That is not only interesting but a gorgeous evocation of the time and place. Thanks!
Katie Green > On Jan 14, 2019, at 11:30 PM, Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList > <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > For those of you who are trying to write and capture the sounds and feel of > the Irish you may want to know about their love of their cattle. The first > book ever written was the book of the Brown Cow. The cow was the difference > between life and death for many families. The Ulster Scots women usually > milked the cows while the men worked in the fields or in the bush cutting > staves (square timbers). When the Scotch Irish families settled Canada they > already had a pattern for work but English women of better breeding had been > taught that milking cattle was below them or men's work. It was the Scottish > Irish women who taught the English women to milk and mind the cattle > (Roughing in the bush by Catharine Partrel) and saved them and their families > from starvation. In the morning before the sun had dispatched the darkness I > would wake to hear my mom's voice from the cowbar calling the cows. Many > families had their own call or sometimes communities shared a call but all > the cattle knew the sound of their mistress voice. For a young boy the calls > where a strange haunting beautiful sound in the grey/darkness between sleep > and dream . I don't have enough music in me to try and set it down for you > but if you google," Kulning ancient herd calling," you will hear young > Swedish women who still pass the calls down through their families. It is > beautiful to see the cattle coming to the calls into the yard. In the > blackness of morning you first see movement in the darkness then the head of > the lead mammoth appears followed by shoulders and a body lumbering towards > the mistress voice then two more and then more, finally the whole heard > appears, if you are lucky. These calls have come down generation after > generation of women farther back then we can trace our genealogy. The sound > carries for a mile or more much farther then a normal human call would > carry. Hope that is of interest. > Cheers > > Ron McCoy > Cheers > > Ron McCoy > On 2019-01-14 6:55 p.m., Beverley Ballantine via CoTyroneList wrote: >> Many, many thanks to all for the good discussion re the accent that Ulster >> Scots Tyronians probably carried to U.S. I am working on a family history >> that began in Parish Desertcreat, Townland Gortavilly and moved to western >> Kentucky in 1839/1840 through 1849. I use dialect writing for the enslaved >> African Americans and want to do the same for the family of Henry and Mary >> Ballantine whose son John, the stonecutter, was the first to arrive in >> America. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jan 14, 2019, at 5:46 PM, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList >> <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> >> wrote: >> >>> I don’t have any contemporary descriptions of Scots-Irish accents in Tyrone >>> in the 1800s but I do have some from Antrim which suggest that at that >>> period, the Ulster Scots spoke with a clear Scottish accent. (Today it has >>> modified a bit though it remains quite different from the rest of >>> Ireland). I think Tyrone may have been pretty much the same as Antrim. I >>> have included some other observations on Scottish influence in Ireland, for >>> entertainment. >>> >>> A Presbyterian Minister brought up in Aghadowey, Co Derry wrote this of his >>> childhood in the 1820s: “Aghadowey had originally been settled by a Scotch >>> immigration and I found that my new neighbours spoke as pure Scotch as a >>> man might hear in any part of Ayrshire.”[1] >>> <https://mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.src=ym&reason=myc&soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#_ftn1> >>> >>> Describing his youth in Ballycahan, parish of Dunboe, again not too far >>> from Drumachose a local farmer said: “Over a space of 15 to 20 miles from >>> east to west, and about the same from north to south, Scottish surnames, a >>> broad Scottish dialect and an almost universally diffused Presbyterianism >>> indicated the title of the people to call themselves “Scotch”. >>> Episcopalians were few and a Roman Catholic as rare as a black swan.”[2] >>> <https://mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.src=ym&reason=myc&soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#_ftn2> >>> >>> Here’s what another source says about Scottish influence in Ireland: >>> >>> “What has been the contribution of Scottish immigrants to Ireland? Like >>> other peoples, the Ulster Scots have a somewhat self-admiring historical >>> myth about their contribution to Irish life. There were echoes of it in the >>> words I have quoted from J. J. Shaw but it was enunciated resonantly by the >>> Reverend Henry Cooke, one of its most eloquent exponents, addressing the >>> General Assembly of the Church of Scotland in 1836: >>> >>> “ Our Scottish forefathers were planted in the most barren portions of our >>> lands - the most rude and lawless of the provinces - Scottish industry has >>> drained its bogs and cultivated its barren wastes; substituted towns and >>> cities for its hovels and clachans and given peace and good order to a land >>> of confusion and blood.” >>> >>> Like most such myths it contains elements of truth, as does the alternative >>> Irish nationalist myth which portrays the Scots as greedy robbers of the >>> best Irish land. Scots immigrants have stamped their personality upon much >>> of Ulster and have penetrated to all parts of Ireland. Scottish influence >>> is still audible in some Ulster dialects and a vocabulary loaded with words >>> like 'skunner', 'gunk', 'sleekit' and 'girn'. Scottish industry has brought >>> prosperity to parts of Ulster but not to its bogs and barren wastes. The >>> Scots did not introduce any revolutionary agricultural methods or >>> implements though their two-eared Scotch spade gave the Irish the >>> expression 'digging with the wrong foot'. Later came Scotch carts, ploughs >>> and threshing machines. When the north-east of Ireland was relatively >>> prosperous there were those who attributed that prosperity, and the success >>> of the industries which provided it, to the Calvinism and special talents >>> of the descendants of Scots settlers. Less is heard of such ideas in a >>> period of economic decline. Geography