboot <
> coreboot@coreboot.org> wrote:
>
>> P.S.
>>
>>
>> Hello Michal,
>>
>> The T400 BIOS is in a Pre-UEFI Phoenix FFV format. You can use
>> phoenix_extract.py[1] to extract modules from it.
>>
>> To go back to Lenovo BIOS you can try the following:
>>
>> 1) download an update from lenovo (e.g. 7uuj49us.exe)
>> 2) unpack it with innounp
>>
>> 2b) apparently innoextract [2] can be used on non-Windows platforms
>>
>> [2]: http://constexpr.org/innoextract/
>>
>>
>> 3a) take the FL2 file (e.g. $01B8100.FL2),  cut out from 0x20 to
>> 0x40 and use the resulting image to replace coreboot in the BIOS region
>> (end of flash).
>> 3b) take the FL1 file  (e.g. $01B8100.FL1), unpack it with bcpvd from [1]
>> and flash the result (it's a complete flash image with descriptor and ME)
>> after cutting it at 0x40
>> 4) according to the descriptor in unpacked FL1 , the GbE region is at
>> 001F6000 - 001F7FFF, so that's the most likely place for storing the MAC
>> address. I'm not sure why your desc.rom lists 5F6000 - 005F7FFF... I think
>> that's outside the flash chip.
>>
>> [1]: https://github.com/coreboot/bios_extract
>>
>>
>>
>> *--  WBR,  Igormailto:rox...@skynet.be
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--  WBR,  Igormailto:skochin...@mail.ru
>> *
>>
>> --
>> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
>> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>>
>
>
-- 
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https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot

Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Zoran Stojsavljevic]

Hello Igor,

Interesting emails. I should admit. For sure worth exploration, especially
GIT Hub application. :-)

Michal (finally, I got your correct name, idiot me),

I'll come back to this thread. I am last 3 days very busy. Very very busy,
but, certainly, I'll get free time, and will explore this opportunity,
since it makes my old, not so sharp anymore eyes very wide!

Thank you all,
Zoran

On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Igor Skochinsky via coreboot <
coreboot@coreboot.org> wrote:

> P.S.
>
>
> Hello Michal,
>
> The T400 BIOS is in a Pre-UEFI Phoenix FFV format. You can use
> phoenix_extract.py[1] to extract modules from it.
>
> To go back to Lenovo BIOS you can try the following:
>
> 1) download an update from lenovo (e.g. 7uuj49us.exe)
> 2) unpack it with innounp
>
> 2b) apparently innoextract [2] can be used on non-Windows platforms
>
> [2]: http://constexpr.org/innoextract/
>
>
> 3a) take the FL2 file (e.g. $01B8100.FL2),  cut out from 0x20 to
> 0x40 and use the resulting image to replace coreboot in the BIOS region
> (end of flash).
> 3b) take the FL1 file  (e.g. $01B8100.FL1), unpack it with bcpvd from [1]
> and flash the result (it's a complete flash image with descriptor and ME)
> after cutting it at 0x40
> 4) according to the descriptor in unpacked FL1 , the GbE region is at
> 001F6000 - 001F7FFF, so that's the most likely place for storing the MAC
> address. I'm not sure why your desc.rom lists 5F6000 - 005F7FFF... I think
> that's outside the flash chip.
>
> [1]: https://github.com/coreboot/bios_extract
>
>
>
> *--  WBR,  Igormailto:rox...@skynet.be
> *
>
>
>
>
>
> *--  WBR,  Igormailto:skochin...@mail.ru
> *
>
> --
> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
-- 
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Igor Skochinsky via coreboot]

Title: Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS


P.S.





Hello Michal,

The T400 BIOS is in a Pre-UEFI Phoenix FFV format. You can use phoenix_extract.py[1] to extract modules from it.

