Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-09-21 Thread geoff
Please take a look at Sorig's Divine Shock spell.  It is so OP that
going from level 20 to level 30 is almost trivial.

On Thu, 2017-09-21 at 01:28 -0500, Rick Tanner wrote:
> I've created and added content to a new wiki page in regards to the
> Spell_shuffle archetype code base.
> 
> Please correct and update as needed.
> 
> http://wiki.cross-fire.org/dokuwiki/doku.php/spell_shuffle
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-09-21 Thread Rick Tanner

I've created and added content to a new wiki page in regards to the
Spell_shuffle archetype code base.

Please correct and update as needed.

http://wiki.cross-fire.org/dokuwiki/doku.php/spell_shuffle



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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-09-15 Thread David Hurst
I have created a branch in arch called "Spell_shuffle"
(arch/branches/Spell_shuffle) and made changes as discussed here.
My server (ajh.co) is running from this branch.

I have updated the tableau view to reflect this branch here:
https://public.tableau.com/profile/david.hurst6129#!/vizhome/CrossfireSpellsVisualisation/Spellassignmentdashboard?publish=yes

The revised schools like something (I haven't learn all spells yet on this
char) like this
evocation spells  
02:24 animate weapon   7  41
02:24 antimagic rune   7   5
02:24 bullet swarm14   6
02:24 charisma 6  12
02:24 confusion2  10
02:24 constitution 4  15
02:24 create food 12  14
02:24 create missile   1  11
02:24 dark vision  5  15
02:24 detect magic 1   1
02:24 dimension door  10  35
02:24 identify 8  60
02:24 improved invisibility8  46
02:24 invisible6  30
02:24 large bullet 8   3
02:24 levitate 6  10
02:24 magic bullet 4   1
02:24 magic mapping5  15
02:24 magic missile1   1
02:24 magic rune  12   5
02:24 marking rune 1   1
02:24 missile swarm   14   6
02:24 poison cloud 4  12
02:24 probe1   3
02:24 rune of transference 6  18
02:24 spark shower 1   7
02:24 steambolt   10  12
02:24 strength 2  10
02:24 town portal 15  50
02:24 transference 5  17
02:24
praying spells
02:24 banishment den den
02:24 bless4  27
02:24 call holy servant   12 104
02:24 cause anthrax   24 182
02:24 cause black death   30 401
02:24 cause cold   2  47
02:24 cause flu4  46
02:24 cause leprosy   10  86
02:24 cause light wounds   1  54
02:24 cause many wounds   24  30
02:24 cause medium wounds  6  31
02:24 cause red death 24 541
02:24 cause typhoid   16 212
02:24 command undead  10  44
02:24 consecrate   8  35
02:24 cure blindness  18  30
02:24 cure confusion  14   8
02:24 cure disease10  30
02:24 cure poison  8   7
02:24 curse4  27
02:24 darkness10  58
02:24 detect curse10  10
02:24 detect evil  6   3
02:24 face of death   34 223
02:24 finger of death 28 119
02:24 glyph   12   5
02:24 heal30  50
02:24 holy orb   den den
02:24 holy possession 18  89
02:24 holy word  den den
02:24 holy wrath den den
02:24 light1  22
02:24 major healing   16  10
02:24 medium healing   8   7
02:24 minor healing1   4
02:24 nightfall   32 150
02:24 pacify   8  37
02:24 protection from attack  16 153
02:24 protection from cancellation  12  96
02:24 protection from cold 2  52
02:24 protection from confusion   4  68
02:24 protection from depletion   6  67
02:24 protection from draining   8  82
02:24 protection from electricity   3  51
02:24 protection from fire 2  70
02:24 protection from magic   10  97
02:24 protection from paralysis   6  67
02:24 protection from poison   2  70
02:24 protection from slow 4  68
02:24 regeneration14  62
02:24 remove curse16 242
02:24 restoration 32  80
02:24 show invisible  14  10
02:24 staff to snake   6  39
02:24 summon avatar   20 142
02:24 summon cult monsters 6  44
02:24 turn undeadden den
02:24 word of recall  20 153
02:24
pyromancy spells  
02:24 ball lightning  18  12
02:24 burning hands1  11
02:24 comet   16  20
02:24 create bomb 12   9
02:24 create fire wall12   8
02:24 dragonbreath24  14
02:24 faery fire   8  22
02:24 firebolt 4  15
02:24 firetrap12   5
02:24 medium fireball  6  18
02:24 rune of blasting10  14
02:24 rune of fire 4  10
02:24 rune of shocking 8  11
02:24 small fireball   1  12
02:24 small lightning  1   9
02:24
sorcery spells
02:24 armour   1  15
02:24 cancellation20  30
02:24 create frost wall   16   8
02:24 create pool of chaos20  10
02:24 detect monster   4   2
02:24 earth to dust4   7
02:24 fear 4   8
02:24 frostbolt6  11
02:24 icestorm 1   6
02:24 large manaball  12  35
02:24 magic drain 12  23
02:24 mana blast   4  14
02:24 mana bolt6  23
02:24 mass confusion   7  26
02:24 medium manaball  8   7
02:24 medium snowstorm 6  11
02:24 

Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-09-14 Thread David Hurst
Hi Kevin,

Aside from flipping sorcery and evocation, the spells that needed
reassigning were bullets,a couple of odd ball summoning spells and ball
lightning:

Level Spell Current Manual
1 Create Missile Summoning Evocation
1 Small Bullet Evocation Evocation
2 Summon Fog Summoning Evocation
8 Large Bullet Evocation Evocation
14 Bullet Swarm Evocation Evocation
18 Ball Lightning Evocation Pyromancy
20 Bullet Storm Evocation Evocation
24 Build Bullet Wall Evocation Evocation
**note evocation is a change because all other evocation spells are moved
to sorcery and vice versa.*

In the current assignment, evocation has the most damaging spells while
sorcery has the least. If you toggle between the current and proposed, you
will notice that the lines actually track much closer together in the
proposed assignment.This is going to make training in each school more
consistent.

Regards,
Saru






On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 4:14 AM, Kevin Zheng  wrote:

> On 09/14/2017 06:03, David Hurst wrote:
> > To try and make some progress on this front I created a visualisation to
> > see what these changes might look like. Take a look here
> >  CrossfireSpellsVisualisation/Spellassignmentdashboard?publish=yes>.
> > I focused on only the spells that can provide exp, I can load the other
> > skills if there is a strong desire to see the impact. As mentioned I
> > don't think there is a particularly significant effect by using
> > consistent spell schools definitions but i'm open to your feedback.
> > The data i'm using is available here
> >  J4TkYzUe_5IpKg/edit?usp=sharing>.
> >
> > As a reminder the proposed schools are:
> > Evocation - Spells that create things (physical damage, food,
> strengthening)
> > Sorcery - Spells that remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?,
> > depletion?)
> > Pyromancy - Spells that add energy (fire, lightning, light)
> > Summoning - Spells that call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
> > Praying - Spells gifted by channeling your gods wishes through prayer
>
> I believe this discussion came up on IRC, but how do you see training
> experience in the new spell organization to work?
>
> The current classifications are a bit arbitrary but it seems that each
> spell school has a good balance of spells.
>
> --
> Kevin Zheng
> kevinz5...@gmail.com | kev...@berkeley.edu | PGP: 0xC22E1090
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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-09-14 Thread Kevin Zheng
On 09/14/2017 06:03, David Hurst wrote:
> To try and make some progress on this front I created a visualisation to
> see what these changes might look like. Take a look here
> .
> I focused on only the spells that can provide exp, I can load the other
> skills if there is a strong desire to see the impact. As mentioned I
> don't think there is a particularly significant effect by using
> consistent spell schools definitions but i'm open to your feedback.
> The data i'm using is available here
> .
> 
> As a reminder the proposed schools are:
> Evocation - Spells that create things (physical damage, food, strengthening)
> Sorcery - Spells that remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?,
> depletion?)
> Pyromancy - Spells that add energy (fire, lightning, light)
> Summoning - Spells that call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
> Praying - Spells gifted by channeling your gods wishes through prayer

I believe this discussion came up on IRC, but how do you see training
experience in the new spell organization to work?