and the emergence of entrepreneurs of >>> genius like Harland and Wolff neither of them Ulster Scots - had more to do >>> with nineteenth-century industrial success than religion or race. Yet, as a >>> modern Scottish historian has observed, 'it is impossible not to suspect >>> that Calvinist seriousness of purpose had some effect on both intellectual >>> and economic life'. >>> >>> As well as good farmers and businessmen the Ulster Scots have produced good >>> doctors, teachers, preachers and engineers. If they have produced little >>> great literature, their eighteenth-century vernacular poets can stand >>> comparison with Burns himself. Perhaps inevitably, their best writers and >>> scholars, like Helen Waddell and Lord Kelvin, have found fame outside >>> Ireland. Their good grammar schools and Belfast's university, which, in its >>> early days, owed much to Scottish models, reflect their respect for >>> education. They have built neat, functional homes but few fine buildings, >>> though John Wesley described the meeting-house of Belfast's First >>> Presbyterian congregation as 'the completest place of public worship I have >>> ever seen'. >>> >>> Commonly caricatured as a gloomy and silent bigot, the Ulster Scot is >>> recognised by those who know him well as a loyal friend with a mordant >>> sense of humour, critical of human pretensions and self-importance. He has >>> not, as Henry Cooke claimed, 'brought peace and good order to a land of >>> confusion and blood'; instead he has contributed his share to disharmony >>> and conflict in Ireland, if only because he cannot compromise what he >>> believes to be sacred principle, which others may see as self-interest. It >>> may be significant that when, earlier this century, he sought a symbol with >>> which to focus and express his opposition to Irish Home Rule, he found it >>> in the great Scottish Covenants of the seventeenth century, originally >>> devised to safeguard the purity of the Reformation in Scotland and in the >>> British Isles. History and geography have combined to make Ulster as much a >>> Scottish as an Irish province.[3] >>> <https://mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.src=ym&reason=myc&soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#_ftn3> >>> >>> I came across this wee poem recently in Ballymena library, which probably >>> sets out Scots-Irish ancestors feelings about their own identity and >>> culture quite well. It was written in the 1800s by Samuel Thomson, a weaver >>> poet who lived near Ballymena. “To Captain MacDougall at Castle Upton.*” >>> >>> I love my native land no doubt >>> Attached to her thro’ thick and thin >>> But tho’ I’m Irish all without >>> I’m every item Scotch within. >>> >>> Thomson was one of a group of weaver poets, mostly self employed men who >>> worked from home. They had strong connections with SW Scotland where their >>> ancestors had mostly lived. Thomson was heavily influenced by Robert Burns, >>> the master poet-ploughman, whom he met in Scotland at least once, and wrote >>> in his vernacular style. He also composed a poem entitled “To a hedgehog” >>> which was a reference to a military tactic employed at the Battle of Antrim >>> in 1798 (a hedgehog being a formation of men) but anyone familiar with >>> Burns work will immediately recognize the allusions to his poems “To a >>> mouse” and “To a louse.” >>> >>> >>> * Castle Upton is a partially fortified house in Templepatrick. Built in >>> 1611, I assume it was originally a Plantation Bawn. >>> >>> >>> >>> Elwyn >>> [1] >>> <https://mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.src=ym&reason=myc&soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#_ftnref1> >>> Autobiography of Thomas Witherow 1824 – 1890 Page 25. Ballinascreen >>> Historical Society 1990 >>> [2] >>> <https://mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.src=ym&reason=myc&soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#_ftnref2> >>> A Kennedy chronicle – Biography of Alexander Kennedy of Ballycahan 1818 – >>> 1885 by Hugh Alexander Hezlett (Coleraine library) >>> [3] >>> <https://mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.src=ym&reason=myc&soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#_ftnref3> >>> From the Appletree Press title: The People of Ireland (currently out of >>> print). >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com >>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> >>> To: "cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com >>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>" >>> <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com >>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> >>> Cc: Ron McCoy <ron.mc...@outlook.com <mailto:ron.mc...@outlook.com>> >>> Sent: Monday, 14 January 2019, 20:48 >>> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony >>> >>> Hi Beverly >>> When I worked in Scotland in 1974 I took a couple of trips to Northern >>> Ireland. When I went there the voices and accents I heard sounded very much >>> like the old people I grew up with from around the Ottawa Valley Canada >>> though they where four generations removed. The longer I was there the >>> easier it was for me to slip into the way of speaking they had. People from >>> Northern Ireland who just met me would place my home some where around >>> Ballymoney. Today television and people making fun of anyone who is suppose >>> to have an Irish accent has pretty much muted the lilt and phraseology of >>> the Northern Irish in Canada and I suspect it has dampened it as well in >>> native Ireland. I believe the voices would have been a mingling of the old >>> Scottish language who came with the Undertakers to Ulster. So the language >>> would not have been the same as later 1800 Scottish, first because it was >>> from an earlier age and it was separated by the Channel. Also it would very >>> likely be co-mingled with Irish inhabitants who lived there as well. >>> Together I suspect they had their own slang, phrases, stories and language >>> short cuts used consistently by them but not the English or Scottish. The >>> language would be a kind of Founders language. We hear that in Quebec today >>> with people from some regions who still speak very old form of French. >>> That would be my guess. >>> Cheers >>> Ron McCoy >>> On 2019-01-14 2:45 p.m., Beverley Ballantine via CoTyroneList wrote: >>>> Are these sayings, and lilting voices, of native Gaelic origin? Or are >>>> they Scottish? I would like to know how a mid 19th century Tyrone >>>> Scots-Irish person sounded like when first in America. Thank you and >>>> great transcription work. >>>> Beverley Ballantine >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Jan 14, 2019, at 10:11 AM, Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList >>>> <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com >>>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Love that "Paper never refuses ink …" Very applicable today with >>>>> revision: "The internet never refuses a keystroke …" >>>>> >>>>> Rick Smoll >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com >>>>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> >>>>> To: Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com >>>>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> >>>>> Cc: Ron McCoy <ron.mc...