Pre-cursor to Non-Secret Encryption

2003-06-18 Thread John Young
James Ellis, GCHQ, in his account of the development of non-secret
encryption credits a Bell Laboratories 1944 report  on Project
C-43 for stimulating his conception:


http://www.cesg.gov.uk/publications/media/nsecret/possnse.pdf

  The Possibility of Secure Non-Secret Digital Encryption
  J. H. Ellis, January 1970

  Reference: (1) Final report on project C43. Bell Telephone 
  Laboratory, October, 1944, p.23.

The Bell lab paper appears not to be online.

Brian Durham notes that NSA has listed in its Open Door archive of 
declassified crypto papers several of which refer to a Project 
C-43 which investigated from 1941-1944 decoding of speech codes.


http://www.nsa.gov/programs/opendoor/narafindaid.html

  NR 4242 ZEMA172 35374A 19410521 PROJECT C-43 PRELIMINARY 
  REPORTS

  NR 4243 ZEMA172 35375A 19411215 PROJECT C43 PRELIMINARY 
  AND PROGRESS REPORTS

  NR 4675 ZEMA43 21276A 19430130 PROJECT C-43 CONTINUATION 
  OF DECODING SPEECH CODES

  NR 3391 CBPM44 24215A 19441012 PROJECT C-43 DECODING 
  SPEECH CODES

The date of the last, October 12, 1944, corresponds to that of the
Ellis citation. If this is the paper Ellis is referring to, it is worth
noting 
the dates of the earlier reports, two in 1941 and one in 1943.

Two other reports in the NSA archive may be related:

  NR 2416 CBLM17 5452A 19420529 NRDC PROJECT C-32: AC 
  AND EC CASE NO. 22

  NR 4674 ZEMA43 21275A 19420131 FINAL REPORT ON 
  PROJECT C-32 SPEECH PRIVACY DECODING, 1942

Brian Durham will get copies of the paper for putting online,
but that may take a while. 

Meanwhile, we would appreciate hearing from anyone who 
has read the papers or may have copies of them to share
for publication.

Related: We have a three-year-old FOIA request to NSA for 
information on:

  The invention, discovery and development of non-secret 
  encryption (NSE) and public key cryptography (PKC) by 
  United Kingdom, United States, or any other nation's 
  intelligence and cryptology agencies, prior to, parallel with, 
  or subsequent to, the PKC work of Diffie-Hellman-Merkle. 

NSA has recently said that some responsive information 
may be released in the near future, although it is not clear if 
that is weeks or months or years away.



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Re: Pre-cursor to Non-Secret Encryption

2003-06-18 Thread Fredrik Henbjork
John Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 James Ellis, GCHQ, in his account of the development of non-secret
 encryption credits a Bell Laboratories 1944 report  on Project
 C-43 for stimulating his conception:
 
 
 http://www.cesg.gov.uk/publications/media/nsecret/possnse.pdf

The URL above does not work. The new one is:

http://www.cesg.gov.uk/site/publications/media/nsecret/possnse.pdf

Fredrik Henbjork [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: The meat with multiple PGP subkeys

2003-06-18 Thread Stefan Kelm
David,

 A reasonable question would be Why don't all the PKS operators
 replace their server with SKS or something else?.  I don't have a
 good answer to that.  It's certainly been asked.[3]

...and has been answered a number of times. The thing is (and most people 
seem to forget about this now and then) that most, if not all, of the 
pgp.net server operators do run their servers in their spare time. Since 
pksd has a long history of not being overly stable one is happy once the 
server is up and running. Thus, the never-change-a-running-system 
paradigm is being lived in this realm.  

Cheers,

Stefan.