To go back to Lenovo BIOS you can try the following:

1) download an update from lenovo (e.g. 7uuj49us.exe)
2) unpack it with innounp



2b) apparently innoextract [2] can be used on non-Windows platforms

[2]: http://constexpr.org/innoextract/





3a) take the FL2 file (e.g. $01B8100.FL2),  cut out from 0x20 to 0x40 and use the resulting image to replace coreboot in the BIOS region (end of flash).
3b) take the FL1 file  (e.g. $01B8100.FL1), unpack it with bcpvd from [1] and flash the result (it's a complete flash image with descriptor and ME) after cutting it at 0x40
4) according to the descriptor in unpacked FL1 , the GbE region is at 001F6000 - 001F7FFF, so that's the most likely place for storing the MAC address. I'm not sure why your desc.rom lists 5F6000 - 005F7FFF... I think that's outside the flash chip.

[1]: https://github.com/coreboot/bios_extract

-- 
WBR,
 Igor                            mailto:rox...@skynet.be





-- 
WBR,
 Igor                            mailto:skochin...@mail.ru


-- 
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Igor Skochinsky via coreboot]

Title: Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS


Hello Michal,

The T400 BIOS is in a Pre-UEFI Phoenix FFV format. You can use phoenix_extract.py[1] to extract modules from it.

To go back to Lenovo BIOS you can try the following:

1) download an update from lenovo (e.g. 7uuj49us.exe)
2) unpack it with innounp
3a) take the FL2 file (e.g. $01B8100.FL2),  cut out from 0x20 to 0x40 and use the resulting image to replace coreboot in the BIOS region (end of flash).
3b) take the FL1 file  (e.g. $01B8100.FL1), unpack it with bcpvd from [1] and flash the result (it's a complete flash image with descriptor and ME) after cutting it at 0x40
4) according to the descriptor in unpacked FL1 , the GbE region is at 001F6000 - 001F7FFF, so that's the most likely place for storing the MAC address. I'm not sure why your desc.rom lists 5F6000 - 005F7FFF... I think that's outside the flash chip.

[1]: https://github.com/coreboot/bios_extract

-- 
WBR,
 Igor                            mailto:rox...@skynet.be


-- 
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Michal Widlok]

Hello Zoran,

I've run quite a lot of test recently and the results are in fact
inconclusive... Following is the (long) description of experiments I made
recently and in the past.

1. BIOS structure. T400 Bios does not fully looks like T420. It seems that
BIOS does not start at 0x50 more likely at 0x60 The MAC address can
be find 4 or 5 times in the image at: 0x22F48, 0x81FDD, 0x5F6000, 0x5F7000.
In fact it is in different places in different images, however last 2
locations 0x5F6000, 0x5F7000 are always the same. Looking around I find
nice info about the bios, made by people that by-pass whitelists in lenovo
bioses - You might find it interesting:
http://www.endeer.cz/bios.tools/
http://www.endeer.cz/bios.tools/bios.html
http://web.dodds.net/~vorlon/wiki/blog/Upgrading_a_ThinkPad_BIOS/
With phnxsplit I was able to get 60 different files out of the bios image
and it seems that the tool works right. I'm attaching a list of modules the
program found, description of "code characters" can be found in phnxfunc.c.
This tool compiles on Linux, but it need some simple patching because of
tons of compiler warnings.

2. Coreboot/libreboot. For testing I used precompiled libreboot image from
https://libreboot.org/release/stable/20160907/rom/grub/ made for T400. Can
be put on any machine (overwritting all flash chip) and it works equally
well. MAC adresses are at 0x1000 and 0x2000 in the image and can be changed
with ich9gen - I think that You know it well.

3. Moving bioses - this is strange. In the past when I just started working
on T400 I had one board with already installed coreboot and one with
original bios. Coreboot board had ati and intel graphics, while bios board
only intel. I decided to exchange flash chips and it worked. Now it really
sounds strange, but both boards booted OK and original bios correctly
detected that it is on dual graphics board and show right menu options.
Then after upgrading bios to the latest version (3.22) the board
experienced long booting problem. It happens and there are threads on
lenovo forums about it, so I assume that it nothing to do with the chip
exchange. I tried to fix by changing settings of TPM chip and after
enabling it the board did not boot at all - I left the board as spare parts
supply then.
Now I took it back and started to experiment: put the libreboot image -
works right, but any other original bios image and it does not boot.
On the other hand other board (with just intel graphics) works with any
original bios image - I've tried 2 different, again overwritting whole
chip.
It seems that the problem is not related to flash chip data but maybe to
RFID memory You mentioned, or TPM. I don't know what can I do about it -
maybe boot the machine with coreboot and then try to change some TPM
settings on Linux??