The current classifications are a bit arbitrary but it seems that each
spell school has a good balance of spells.

-- 
Kevin Zheng
kevinz5...@gmail.com | kev...@berkeley.edu | PGP: 0xC22E1090
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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-09-14 Thread David Hurst
To try and make some progress on this front I created a visualisation to
see what these changes might look like. Take a look here

.
I focused on only the spells that can provide exp, I can load the other
skills if there is a strong desire to see the impact. As mentioned I don't
think there is a particularly significant effect by using consistent spell
schools definitions but i'm open to your feedback.
The data i'm using is available here

.

As a reminder the proposed schools are:
Evocation - Spells that create things (physical damage, food, strengthening)
Sorcery - Spells that remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?,
depletion?)
Pyromancy - Spells that add energy (fire, lightning, light)
Summoning - Spells that call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
Praying - Spells gifted by channeling your gods wishes through prayer

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Mark Wedel  wrote:

> On 08/21/2017 05:49 PM, David Hurst wrote:
>
>> As stated, i'm trying to enhance the messages that players receive when
>> learning spells. To make this more engaging I wanted to have a clear
>> picture of what we all think these spellcasting skills represent. As a
>> starting point I presented this list as a definition of what is *currently
>> *in place:
>>
>> Evocation - Spells
>> that remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?, depletion?)
>> Sorcery - Spells
>> that create things (physical damage, food, strengthening)
>> Pyromancy - Spells
>> that add energy (fire, lightning, light)
>> Summoning - Spells
>> that call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
>> Praying - Spells
>> gifted by channeling your gods wishes through prayer
>>
>> You can check the above links to see what spells are currently available
>> for each skill. I don't think the spells that are in the wrong place are
>> not even remotely going to cause balance issues. Large bullet moving to
>> sorcery is not going to break evocation which currently has all of the cold
>> spells to level with including icestorm at level 1. Ball lightning moving
>> to pyromancy isn't going to wreck evocation.
>>
>> Having said that, I had this thought as I was writing the text for
>> evocation and it dawned on me that I have no idea what evocation actually
>> is. Ruben pointed out (and I agree with him) that the current spells don't
>> line up very well with historical definitions of evocation <
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evocation>and sorcery <
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorcery>. As far as I can tell it would be
>> straightforward to flip all the spells in the two skills over so that we
>> have:
>>
>> Evocation - Spells that create things (physical damage, food,
>> strengthening)
>> Sorcery - Spells that remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?,
>> depletion?)
>> Pyromancy - Spells that add energy (fire, lightning, light)
>> Summoning - Spells that call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
>> Praying - Spells gifted by channeling your gods wishes through prayer
>>
>
>  The definitions can be hard to map, because in dungeons of dragons,
> things like fireball, lightning bolt, and almost all damage spells are in
> the 'evocation' school (they have different and more schools, so there
> isn't a 1:1 mapping)
>
>  As Leaf noted, in the past, there was some issues with balance in schools
> - sorcery didn't have enough damage spells, so was hard to level.  Note
> that there also isn't any reason that there can't be some overlap in those
> skills - certainly the reason that there was pyromancy in addition to
> evocation is all the fire spells got put in evocation, it would have been
> an overly good skill. And in some cases, I think there is basically the
> same spell (with slightly different name) in multiple skills.
>
>   I'm not sure if you are looking for definition only, or if you plan to
> move some spells to different skills.  If the former, it will probably be
> hard to really come up with too good a definition that covers everything
> for the reasons above (this spell matches pyromancy definiton, why is it in
> evocation, etc).
>
>  If you are going to move spells around, you could also rename the skills
> if so desired at that point to have better mapping (not that I necessary
> have better ideas for new names).  I think summoning is the most well
> defined and clear cut.  But there are also some spells which got dumped
> into sorcery as it was basically the catchall for anything that did not fit
> evocation, pyromancy, or summoning.
>
>

Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-08-21 Thread Mark Wedel

On 08/21/2017 05:49 PM, David Hurst wrote:
As stated, i'm trying to enhance the messages that players receive when learning 
spells. To make this more engaging I wanted to have a clear picture of what we 
all think these spellcasting skills represent. As a starting point I presented 
this list as a definition of what is *currently *in place:


Evocation - Spells that 
remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?, depletion?)
Sorcery - Spells that create 
things (physical damage, food, strengthening)
Pyromancy - Spells that 
add energy (fire, lightning, light)
Summoning - Spells that 
call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
Praying - Spells gifted by 
channeling your gods wishes through prayer


You can check the above links to see what spells are currently available for 
each skill. I don't think the spells that are in the wrong place are not even 
remotely going to cause balance issues. Large bullet moving to sorcery is not 
going to break evocation which currently has all of the cold spells to level 
with including icestorm at level 1. Ball lightning moving to pyromancy isn't 
going to wreck evocation.


Having said that, I had this thought as I was writing the text for evocation and 
it dawned on me that I have no idea what evocation actually is. Ruben pointed 
out (and I agree with him) that the current spells don't line up very well with 
historical definitions of evocation and 
sorcery . As far as I can tell it would 
be straightforward to flip all the spells in the two skills over so that we have:


Evocation - Spells that create things (physical damage, food, strengthening)
Sorcery - Spells that remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?, depletion?)
Pyromancy - Spells that add energy (fire, lightning, light)
Summoning - Spells that call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
Praying - Spells gifted by channeling your gods wishes through prayer


 The definitions can be hard to map, because in dungeons of dragons, things 
like fireball, lightning bolt, and almost all damage spells are in the 
'evocation' school (they have different and more schools, so there isn't a 1:1 
mapping)


 As Leaf noted, in the past, there was some issues with balance in schools - 
sorcery didn't have enough damage spells, so was hard to level.  Note that there 
also isn't any reason that there can't be some overlap in those skills - 
certainly the reason that there was pyromancy in addition to evocation is all 
the fire spells got put in evocation, it would have been an overly good skill. 
And in some cases, I think there is basically the same spell (with slightly 
different name) in multiple skills.


  I'm not sure if you are looking for definition only, or if you plan to move 
some spells to different skills.  If the former, it will probably be hard to 
really come up with too good a definition that covers everything for the reasons 
above (this spell matches pyromancy definiton, why is it in evocation, etc).


 If you are going to move spells around, you could also rename the skills if so 
desired at that point to have better mapping (not that I necessary have better 
ideas for new names).  I think summoning is the most well defined and clear cut. 
 But there are also some spells which got dumped into sorcery as it was 
basically the catchall for anything that did not fit evocation, pyromancy, or 
summoning.


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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-08-21 Thread David Hurst
As stated, i'm trying to enhance the messages that players receive when
learning spells. To make this more engaging I wanted to have a clear
picture of what we all think these spellcasting skills represent. As a
starting point I presented this list as a definition of what is *currently *in
place:

Evocation - Spells
that remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?, depletion?)
Sorcery - Spells that
create things (physical damage, food, strengthening)
Pyromancy - Spells
that add energy (fire, lightning, light)
Summoning - Spells
that call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
Praying - Spells gifted
by channeling your gods wishes through prayer

You can check the above links to see what spells are currently available
for each skill. I don't think the spells that are in the wrong place are
not even remotely going to cause balance issues. Large bullet moving to
sorcery is not going to break evocation which currently has all of the cold
spells to level with including icestorm at level 1. Ball lightning moving
to pyromancy isn't going to wreck evocation.

