Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread Perry E. Metzger
Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> There are well-attended conferences, papers published online and in many >> journals, etcetera. So it's not so difficult for people who don't know >> anything about security and crypto to eventually figure out who does, in >> the process also learning who else

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread Perry E. Metzger
Ed Gerck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> So I hold the PIN constant and vary the bank account number. > > This is, indeed, a possible attack considering that the same IP may be > legitimately used by different users behind NAT firewalls and/or with > dynamic IPs. However,

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread Perry E. Metzger
"James A. Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Arshad Noor wrote: >> While programmers or business=people could be ill-informed, Allen, >> I think the greater danger is that IT auditors do not know enough >> about cryptography, and consequently pass unsafe business processes >> and/or software as

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread Ed Gerck
Allen wrote: During the transmission from an ATM machine 4 numeric characters are probably safe because the machines use dedicated dry pair phone lines for the most part, as I understand the system. This, combined with triple DES, makes it very difficult to compromise or do a MIM attack becaus

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 11:47:54AM -0700, Allen wrote: > Nicolas Williams wrote: > >On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 07:16:17AM -0700, Allen wrote: > >>Given this, the real question is, /"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"/ > > > >Putting aside the fact that cryptographers aren't custodians of > >anything, it

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread Allen
Nicolas Williams wrote: On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 07:16:17AM -0700, Allen wrote: Given this, the real question is, /"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"/ Putting aside the fact that cryptographers aren't custodians of anything, it's all about social institutions. Well, I wouldn't say they aren't

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread Ed Gerck
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ed Gerck writes: -+-- | ... | Not so fast. Bank PINs are usually just 4 numeric characters long and | yet they are considered /safe/ even for web access to the account | (where a physical card is not required). | | Why? Because after 4 tries the acces

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread Allen
Ed Gerck wrote: Allen wrote: Very. The (I hate to use this term for something so pathetic) password for the file is 6 (yes, six) numeric characters! My 6 year old K6-II can crack this in less than one minute as there are only 1.11*10^6 possible. Not so fast. Bank PINs are usually just 4 n

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread dan
Ed Gerck writes: -+-- | ... | Not so fast. Bank PINs are usually just 4 numeric characters long and | yet they are considered /safe/ even for web access to the account | (where a physical card is not required). | | Why? Because after 4 tries the access is blocked for your IP n

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 07:16:17AM -0700, Allen wrote: > Given this, the real question is, /"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"/ Putting aside the fact that cryptographers aren't custodians of anything, it's all about social institutions. There are well-attended conferences, papers published online

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
James A. Donald wrote: Committees of experts regularly get cryptography wrong - consider, for example the Wifi debacle. Each wifi release contains classic and infamous errors - for example WPA-Personal is subject to offline dictionary attack. One would have thought that after the first disas

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread Allen
Arshad Noor wrote: While programmers or business=people could be ill-informed, Allen, I think the greater danger is that IT auditors do not know enough about cryptography, and consequently pass unsafe business processes and/or software as being secure. This is the reason why we in the OASIS En

Re: Why doesn't Sun release the crypto module of the OpenSPARC?

2008-06-30 Thread Jack Lloyd
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 12:19:04PM -0700, zooko wrote: > and probably other commodity products). Likewise newfangled ciphers like > Salsa20 and EnRUPT will be considered by me to be faster than AES (because > they are faster in software) rather than slower (because AES might be built > into the

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread James A. Donald
Arshad Noor wrote: While programmers or business=people could be ill-informed, Allen, I think the greater danger is that IT auditors do not know enough about cryptography, and consequently pass unsafe business processes and/or software as being secure. Committees of experts regularly get crypto

Re: The wisdom of the ill informed

2008-06-30 Thread Ed Gerck
Allen wrote: Very. The (I hate to use this term for something so pathetic) password for the file is 6 (yes, six) numeric characters! My 6 year old K6-II can crack this in less than one minute as there are only 1.11*10^6 possible. Not so fast. Bank PINs are usually just 4 numeric characters l