4. Further tests. I put back 2 T400 laptops with easily accessible
programming connectors, so now I can play with any images without
complicated disassembly. If there is anything I can check/post/try then let
mo know. My ultimate dream would be to have tp_smapi functionality in
coreboot, but it seems that this is a long way ahead. Anyway I am attaching
descriptor (0x0-0x1000) from original bios image.

Very Best Regards,
Michael Widlok

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 6:00 PM, Zoran Stojsavljevic <
zoran.stojsavlje...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Michael,
>
> Before doing any programming, I have here couple suggestions to you. You
> should investigate.
>
> Namely, this: http://thinkwiki.de/UEFI_BIOS_T420_BIOS_Structure
>
> Also, you should look upon the movie here: https://www.youtube.com/
> watch?v=DLwaKb6pLrc=player_embedded
>
> Since I am not sure that T420 UEFI BIOS is the same structure as legacy
> BIOS T400 has (since I remember that T420 is UEFI, legacy/CSM was on - I
> had one at work since 2011 till 2014). But it is worth trying, nothing to
> lose.
>
> Knowing that T420 BIOS structure looks like (and I bet it is stored in
> only one 8MB flash, as my best bet):
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
> You should read your T400 Coreboot flash content, and try to see if it
> complies with the given above structure. If it does, you are All Cool.
> Namely, you should try to read GbE region, and see where the MAC address
> (which you find using Linux command: ifconfig -a). If you appear to find
> the spot, you are 100% sure you are All Good, since then you'll read
> another BIOS content, and after you will have lot of possibilities for
> experiments:
> [1] You can reprogram the BIOS from original BIOS to your Coreboot flash
> rewriting last 0x30 bytes;
> [2] You can rewrite original MAC address to another BIOS, and try to boot;
> [3] You can compare/combine regions, and see what'll happen?!
> [4] You name it!
>
> I have no idea if you tampered with ME... And no idea if ME for each
> LENOVO specimen keeps some unique data from/for the platform.
>
> But I am eager to hear/read what did you find investigating about T400
> structure, does it looks the same as T420, and 

Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Zoran Stojsavljevic]

Hello Michael,

Before doing any programming, I have here couple suggestions to you. You
should investigate.

Namely, this: http://thinkwiki.de/UEFI_BIOS_T420_BIOS_Structure

Also, you should look upon the movie here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLwaKb6pLrc=player_embedded

Since I am not sure that T420 UEFI BIOS is the same structure as legacy
BIOS T400 has (since I remember that T420 is UEFI, legacy/CSM was on - I
had one at work since 2011 till 2014). But it is worth trying, nothing to
lose.

Knowing that T420 BIOS structure looks like (and I bet it is stored in only
one 8MB flash, as my best bet):

[image: Inline image 1]

You should read your T400 Coreboot flash content, and try to see if it
complies with the given above structure. If it does, you are All Cool.
Namely, you should try to read GbE region, and see where the MAC address
(which you find using Linux command: ifconfig -a). If you appear to find
the spot, you are 100% sure you are All Good, since then you'll read
another BIOS content, and after you will have lot of possibilities for
experiments:
[1] You can reprogram the BIOS from original BIOS to your Coreboot flash
rewriting last 0x30 bytes;
[2] You can rewrite original MAC address to another BIOS, and try to boot;
[3] You can compare/combine regions, and see what'll happen?!
[4] You name it!

I have no idea if you tampered with ME... And no idea if ME for each LENOVO
specimen keeps some unique data from/for the platform.

But I am eager to hear/read what did you find investigating about T400
structure, does it looks the same as T420, and et cetera. :-)

You can also read descriptor region, and post it somewhere, so we can peek
into it (I remember, I have somewhere some explanations about some of these
descriptor region data).