Security Awareness Symposium - 24.-25.06.2003, Karlsruhe
http://www.security-awareness-symposium.de/

Dipl.-Inform. Stefan Kelm
Security Consultant

Secorvo Security Consulting GmbH
Albert-Nestler-Strasse 9, D-76131 Karlsruhe

Tel. +49 721 6105-461, Fax +49 721 6105-455
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.secorvo.de/
---
PGP Fingerprint 87AE E858 CCBC C3A2 E633 D139 B0D9 212B



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Re: Pre-cursor to Non-Secret Encryption

2003-06-18 Thread Dave Howe
John Young wrote:
 James Ellis, GCHQ, in his account of the development of non-secret
 encryption credits a Bell Laboratories 1944 report  on Project
 C-43 for stimulating his conception:
However the concept seems familiar enough - unless I am missing something, a
PRNG (n for noise rather than number this time) in sync with a similar PRNG
at the recipient end is mixed with the plaintext signal to give a
cryptotext; the matching unit subtracts the same values from the received
signal to give the original plaintext.  If it were digital we would probably
xor it :)


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Re: The meat with multiple PGP subkeys

2003-06-18 Thread David Shaw
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 03:47:01PM +0200, Stefan Kelm wrote:
 David,
 
  A reasonable question would be Why don't all the PKS operators
  replace their server with SKS or something else?.  I don't have a
  good answer to that.  It's certainly been asked.[3]
 
 ...and has been answered a number of times. The thing is (and most people 
 seem to forget about this now and then) that most, if not all, of the 
 pgp.net server operators do run their servers in their spare time. Since 
 pksd has a long history of not being overly stable one is happy once the 
 server is up and running. Thus, the never-change-a-running-system 
 paradigm is being lived in this realm.  

These servers are *broken*, and harming the use of PGP.  Countless
FAQs and other documents extol the keyserver network, and so new PGP
users try it and get their keys eaten.  One would hope that
never-change-a-running-system wouldn't apply when the running system
was actively causing damage.  It's not just subkeys: PKS allows for a
number of denial of service attacks against keys stored in it.

It's a question, but the way I see it, if a keyserver operator doesn't
want to fix critical bugs for fear of messing with a stable system,
then just turn the thing off.  That's stable too, and doesn't harm
anyone.

At least now there is subkeys.pgp.net so users can ignore the servers
that aren't being fixed (and we just have to educate everyone to use
it).

David

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Re: Pre-cursor to Non-Secret Encryption

2003-06-18 Thread Steven M. Bellovin
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Young writes:


Related: We have a three-year-old FOIA request to NSA for 
information on:

  The invention, discovery and development of non-secret 
  encryption (NSE) and public key cryptography (PKC) by 
  United Kingdom, United States, or any other nation's 
  intelligence and cryptology agencies, prior to, parallel with, 
  or subsequent to, the PKC work of Diffie-Hellman-Merkle. 

NSA has recently said that some responsive information 
may be released in the near future, although it is not clear if 
that is weeks or months or years away.


Can you amend that to ask for digital signature information, too?  From 
my research on Permissive Action Links, I think there's some chance 
that digital signatures were invented separately, possibly by NSA 
before GCHQ's non-secret encryption work.

--Steve Bellovin, http://www.research.att.com/~smb (me)
http://www.wilyhacker.com (2nd edition of Firewalls book)



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Re: The meat with multiple PGP subkeys

2003-06-18 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach David Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003.06.18.0240 +0200]:
 The problem is that the PKS keyserver was not written to handle keys
 with multiple subkeys.

[snip]

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't know about subkeys.pgp.net yet.

Moreover, I second the belief that the keyservers must be fixed as
they are really harming the PGP infrastructure.

I support Jason's work:

  http://keyserver.kjsl.com/~jharris/keyserver.html

and am already talking the wwwkeys.ch.pgp.net people into upgrading.

Maybe everybody can pick a keyserver of their choice and sit on the
admin's face until s/he gets it... ? Let's riot!

Can someone tell me why the heck SKS is written in Ocaml? What an
annoyance is that? No offence to the Ocaml people here...

-- 
martin;  (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
  \ echo mailto: !#^.*|tr * mailto:; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
keyserver problems? http://keyserver.kjsl.com/~jharris/keyserver.html
get my key here: http://madduck.net/me/gpg/publickey
 
there is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe,
 and it has a longer shelf life.
-- frank zappa


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