Having said that, I had this thought as I was writing the text for
evocation and it dawned on me that I have no idea what evocation actually
is. Ruben pointed out (and I agree with him) that the current spells don't
line up very well with historical definitions of evocation
and sorcery
. As far as I can tell it would be
straightforward to flip all the spells in the two skills over so that we
have:

Evocation - Spells that create things (physical damage, food, strengthening)
Sorcery - Spells that remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?,
depletion?)
Pyromancy - Spells that add energy (fire, lightning, light)
Summoning - Spells that call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
Praying - Spells gifted by channeling your gods wishes through prayer

Thoughts?
Saru

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Rick Tanner  wrote:

> On 8/20/17 1:53 AM, David Hurst wrote:
> >
> > While working on this I noticed some odd places for spells such as
> > ball lightning in evocation (all other lightning is in pyromancy) and
> > large bullet in evocation while bullet is in sorcery.
>
> As I recall, some of the spells & skill classification were made with
> the intent to give some of the spell casters some kind of offensive
> ability to kill monsters since that is the only way to gain XP in those
> skills - even if it seemed to defy classification logic.
>
> (Unfortunately, the gmane service crash makes searching for this
> information not very easy.)
>
> If lore is needed to explain this, then perhaps something along the
> lines of:
>
> While many wizards are able channel the arcane arts, it takes great
> dedication to master these arts. This is why many wizards can use spells
> like Magic Bullet but only those specialist can master the spell's more
> powerful form of Large Bullet.
>
> > I also notice that the current information on our website is very out
> > of date and doesn't include skills like pyromancy.
>
>
> Which page(s) are missing this information?
>
> By chance, is it the Crossfire Handbook section?
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-08-21 Thread Rick Tanner
On 8/20/17 1:53 AM, David Hurst wrote:
>
> While working on this I noticed some odd places for spells such as
> ball lightning in evocation (all other lightning is in pyromancy) and
> large bullet in evocation while bullet is in sorcery.

As I recall, some of the spells & skill classification were made with
the intent to give some of the spell casters some kind of offensive
ability to kill monsters since that is the only way to gain XP in those
skills - even if it seemed to defy classification logic.

(Unfortunately, the gmane service crash makes searching for this
information not very easy.)

If lore is needed to explain this, then perhaps something along the
lines of:

While many wizards are able channel the arcane arts, it takes great
dedication to master these arts. This is why many wizards can use spells
like Magic Bullet but only those specialist can master the spell's more
powerful form of Large Bullet.

> I also notice that the current information on our website is very out
> of date and doesn't include skills like pyromancy.


Which page(s) are missing this information?

By chance, is it the Crossfire Handbook section?





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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-08-21 Thread Ruben Safir
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 10:54:00PM +1000, David Hurst wrote:
> Yeah been playing since 2001. Not sure what your point is really. I don't
> think adding a definition to a skill is an aspect of core playability at
> all.
> 


Very good, so you should understand what I am going to say.

When you develope a character over a number of years, that charactor
takes on attributes based on the type, and the god it is involved with.
With that, you carve out specfic items and enhancements around the
specifics of the charactorists of that charactor.  The biggest aspect of
this development is the mix and strength of spells which so a charactor
posesses and if you recatagorized the spells, you significantly alter
the properties of developed charactors.

The last time they made such a revamp, I lost the ability to use arrows
which was a huge part of my game play at the time being an elf that uses
Gaea.


> Saru
> 
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 10:49 PM, Ruben Safir  wrote:
> 
> > On 08/20/2017 08:10 PM, David Hurst wrote:
> > > I'm working on this as part of my work in improving balance. It may seem
> > > odd to want to define skills to improve balance, however, I tend to hit
> > > walls when I'm trying to balance someone else's work and there is no
> > > indication about what vision they had in mind. I think once I can clarify
> > > spell definitions and skill definitions, balancing will become more
> > > obvious.
> >
> >
> > this is the core playability of the system and it is really not a good
> > thing to tinker with.  Play it for a few years and see what you think then.
> >
> >
> > --
> > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
> > that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
> > proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> >
> > DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
> > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
> > http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
> > http://www.brooklyn-living.com
> >
> > Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
> > but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
> > ___
> > crossfire mailing list
> > crossfire@metalforge.org
> > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
> >

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-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com 

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive 
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com 

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, 
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-08-21 Thread David Hurst
Yeah been playing since 2001. Not sure what your point is really. I don't
think adding a definition to a skill is an aspect of core playability at
all.