Thank you,
Zoran

On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 8:41 AM, Michal Widlok 
wrote:

> Zoran, I'm working on this subject now, but I need to do regular work too
> :-).
>
> Seriously I'm in the process of changing my current stationary
> work-horse to two T400 laptops on docking stations. I've just received
> docks (very dirty, noisy fans) and I borrowed my Raspberry programmer
> to a friend. I hope to finish working on hardware this weekend and I
> will be ready to play with bioses when I get Raspberry back. I think
> that the first method would be to "copy" flash from one board to
> another and we will see. I also try to change MAC in original bios,
> maybe this is possible. I will report everything back, hope it will
> help someone.
> Michael Widlok
>
> PS. Sorry for double mail I messed addresses.
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:58 PM, Zoran Stojsavljevic
>  wrote:
> > Ron, I do agree, does not seem to be promising. It will add problems down
> > the road, as requirements grow.
> >
> > Zoran
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 8:45 PM, ron minnich  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:45 AM Zoran Stojsavljevic
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ron, any (practical) example of above described practices? I have in my
> >>> laptops here 6 x 4 GB DIMM modules and 2 x 8GB DIMM modules, all of
> them
> >>> have SPD mounted.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> DIMMs are so great but so old school :-)
> >>
> >> on some systems, in flash, there are 4 and 8 element tables which are
> >> indexed by GPIOs .You use the 2 or 3 bits from 2-3 GPIOs to index the
> table
> >> and that's how you get your RAM programming. No SPD. You can see how
> much
> >> room this leaves for problems.
> >>
> >> This is just one simple example.
> >>
> >> ron
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
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> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Michal Widlok]

Zoran, I'm working on this subject now, but I need to do regular work too :-).

Seriously I'm in the process of changing my current stationary
work-horse to two T400 laptops on docking stations. I've just received
docks (very dirty, noisy fans) and I borrowed my Raspberry programmer
to a friend. I hope to finish working on hardware this weekend and I
will be ready to play with bioses when I get Raspberry back. I think
that the first method would be to "copy" flash from one board to
another and we will see. I also try to change MAC in original bios,
maybe this is possible. I will report everything back, hope it will
help someone.
Michael Widlok

PS. Sorry for double mail I messed addresses.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:58 PM, Zoran Stojsavljevic
 wrote:
> Ron, I do agree, does not seem to be promising. It will add problems down
> the road, as requirements grow.
>
> Zoran
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 8:45 PM, ron minnich  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:45 AM Zoran Stojsavljevic
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ron, any (practical) example of above described practices? I have in my
>>> laptops here 6 x 4 GB DIMM modules and 2 x 8GB DIMM modules, all of them
>>> have SPD mounted.
>>
>>
>>
>> DIMMs are so great but so old school :-)
>>
>> on some systems, in flash, there are 4 and 8 element tables which are
>> indexed by GPIOs .You use the 2 or 3 bits from 2-3 GPIOs to index the table
>> and that's how you get your RAM programming. No SPD. You can see how much
>> room this leaves for problems.
>>
>> This is just one simple example.
>>
>> ron
>>
>
>

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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Zoran Stojsavljevic]

Ron, I do agree, does not seem to be promising. It will add problems down
the road, as requirements grow.

Zoran

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 8:45 PM, ron minnich  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:45 AM Zoran Stojsavljevic <
> zoran.stojsavlje...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Ron, any (practical) example of above described practices? I have in my
>> laptops here 6 x 4 GB DIMM modules and 2 x 8GB DIMM modules, all of them
>> have SPD mounted.
>>
>
>
> DIMMs are so great but so old school :-)
>
> on some systems, in flash, there are 4 and 8 element tables which are
> indexed by GPIOs .You use the 2 or 3 bits from 2-3 GPIOs to index the table
> and that's how you get your RAM programming. No SPD. You can see how much
> room this leaves for problems.
>
> This is just one simple example.
>
> ron
>
>
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[ron minnich]

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:45 AM Zoran Stojsavljevic <
zoran.stojsavlje...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Ron, any (practical) example of above described practices? I have in my
> laptops here 6 x 4 GB DIMM modules and 2 x 8GB DIMM modules, all of them
> have SPD mounted.
>


DIMMs are so great but so old school :-)

on some systems, in flash, there are 4 and 8 element tables which are
indexed by GPIOs .You use the 2 or 3 bits from 2-3 GPIOs to index the table
and that's how you get your RAM programming. No SPD. You can see how much
room this leaves for problems.

