Re: Use of TPM chip for RNG?

2006-07-04 Thread Anne Lynn Wheeler
Peter Gutmann wrote: You have to be pretty careful here. Most of the TPM chips are just rebadged smart cards, and the RNGs on those are often rather dubious. A standard technique is to repeatedly encrypt some stored seed with an onboard block cipher (e.g. DES) as your RNG. Beyond the obvious

Re: Use of TPM chip for RNG?

2006-07-04 Thread Travis H.
On 7/3/06, Leichter, Jerry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Would you want to use a hardware RNG that was *not* inside a tamper-proof package - i.e., inside of a package that allows someone to tamper with it? Yes. If someone has physical access to

Re: Use of TPM chip for RNG?

2006-07-04 Thread Travis H.
On 7/2/06, Peter Gutmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have to be pretty careful here. Most of the TPM chips are just rebadged smart cards, and the RNGs on those are often rather dubious. My last email of the day, I promise ;-) And if you're interested in some of the smart card developments,

Re: Quantum RNG (was: Use of TPM chip for RNG)

2006-07-04 Thread Andrea Pasquinucci
About RNG, does someone in the list have any comment, ideas on this http://www.idquantique.com/products/quantis.htm Quantis is a physical random number generator exploiting an elementary quantum optics process. Photons - light particles - are sent one by one onto a semi-transparent mirror and

Re: Use of TPM chip for RNG?

2006-07-04 Thread Anne Lynn Wheeler
Travis H. wrote: http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/smartcard99/technical.html http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/cardis02/tech.html and even this ... having to resort to the wayback machine

Re: Use of TPM chip for RNG?

2006-07-04 Thread leichter_jerrold
| On 7/3/06, Leichter, Jerry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Would you want to use a | hardware RNG that was *not* inside a tamper-proof package - i.e., inside | of a package that allows someone to tamper with it? | | Yes. If someone has physical

Re: Quantum RNG

2006-07-04 Thread John Denker
Andrea Pasquinucci wrote: http://www.idquantique.com/products/quantis.htm Quantis is a physical random number generator exploiting an elementary quantum optics process. Photons - light particles - are sent one by one onto a semi-transparent mirror and detected. The exclusive events

Re: Quantum RNG (was: Use of TPM chip for RNG)

2006-07-04 Thread Taral
On 7/4/06, Andrea Pasquinucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: About RNG, does someone in the list have any comment, ideas on this http://www.idquantique.com/products/quantis.htm Why? Noise-based RNGs are just as random and just as quantum. :) -- Taral [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can't prove anything.

Irish eVoting Vetoed

2006-07-04 Thread John McCormac
The Irish government's commission's report on the NEDAP/Powervote system has been published. (PDFs on the site) http://www.cev.ie/htm/report/download_second.htm As a secure system, it leaves a lot to be desired and it seems to be an example in how not to implement an eVoting system. Just

Re: Use of TPM chip for RNG?

2006-07-04 Thread Ben Laurie
Peter Gutmann wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hal Finney) writes: A few weeks ago I asked for information on using the increasingly prevalent built-in TPM chips in computers (especially laptops) as a random number source. You have to be pretty careful here. Most of the TPM chips are just

Re: Use of TPM chip for RNG?

2006-07-04 Thread Thor Lancelot Simon
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 10:41:05AM -0600, Anne Lynn Wheeler wrote: however, at least some of the TPM chips have RNGs that have some level of certification (although you might have to do some investigation to find out what specific chip is being used for TPM). See one of the examples in my

Dirty Secrets of noise based RNGs

2006-07-04 Thread Thor Lancelot Simon
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 02:31:10PM +1200, Peter Gutmann wrote: So the only hardware RNG I'd trust is one of the noise-based ones on full- scale crypto processors like the Broadcom or HiFn devices, or the Via x86's. There are some smart-card vendors who've tried to replicate this type of