Saru

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 10:49 PM, Ruben Safir  wrote:

> On 08/20/2017 08:10 PM, David Hurst wrote:
> > I'm working on this as part of my work in improving balance. It may seem
> > odd to want to define skills to improve balance, however, I tend to hit
> > walls when I'm trying to balance someone else's work and there is no
> > indication about what vision they had in mind. I think once I can clarify
> > spell definitions and skill definitions, balancing will become more
> > obvious.
>
>
> this is the core playability of the system and it is really not a good
> thing to tinker with.  Play it for a few years and see what you think then.
>
>
> --
> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
>
> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
> http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>
> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
> ___
> crossfire mailing list
> crossfire@metalforge.org
> http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-08-21 Thread Ruben Safir
On 08/20/2017 08:10 PM, David Hurst wrote:
> I'm working on this as part of my work in improving balance. It may seem
> odd to want to define skills to improve balance, however, I tend to hit
> walls when I'm trying to balance someone else's work and there is no
> indication about what vision they had in mind. I think once I can clarify
> spell definitions and skill definitions, balancing will become more
> obvious.


this is the core playability of the system and it is really not a good
thing to tinker with.  Play it for a few years and see what you think then.


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-08-21 Thread David Hurst
I'm well aware of the definitions of the words but frankly trying to define
'magic' is a bit fraught at the best of times. I based those definitions on
what spells were actually assigned to the skills in game. I'm quite happy
to shuffle them around though if people don't mind. icestorm into sorcery,
create food into evocation.. etc.

Saru

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Ruben Safir  wrote:

> what?
> On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 04:53:04PM +1000, David Hurst wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm working on improving the messages that players get in general. Today
> I
> > was working on spell messages which are provided when learning spells
> (new)
> > and viewing learnt spells via the spell menu (commit #20501).
> >
> > While working on this I noticed some odd places for spells such as ball
> > lightning in evocation (all other lightning is in pyromancy) and large
> > bullet in evocation while bullet is in sorcery. These may simply be typos
> > but I noticed that we don't appear to have defined what these skills
> > actually represent anywhere server side (there might be some definitions
> > client side I haven't noticed?). I also notice that the current
> information
> > on our website is very out of date and doesn't include skills like
> > pyromancy.
> >
> > I am thinking about adding these definitions to the skills and presenting
> > them to players when they learn the skills and updating all relevant
> > documentation (in game, wiki, website).
> >
> > Based on the way spells are currently classified, and without getting too
> > academic, I thought the following broad definitions might work:
> >
> > Evocation - Spells that remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?,
> > depletion?)
>
> That is not what the word means...
>
> > Sorcery - Spells that create things (physical damage, food,
> strengthening)
>  Um what?  That is the definition of the work Evoke and in
> Evocation.
>
> > Pyromancy - Spells that add energy (fire, lightning, light)
> > Summoning - Spells that call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
> > Praying - Spells gifted by channeling your gods wishes through prayer
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> > ___
> > crossfire mailing list
> > crossfire@metalforge.org
> > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
>
>
> --
> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
>
> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
> http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>
> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
>
> ___
> crossfire mailing list
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> http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
>
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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-08-21 Thread Ruben Safir
what?
On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 04:53:04PM +1000, David Hurst wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm working on improving the messages that players get in general. Today I
> was working on spell messages which are provided when learning spells (new)
> and viewing learnt spells via the spell menu (commit #20501).
> 
> While working on this I noticed some odd places for spells such as ball
> lightning in evocation (all other lightning is in pyromancy) and large
> bullet in evocation while bullet is in sorcery. These may simply be typos
> but I noticed that we don't appear to have defined what these skills
> actually represent anywhere server side (there might be some definitions
> client side I haven't noticed?). I also notice that the current information
> on our website is very out of date and doesn't include skills like
> pyromancy.
> 
> I am thinking about adding these definitions to the skills and presenting
> them to players when they learn the skills and updating all relevant
> documentation (in game, wiki, website).
> 
> Based on the way spells are currently classified, and without getting too
> academic, I thought the following broad definitions might work:
> 
> Evocation - Spells that remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?,
> depletion?)

