Re: The Shining Cryptographers Net

2001-01-21 Thread John Denker
At 10:10 AM 1/20/01 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >This analysis will focus on one particular kind of attack. Eve will make >measurements of the photon polarization angle as it travels through the >network and attempt to deduce information about the signals being sent >by the participants. Th

Re: The Shining Cryptographers Net

2001-01-19 Thread John Denker
At 02:04 PM 1/18/01 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >the rotation stations could >somehow count or limit the number of photons going through so that they >would know when there were extra. I think this is possible in theory; Right, it is. Here's a Gedankenexperiment: temporarily trap the sign

Re: The Shining Cryptographers Net

2001-01-18 Thread John Denker
At 11:20 PM 1/17/01 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in part: >>The probability that Eve's measurement will leave the result unchanged is >>3/4, and therefore the probability that she will perturb the result is 1/4. OK so far. Then, for the case of two measurements, >>Eve's chances of perturbing

Re: The Shining Cryptographers Net

2001-01-18 Thread John Denker
At 08:35 PM 1/16/01 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in part: >In some variants the photon travels around the group multiple times before >it is measured. Let us call this number of times the "circulation count". 1) Let C denote the circulation count. The idea of having C>1 is very nice. One

Re: The Shining Cryptographers Net

2001-01-17 Thread John Denker
At 08:35 PM 1/16/01 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >To recap, a group of cryptographers wants to communicate anonymously, >without the sender of a message being traced. To recap in more detail, as I understand it: 1) The desired result is a plain broadcast message, open to the world (includ

Re: The Shining Cryptographers Net

2001-01-16 Thread John Denker
At 10:35 PM 1/15/01 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Here is a rough idea for a quantum-cryptography variant on the DC Net, >the Dining Cryptographers Net invented by David Chaum. >The photon starts off with vertical polarization. Each cryptographer >manages a station through which the photo

Re: audio keyboard snooping

2001-01-13 Thread John Denker
At 01:37 PM 1/12/01 -0800, Ray Dillinger mentioned: >interferometry to get the exact locations >on a keyboard of keystrokes from the sound of someone typing. Whereupon Perry conjectured: >A quick contemplation of the wavelength of the sounds in question >would put an end to that speculation I su

bug+fix: linux /dev/random

2000-06-22 Thread John Denker
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hi Folks -- There is a bug in /usr/src/linux/drivers/char/random.c. Basically, it acts as if it can hold 32x less entropy than you would think based on the configuration parameters or the ioctls. For instance, if it is configured for 4096 bits max, and you fil

Re: recurrence relation (iterated nonlinear map)

2000-03-25 Thread John Denker
At 12:50 PM 3/25/00 -0800, Bram Cohen wrote: >Given that f(x+1) = f(x) * f(x) + c, does anybody know how to express f(x) >in closed form? Well... That's an example of an iterated nonlinear map. Such things have been extensively studied. For some values of c, for some initial conditions, the

Re: time dependant

2000-03-10 Thread John Denker
At 08:09 PM 3/10/00 -0600, John Kelsey wrote: >But there's a related engineering question: Does >it make sense to build large systems in which there's no way >for humans to overrule the actions of programs once they're >set in motion? ... >To use a more common example, I believe there were some

Re: linux-ipsec: Re: Summary re: /dev/random

1999-08-17 Thread John Denker
Hi Ted -- At 11:41 PM 8/14/99 -0400, you wrote: > >standard Mathematician's style --- encrypted by formulae >guaranteed to make it opaque to all but those who are trained in the >peculiar style of Mathematics' papers. > ... >someone tried to pursuade me to use Maurer's test >... >too memory i

Re: linux-ipsec: /dev/random

1999-08-04 Thread John Denker
At 11:42 AM 8/4/99 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >Pluto is a "bad guy" in that it is using up the entropy-estimate. Your modesty is charming. But I wouldn't say that pluto is the bad guy. There "ought" to be a system service (call it /dev/vrandom or whatever) that provides the sort of bit

Re: linux-ipsec: /dev/random

1999-08-04 Thread John Denker
At 10:08 AM 8/4/99 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >I think that this description reflects an inappropriate understanding >of entropy. Entropy is in some sense spread throughout the whole >output of /dev/urandom. You don't use entropy up, you spread it over >more and more bytes of output. Th

Re: linux-ipsec: /dev/random

1999-08-03 Thread John Denker
At 01:50 PM 8/2/99 -0400, Paul Koning wrote: > >I only remember a few proposals (2 or 3?) and they didn't seem to be >[unduly weak]. Or do you feel that what I've proposed is this >weak? If so, why? I've seen comments that say "be careful" but I >don't remember any comments suggesting that what

Re: linux-ipsec: /dev/random

1999-08-03 Thread John Denker
At 01:27 PM 8/2/99 -0400, Paul Koning wrote: > >we weren't talking about "in principle" or "in general". >Sure, given an unspecified process of unknown (to me) properties I >cannot make sensible statements about its entropy. That is true but >it isn't relevant to the discussion. > >Instead, we're

Re: linux-ipsec: /dev/random

1999-08-03 Thread John Denker
At 10:09 AM 8/2/99 -0400, Paul Koning wrote: > >1. Estimating entropy. Yes, that's the hard one. It's orthogonal >from everything else. /dev/random has a fairly simple approach; >Yarrow is more complex. > >It's not clear which is better. If there's reason to worry about the >one in /dev/random

Re: linux-ipsec: Re: TRNG, PRNG

1999-07-28 Thread John Denker
At 08:02 PM 7/22/99 +0200, Anonymous wrote: >> That is: >> 1a') When there is entropy in the pool, it [/dev/urandom] >> gobbles it all up before >> acting like a PRNG. Leverage factor=1. This causes other applications to >> stall if they need to read /dev/random. > >This does not seem to be a

Re: House committee ditches SAFE for law enforcement version

1999-07-26 Thread John Denker
At 07:31 AM 7/26/99 -0400, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > >".. for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be >questioned in any other place." > >But then again, i'm not a lawyer, and I'm also not sure how this >provision has been interpreted in the past.. IANL but as you can imagine, memb

Re: TRNG, PRNG

1999-07-22 Thread John Denker
Hi Folks -- Thanks to all for the nice discussion. Here are some comments and a proposal: 1) Linux /dev/urandom can be considered a PRNG with some good properties but two suboptimal properties: 1a) First it reseeds too much, and then 1b) it reseeds in dribs and drabs. That is: 1a') When

depleting the random number generator

1999-07-17 Thread John Denker
Hi Folks -- I have a question about various scenarios for an attack against IPsec by way of the random number generator. The people on the linux-ipsec mailing list suggested I bring it up here. Specifically: consider a central machine (call it Whitney) that is implementing many IPsec tunnel