This is just one simple example.

ron
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Zoran Stojsavljevic]

> Given the way vendors swap parts around, it would not be surprising to
find settings such as GPIOs that control mainboard
> resources and DRAM timing in flash. There's lots of ways to save some
money nowadays (e.g. remove SPD) and vendors
> do what they can to save it all.

Ron, any (practical) example of above described practices? I have in my
laptops here 6 x 4 GB DIMM modules and 2 x 8GB DIMM modules, all of them
have SPD mounted.

> There are also flash chips with original T400 bios on sale - what about
this?

Just waiting for you, Michael, to try it. All the possibilities we
lamented here, you got/have several proposals to try practically, and I see
it as very good learning experience, and understand more. I offered you one
SW method to try, you have original T400 boards with original BIOSes, you
can even buy flash chip with original BIOS (and you can also try to combine
proposals, also experiment). Several possibilities, one full 10 hours' day
of hard work (maybe two days, if you take it easy).

And, Enrico (although email is signed as Florian ?!) also wrote an
excellent email, with some very good explanation how BIOS descriptors and
regions look alike in T420 (I bet, it could be very useful).

Being you, I would roll up sleeves and start working... Trying various
proposals practically/empirically!

My two cent opinion! Peace. ;-)

Best Regards,
Zoran
___

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 3:15 PM, ron minnich  wrote:

> Given the way vendors swap parts around, it would not be surprising to
> find settings such as GPIOs that control mainboard resources and DRAM
> timing in flash. There's lots of ways to save some money nowadays (e.g.
> remove SPD) and vendors do what they can to save it all.
>
> ron
>
> --
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> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[ron minnich]

Given the way vendors swap parts around, it would not be surprising to find
settings such as GPIOs that control mainboard resources and DRAM timing in
flash. There's lots of ways to save some money nowadays (e.g. remove SPD)
and vendors do what they can to save it all.

ron
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Peter Stuge]

Michal Widlok wrote:
> Peter: Is that really the case with old T400?

I don't have experience with T400, but on older models still it was
very much the case that the BIOS image had some information in it,
which was compared with the actual hardware at runtime, and in case
of mismatch the platform did not boot.

I always assumed that it's a handshake between BIOS and the AT24RF
EEPROM which includes some extra special functionality. On platforms
with ME it wouldn't surprise me too much if all that moved into the
ME, or even disappeared completely, but I *have* had the problem in
the past.

I didn't research exactly what information it is, or exactly what the
handshake is, I always worked around the problem by flashing the
backup.


//Peter

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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Michal Widlok]

Hello, just a few observations from me, since a have a few T400
motherboards (in various states):
Once, before having raspberry "programmer" I've just exchange flash
chips between 2 motherboards, by de-soldering and re-soldering them -
it worked. There are also flash chips with original T400 bios on sale
- what about this? Lenovo is known for problems with bios updates
(check: "T400/T500 slow boot after bios update" in google), so I
suppose these chips might be useful. The problem that comes to my mind
is MAC address that is stored in flash - we know how to change it with
coreboot, but I'm not sure if on original bios also. If the MAC is
stored in the same place in coreboot and bios then it would be
possible to change it.

Peter: Is that really the case with old T400? The MAC might be a
problem, but what else? Maybe there are some things that I'm aware
off, and while motherboard looks ok in reality it is not.

Since all methods are rather complicated (and I don't have original
bios anyway), maybe the easiest would be to read flash chip with
original bios (from any unused mainboard) then just flash it to the
"right one", then follow with normal windows bios update - what do You
think?
Michael Widlok

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[coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[enrico pallazzo]

Hi Michael,

If t400 stock bios structure is similar, you might try restoring it 
using this procedure:

http://thinkwiki.de/UEFI_BIOS_T420_BIOS_Structure
It worked for me to revert to stock bios from coreboot on a t420.
As you write only bios region, you don' t need the old backup of your 
chip. In fact, I flashed a version of the stock bios that was different 
from the one I had before coreboot.