That is not what the word means...

> Sorcery - Spells that create things (physical damage, food, strengthening)
 Um what?  That is the definition of the work Evoke and in
Evocation.

> Pyromancy - Spells that add energy (fire, lightning, light)
> Summoning - Spells that call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
> Praying - Spells gifted by channeling your gods wishes through prayer
> 
> Thoughts?

> ___
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> crossfire@metalforge.org
> http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com 

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive 
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com 

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, 
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-08-20 Thread David Hurst
I'm working on this as part of my work in improving balance. It may seem
odd to want to define skills to improve balance, however, I tend to hit
walls when I'm trying to balance someone else's work and there is no
indication about what vision they had in mind. I think once I can clarify
spell definitions and skill definitions, balancing will become more
obvious.

In terms of overall balance, I'm very receptive to suggestions if it looks
like a change may have caused an unintended ripple.

In the back of my mind, I have an idea that a player should be able to
clear most content using 2 different damaging skills (e.g. archery and
evocation, pyromancy and evocation, melee and archery).

Regards,
Saru

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 12:05 AM, Preston Crow <
pc-crossfir...@crowcastle.net> wrote:

> I like those definitions a lot.  However, we might want to keep the
> exceptions or at least give some good thought to how moving them would
> impact the balance of the skills.
>
> On 08/20/17 02:53, David Hurst wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm working on improving the messages that players get in general. Today I
> was working on spell messages which are provided when learning spells (new)
> and viewing learnt spells via the spell menu (commit #20501).
>
> While working on this I noticed some odd places for spells such as ball
> lightning in evocation (all other lightning is in pyromancy) and large
> bullet in evocation while bullet is in sorcery. These may simply be typos
> but I noticed that we don't appear to have defined what these skills
> actually represent anywhere server side (there might be some definitions
> client side I haven't noticed?). I also notice that the current information
> on our website is very out of date and doesn't include skills like
> pyromancy.
>
> I am thinking about adding these definitions to the skills and presenting
> them to players when they learn the skills and updating all relevant
> documentation (in game, wiki, website).
>
> Based on the way spells are currently classified, and without getting too
> academic, I thought the following broad definitions might work:
>
> Evocation - Spells that remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?,
> depletion?)
> Sorcery - Spells that create things (physical damage, food, strengthening)
> Pyromancy - Spells that add energy (fire, lightning, light)
> Summoning - Spells that call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
> Praying - Spells gifted by channeling your gods wishes through prayer
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> ___
> crossfire mailing 
> listcrossfire@metalforge.orghttp://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [crossfire] Spellcasting skills definition

2017-08-20 Thread Preston Crow
I like those definitions a lot.  However, we might want to keep the 
exceptions or at least give some good thought to how moving them would 
impact the balance of the skills.



On 08/20/17 02:53, David Hurst wrote:

Hi all,

I'm working on improving the messages that players get in general. 
Today I was working on spell messages which are provided when learning 
spells (new) and viewing learnt spells via the spell menu (commit #20501).


While working on this I noticed some odd places for spells such as 
ball lightning in evocation (all other lightning is in pyromancy) and 
large bullet in evocation while bullet is in sorcery. These may simply 
be typos but I noticed that we don't appear to have defined what these 
skills actually represent anywhere server side (there might be some 
definitions client side I haven't noticed?). I also notice that the 
current information on our website is very out of date and doesn't 
include skills like pyromancy.


I am thinking about adding these definitions to the skills and 
presenting them to players when they learn the skills and updating all 
relevant documentation (in game, wiki, website).


Based on the way spells are currently classified, and without getting 
too academic, I thought the following broad definitions might work:


Evocation - Spells that remove energy (cold spells, poison, draining?, 
depletion?)

Sorcery - Spells that create things (physical damage, food, strengthening)
Pyromancy - Spells that add energy (fire, lightning, light)
Summoning - Spells that call and control monsters (golems, pets, etc)
Praying - Spells gifted by channeling your gods wishes through prayer

Thoughts?


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