Re: [Cryptography] real random numbers

2013-09-15 Thread John Denker
Previously I said we need to speak more carefully about these things. Let me start by taking my own advice: Alas on 09/14/2013 12:29 PM, I wrote: a) In the linux random device, /any/ user can mix stuff into the driver's pool. This is a non-privileged operation. The idea is that it can't

Re: [Cryptography] real random numbers

2013-09-15 Thread Jerry Leichter
On Sep 14, 2013, at 5:38 PM, Kent Borg wrote: Things like clock skew are usually nothing but squish ... not reliably predictable, but also not reliably unpredictable. I'm not interested in squish, and I'm not interested in speculation about things that might be random. I see theoretical

Re: [Cryptography] real random numbers

2013-09-15 Thread ianG
On 15/09/13 00:38 AM, Kent Borg wrote: On 09/14/2013 03:29 PM, John Denker wrote: And once we have built such vaguely secure systems, why reject entropy sources within those systems, merely because they you think they look like squish? If there is a random component, why toss it out? He's

Re: [Cryptography] real random numbers

2013-09-15 Thread Kent Borg
On 09/15/2013 10:19 AM, John Kelsey wrote: But those are pretty critical things, especially (a). You need to know whether it is yet safe to generate your high-value keypair. For that, you don't need super precise entropy estimates, but you do need at least a good first cut entropy

Re: [Cryptography] real random numbers

2013-09-15 Thread Kent Borg
John Kelsey wrote: I think the big problem with (b) is in quantifying the entropy you get. Maybe don't. When Bruce Schneier last put his hand to designing an RNG he concluded that estimating entropy is doomed. I don't think he would object to some coarse order-of-magnitude confirmation that

[Cryptography] ADMIN: entropy of randomness discussion is falling...

2013-09-15 Thread Perry E. Metzger
One wants maximum entropy not only from one's RNG but also from one's discussions about randomness. Sadly, entropy is measured based on the level of surprise at the content, and the level of surprise is going down in the current discussion. As surprise goes to zero, so does interest on the part

Re: [Cryptography] Why prefer symmetric crypto over public key crypto?

2013-09-15 Thread Tony Arcieri
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.comwrote: - Life will look a bit bleak for a while once we get to quantum machine cryptopocalypse... Why? We already have NTRU. We also have Lamport Signatures. djb is working on McBits. I'd say there's already many options

Re: [Cryptography] Security is a total system problem (was Re: Perfection versus Forward Secrecy)

2013-09-15 Thread Dirk-Willem van Gulik
Op 13 sep. 2013, om 21:23 heeft Perry E. Metzger pe...@piermont.com het volgende geschreven: On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:08:38 +0200 Eugen Leitl eu...@leitl.org wrote: Why e.g. SWIFT is not running on one time pads is beyond me. I strongly suspect that delivering them securely to the vast

Re: [Cryptography] prism proof email, namespaces, and anonymity

2013-09-15 Thread StealthMonger
John Kelsey crypto@gmail.com writes: In the overwhelming majority of cases, I know and want to know the people I'm talking with. I just don't want to contents of those conversations or the names of people I'm talking with to be revealed to eavesdroppers. And if I get an email from one