Regards,
Florian

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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Arthur Heymans]

ron minnich  writes:
> We really need to start warning people when the flash a thinkpad that
> it is very important to save the old flash image.

It is somewhat thinkpad specific whether the bios extracted from the
update tool will work.
On X60 I have had no success with it.

On X200 it sort of works to flash the vendor bios extracted from update
.exe. You can even just flash bios region and leave ifd, gbe (and me)
alone. (Though I have had it not being able to boot and complain about
some pxe stuff)

Note: on x200 there exists a modified (whitelist removed) bios which
does not write protect its bootblock. With this it is possible to flash
the vendor bios without having to rely on an external programmer to
re-flash coreboot. 

Backup are essential!

-- 
Arthur Heymans

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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[ron minnich]

peter is not talking about CMOS. He's talking about saving  data in the
flash ROM that is tied to an individual motherboard. Those are very
different things.

Here's a simple example from older systems. They would save the ethernet
MAC in flash. When you did an upgrade, you had to use the existing flash as
input, else your MAC would be lost or appear as all zeros. You can imagine
how tricky this can be if the exist flash rom has, e.g., GPIO settings that
must be transferred to the new flash image before flashing.

Hence, just a raw factory image may not work.

We really need to start warning people when the flash a thinkpad that it is
very important to save the old flash image.

ron

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:52 AM Zoran Stojsavljevic <
zoran.stojsavlje...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I think that will be a problem. Lenovo BIOSes save some machine-specific
> > information in the flash ROM across updates, and I've so far not seen
> > a single Lenovo mainboard which does not require this information for
> > the vendor BIOS to work.
>
> Let say, you are right/correct, Peter. Then I need explanation for this
> text:
>
> http://www.howtogeek.com/131623/how-to-clear-your-computers-cmos-to-reset-bios-settings/
>
> *Reseat the CMOS Battery*
>
> *If your motherboard does not have a CLEAR CMOS jumper, you can often
> clear its CMOS settings by removing the CMOS battery and replacing it. The
> CMOS battery provides power used to save the BIOS settings – this is how
> your computer knows how much time has passed even when it’s been
> powered-off for a while – so removing the battery will remove the source of
> power and clear the settings.*
>
> *Important Note: Not all motherboards have removable CMOS batteries. If
> the battery won’t come loose, don’t force it.*
>
> *First, ensure the computer is powered off and you’re grounded so you
> won’t damage the motherboard with static electricity. Locate the round,
> flat, silver battery on the motherboard and carefully remove it. Wait five
> minutes before reseating the battery.*
>
> Since I am kind of *naive*, and do not understand what these people are
> talking about (you are opposing them, am I correct, or maybe not)?
>
> > It's a kind offer, but not useful in my experience, for the above reasons.
> All Lenovo BIOS updates require a Lenovo BIOS.
>
> Two questions/conclusions: did you ever try what I proposed here? If NOT,
> it is worth trying. If YES, total valid observation. Then DEDIPROG flash
> programmer or similar of kind is a must, unfortunately?!
>
> Zoran
>
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:53 PM, Peter Stuge  wrote:
>
> Michal Widlok wrote:
> > Ron - I've lost original bios, my mistake.
>
> I think that will be a problem. Lenovo BIOSes save some machine-specific
> information in the flash ROM across updates, and I've so far not seen
> a single Lenovo mainboard which does not require this information for
> the vendor BIOS to work.
>
>
> > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Zoran Stojsavljevic <
> zoran.stojsavlje...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I'll try to find the original BIOS for Michael
>
> It's a kind offer, but not useful in my experience, for the above
> reasons. All Lenovo BIOS updates I've seen so far require a Lenovo BIOS.
>
>
> //Peter
>
> --
> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
>
> --
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> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Zoran Stojsavljevic]

> I think that will be a problem. Lenovo BIOSes save some machine-specific
> information in the flash ROM across updates, and I've so far not seen
> a single Lenovo mainboard which does not require this information for
> the vendor BIOS to work.