@outlook.com <mailto:ron.mc...@outlook.com>> >>>>> Sent: Mon, Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am >>>>> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony >>>>> >>>>> My mom and dad used folk expressions liberally, my mom being more guilty >>>>> then my dad but by far the greatest offender was my neighbour who was a >>>>> wealth of folk expressions. She is now gone and sadly her expressions >>>>> have not been recorded but I am sure would have filled volumes. These I >>>>> believe were handed down generation after generation. One of my favorites >>>>> was used to deflate my budding but inflated educational ego. I would be >>>>> explaining to her some great scientific break through I had just learned >>>>> at school and she would look at me with kind but skeptical eyes and say, >>>>> " how do you know that." and I would say I read it in a text book to >>>>> which she would simply reply, " Ah well, Paper never refuses ink. Now >>>>> does it?" On the same vein my father would simply say to me ," Do you >>>>> know that for a fact Mr. McCoy or did some one just tell you that?" When >>>>> it was said with that deep and melodic Ottawa Valley accent which was in >>>>> reality a Northern Ireland lilt one could not be truly offended. I heard >>>>> these expressions and so many more oft repeated as a child and a young >>>>> person growing up and sadly I took them for granted but wished in my >>>>> heart I could hear them all again. They bring back great memories of kind >>>>> and wise people, I miss them deeply... >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Ron McCoy >>>>> On 2019-01-13 10:33 p.m., Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList wrote: >>>>>> Hi Listers, >>>>>> As a kid in Belfast, I was intrigued by so many Irish place names >>>>>> starting in Bally... Those who know tell me it's derived from the Gaelic >>>>>> 'Baile na', meaning 'place of'. My mother would recite with a smile, the >>>>>> popular ditty of the time: >>>>>> If you weren't so Ballymena with your old Ballymoney, I'd buy a >>>>>> Ballycastle for my own Ballyholme. >>>>>> My mother was one for such sayings, so much so you'd be forgiven if you >>>>>> thought she'd kissed the Blarney, but I doubt she was ever that far >>>>>> south. >>>>>> There must be lots of these folk expressions which have fallen into >>>>>> disuse and now sadly lost. >>>>>> Gordon >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _________________________________ >>>>>> Nereda & Gordon Wilkinson, Hyde Park, South Australia. >>>>>> Web: www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon <http://www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon> >>>>>> Skype id: neredon >>>>>> Emails: gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au >>>>>> <mailto:gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au> >>>>>> nereda.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au <mailto:nereda.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> CoTyroneList mailing list >>>>>> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com >>>>>> <mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> >>>>>> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>>> <http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/> >>>>>> (_internal_name)s >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> CoTyroneList mailing list >>>>> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com <mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> >>>>> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>> <http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/> >>>>> (_internal_name)s >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> CoTyroneList mailing list >>>>> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com <mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> >>>>> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>> <http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/> >>>>> (_internal_name)s >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CoTyroneList mailing list >>>> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com <mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> >>>> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ >>>> <http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/> >>>> (_internal_name)s >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CoTyroneList mailing list >>> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com <mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> >>> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ >>> <http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/> >>> (_internal_name)s >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CoTyroneList mailing list >>> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com <mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> >>> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ >>> <http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/> >>> (_internal_name)s >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CoTyroneList mailing list >> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com <mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> >> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ >> <http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/> >> (_internal_name)s > _______________________________________________ > CoTyroneList mailing list > CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ > (_internal_name)s
_______________________________________________ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s
