Thank you for that information it was very informative and helpful. Dorrien Realty Nancy Dorrien Broker 00974079 ndorr...@mlode.com 408-209-2444
> On Jun 21, 2019, at 9:03 AM, Jacque via CoTyroneList > <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > > Great information, and very interesting. > > Thank you for posting it, Elwyn. > > Jacque > On Friday, June 21, 2019, 11:24:12 a.m. EDT, elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList > <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > > Ron, > > Ireland has always been a largely agricultural county. Land was the > biggest source of employment in the 1830s and it still is today. The > country has almost no natural resources eg coal, iron ore, valuable > minerals, oil etc and save for linen mills and ship building in > Belfast, the industrial revolution largely passed it by. And that was > one of the many factors that led to mass emigration from Ireland in > the 1800s. There had been a population explosion (up from 3 million in > 1741 to 8 million in 1841) and there were no jobs for most of those > people. And that’s before we consider the impact of the famine, > insecure tenure and lack of spare land. So whilst farming may be a > lowly occupation elsewhere, it was up near the top of the chain in > Ireland. Of course the size of the farm mattered too. There were a > lot of subsistence level cottiers and small farmers, with a few acres, > but there were some quite wealthy farmers too. If you go to the Ulster > American Folk Park near Omagh you can see various categories of farm. > The Campbell Household’s farm (originally near Plumbridge but now in > the Park) was a very wealthy farm, and they had hundreds of acres: > > https://www.nmni.com/our-museums/ulster-american-folk-park/Things-to-see/Campbell-House.aspx > > Then you had smaller ones like the Mellon farm (of the Mellon Bank > family). They had 23 acres: > > https://www.nmni.com/our-museums/ulster-american-folk-park/Things-to-see/Mellon-Homestead.aspx > > And there were much poorer ones than that. > > But most farmers were much better off than the average > labourer/weaver, especially in many of the Ulster Counties where a lot > of the land was better than in many other parts of Ireland, and you > could get a tolerable living from a surprisingly small piece of land. > > Farmers in Ireland were usually above labourers and servants in the > social class. Indeed they usually employed them. If you look at the > average farm on Griffiths Valuation, you’ll see that many had anywhere > between 1 and sometimes as many as 10 labourers cottages scattered > around the farm. The farm and farmhouse is usually shown as plot a, > and the cottages are b, c, d etc, with the farmer as landlord. Those > labourers normally rented from the immediate farmer (and not from his > landlord) and either paid their rent in cash or by an agreed number of > days work a year on the farm, or sometimes a mix of the two. Have a > look at the 1831 census for Co. Londonderry and you’ll also see how > many servants there were, and that gives you an idea of how many farms > had servants. > > It’s difficult to quantify how wealthy farmers were in simple money > terms because a lot was a barter economy. There were some things money > was needed for eg a ticket to America but a major part ran on barter. > So there may not have been much money in many a farmer’s bank but if > he had a 3 lives lease and a few cows and 25 acres of barley, hay, > flax and spuds he would have been pretty well off by the standards of > the time. The labourer with 2 or 3 perches of land, whose only cash > income was from a little winter home weaving, was right down the > bottom of the social order. A hand to mouth existence at times. > > During the famine years it was the labourers who starved. Many farmers > were quite well off. Indeed prices for barley and wheat rose during > the famine years. Few farmers in Ulster suffered starvation then. > Their potatoes were blighted but they had other resources to fall back > on. The labourers only had a few perches and you can grow more spuds > per acre than any other crop. Plus they are low maintenance. So they > were ideal for a labourer with little land and a large family. Till > the blight came of course and then they were crippled. It wasn't quite > so bad in Ulster because many labourers had linen weaving money to > fall back on. That's a reason why the impact of the famine was a > little less in Ulster than in the rest of Ireland. (I don't have stats > for Tyrone but according to Bill McAfee's website, in Ireland as a > whole the population dropped by 20% between 1841 and 1851 but in Co. > Antrim it only went down by 2%. I think for Ulster it was about a 5 or > 7%% drop.I forget the exact number). > > If farming was well up the social order, you might wonder why farmers > emigrated. I have touched on lack of security of tenure, and some were > evicted (usually for non payment of rent), but a big driver was the > normal practice of leaving the farm to the eldest son. Farms were > sometimes subdivided, and some farmers managed to acquire two or more > farms, which enabled them to leave a farm to more than one son, but in > general the eldest son got the farm and the rest of the sons had to > find their own way in the world. So they may have been farmers in > Ireland but they didn’t have a farm of their own nor one to inherit > and so migrated. And of course in both the US and Canada it was often > possible to buy land outright or even acquire it for little cost with > various land grant systems. So they were attractive pull factors for > Irish farmers. > > I don’t know if this is what you wanted to know. Let me know if you > have any other questions. > > > > Elwyn > > > On 21/06/2019, Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList > <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > HI Elwyn > > > > In your response you say ," Only wealthier folk such > > > > as farmers and merchants could afford a gravestone." In our modern world > > Farmers are not considered wealthy people in North America they are down the > > cast system pretty far. Some of my family records in Tyrone or upon coming > > to Canada they list themselves as being Farmers as opposed to Labourers or > > servants or renters etc..like most of the other settlers here. Does them > > listing themselves as Farmers mean something more then we take from it > > today? Does it mean money or position in the 1830"s? Can you elaborate on > > that for me if it does what would that entail for them and their families? > > Cheers > > Ron McCoy > > > > On 2019-06-21 8:33 a.m., elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wrote: > >> Darlene, > >> > >> You can use the Griffiths Valuation site to see where the surname > >> Adams was found in Co Tyrone in 1860. There are 144 listed, right > >> across the county. There were 223 Adams in the county in the 1901 > >> census. > >> > >> But the problem you really face is that hardly any parishes in Tyrone > >> have any records for the mid 1700s and so even if you knew exactly > >> where Thomas was born, there probably isn’t a documentary record of > >> it. > >> > >> With regard to burials, it very much depends on what their trade was > >> and again what denomination. Only the Church of Ireland routinely kept > >> burial records, so if your ancestors were another denomination it’s > >> unlikely that there will be any church records of their burials > >> (assuming records exist in the first place). Only wealthier folk such > >> as farmers and merchants could afford a gravestone, and the vast > >> majority of people were buried without one. So it’s important to try > >> and establish what their occupation was to assess the likelihood of > >> there being a gravestone to find. > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > CoTyroneList Mailing List > > Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > > Change Your Preferences: > > http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com > > Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CoTyroneList Mailing List > Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > Change Your Preferences: > http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com > Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY > _______________________________________________ > CoTyroneList Mailing List > Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > Change Your Preferences: > http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com > Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
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