Let say, you are right/correct, Peter. Then I need explanation for this
text:
http://www.howtogeek.com/131623/how-to-clear-your-computers-cmos-to-reset-bios-settings/

*Reseat the CMOS Battery*

*If your motherboard does not have a CLEAR CMOS jumper, you can often clear
its CMOS settings by removing the CMOS battery and replacing it. The CMOS
battery provides power used to save the BIOS settings – this is how your
computer knows how much time has passed even when it’s been powered-off for
a while – so removing the battery will remove the source of power and clear
the settings.*

*Important Note: Not all motherboards have removable CMOS batteries. If the
battery won’t come loose, don’t force it.*

*First, ensure the computer is powered off and you’re grounded so you won’t
damage the motherboard with static electricity. Locate the round, flat,
silver battery on the motherboard and carefully remove it. Wait five
minutes before reseating the battery.*

Since I am kind of *naive*, and do not understand what these people are
talking about (you are opposing them, am I correct, or maybe not)?

> It's a kind offer, but not useful in my experience, for the above reasons.
All Lenovo BIOS updates require a Lenovo BIOS.

Two questions/conclusions: did you ever try what I proposed here? If NOT,
it is worth trying. If YES, total valid observation. Then DEDIPROG flash
programmer or similar of kind is a must, unfortunately?!

Zoran

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:53 PM, Peter Stuge  wrote:

> Michal Widlok wrote:
> > Ron - I've lost original bios, my mistake.
>
> I think that will be a problem. Lenovo BIOSes save some machine-specific
> information in the flash ROM across updates, and I've so far not seen
> a single Lenovo mainboard which does not require this information for
> the vendor BIOS to work.
>
>
> > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Zoran Stojsavljevic <
> zoran.stojsavlje...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I'll try to find the original BIOS for Michael
>
> It's a kind offer, but not useful in my experience, for the above
> reasons. All Lenovo BIOS updates I've seen so far require a Lenovo BIOS.
>
>
> //Peter
>
> --
> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Peter Stuge]

Michal Widlok wrote:
> Ron - I've lost original bios, my mistake.

I think that will be a problem. Lenovo BIOSes save some machine-specific
information in the flash ROM across updates, and I've so far not seen
a single Lenovo mainboard which does not require this information for
the vendor BIOS to work.


> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Zoran Stojsavljevic 
>  wrote:
> > I'll try to find the original BIOS for Michael

It's a kind offer, but not useful in my experience, for the above
reasons. All Lenovo BIOS updates I've seen so far require a Lenovo BIOS.


//Peter

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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Zoran Stojsavljevic]

Hello Michael,

As promised (and I ALWAYS keep my promises):
Drivers for various WIN OSes:
http://www.driverscape.com/manufacturers/lenovo/laptops-desktops/
http://www.driverscape.com/manufacturers/lenovo/laptops-desktops/27672mg/36158

BIOS upgrade for WIN7:
http://support.lenovo.com/de/en/products/Laptops-and-netbooks/ThinkPad-T-Series-laptops/ThinkPad-T400?tabName=Downloads=Mast:SubNav:Support:Drivers%20and%20Software|Drivers%20and%20Software=false

As my understanding is, you should put some blank HDD, install using
Coreboot with SeaBIOS payload (*emulating legacy BIOS*) WIN7 (32 or 64),
and then download .iso with latest BIOS update/upgrade for T400 here, then
make* legacy USB .iso bootable CD/DVD or USB*:
http://support.lenovo.com/de/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-t-series-laptops/thinkpad-t400/downloads/DS014937

Please, report back here the results!

Thank you,
Zoran

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Michal Widlok <michalwd1...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thank You for quick reply.
> Ron - I've lost original bios, my mistake. I hoped nobody would ask
> and spare me saying "I'm a moron" :-).
> Zoran - This is TYPE 2767-2MG S/N R80DCTZ6 09/09. The one with
> "switchable graphics" (Intel and Ati) onboard. Is any more info
> required? Anyway since lenovo provides single update for every T400
> model then it might not matter - or I am very wrong.
>
> Michael Widlok
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Zoran Stojsavljevic
> <zoran.stojsavlje...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello Ron,
> >
> > No worries. I'll try to find the original BIOS for Michael, if Michael
> gives
> > me exact model of Lenovo T400.
> >
> > Don't you agree? ;-)
> >
> > Zoran
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:41 PM, ron minnich <rminn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> did you save the bios before you flashed it?
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:11 AM Michal Widlok <michalwd1...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> Is it possible to flash back original BIOS from coreboot system on
> >>> lenovo T400? I would like to play with tp_smapi module (battery checks
> >>> at most). My board is already equipped with a connector from FLASH
> >>> chip to Raspberry pi, so it can be hardware or software method.
> >>>
> >>> I've red about bios update from bootable CD or USB stick - will this
> >>> method work with coreboot?
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>> Michael Widlok
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> >>> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> >> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
> >
> >
>
> --
> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Michal Widlok]

Thank You for quick reply.
Ron - I've lost original bios, my mistake. I hoped nobody would ask
and spare me saying "I'm a moron" :-).
Zoran - This is TYPE 2767-2MG S/N R80DCTZ6 09/09. The one with
"switchable graphics" (Intel and Ati) onboard. Is any more info
required? Anyway since lenovo provides single update for every T400
model then it might not matter - or I am very wrong.

Michael Widlok

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Zoran Stojsavljevic
<zoran.stojsavlje...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Ron,
>
> No worries. I'll try to find the original BIOS for Michael, if Michael gives
> me exact model of Lenovo T400.
>
> Don't you agree? ;-)
>
> Zoran
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:41 PM, ron minnich <rminn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> did you save the bios before you flashed it?
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:11 AM Michal Widlok <michalwd1...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Is it possible to flash back original BIOS from coreboot system on
>>> lenovo T400? I would like to play with tp_smapi module (battery checks
>>> at most). My board is already equipped with a connector from FLASH
>>> chip to Raspberry pi, so it can be hardware or software method.
>>>
>>> I've red about bios update from bootable CD or USB stick - will this
>>> method work with coreboot?
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Michael Widlok
>>>
>>> --
>>> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
>>> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>>
>>
>> --
>> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
>> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
>

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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Zoran Stojsavljevic]

Hello Ron,

No worries. I'll try to find the original BIOS for Michael, if Michael
gives me exact model of Lenovo T400.

Don't you agree? ;-)

Zoran

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:41 PM, ron minnich <rminn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> did you save the bios before you flashed it?
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:11 AM Michal Widlok <michalwd1...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Is it possible to flash back original BIOS from coreboot system on
>> lenovo T400? I would like to play with tp_smapi module (battery checks
>> at most). My board is already equipped with a connector from FLASH
>> chip to Raspberry pi, so it can be hardware or software method.
>>
>> I've red about bios update from bootable CD or USB stick - will this
>> method work with coreboot?
>> Best Regards,
>> Michael Widlok
>>
>> --
>> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
>> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>>
>
> --
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> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
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Re: [coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[ron minnich]

did you save the bios before you flashed it?

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:11 AM Michal Widlok <michalwd1...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Is it possible to flash back original BIOS from coreboot system on
> lenovo T400? I would like to play with tp_smapi module (battery checks
> at most). My board is already equipped with a connector from FLASH
> chip to Raspberry pi, so it can be hardware or software method.
>
> I've red about bios update from bootable CD or USB stick - will this
> method work with coreboot?
> Best Regards,
> Michael Widlok
>
> --
> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
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[coreboot] Back to original BIOS

[Michal Widlok]

Hello,

Is it possible to flash back original BIOS from coreboot system on
lenovo T400? I would like to play with tp_smapi module (battery checks
at most). My board is already equipped with a connector from FLASH
chip to Raspberry pi, so it can be hardware or software method.

I've red about bios update from bootable CD or USB stick - will this
method work with coreboot?
Best Regards,
Michael Widlok

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