On randomness

2008-07-31 Thread John Denker
In 1951, John von Neumann wrote: Any one who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin. That may or may not be an overstatement. IMHO it all depends on what is meant by random. The only notion of randomness that I have found worthwhile is the

Re: On the randomness of DNS

2008-07-31 Thread Pierre-Evariste Dagand
SHA-1(1), SHA-1(2), SHA-1(3), ... SHA-1(N) will look random, but clearly is not. Just by curiosity, I ran the Diehard tests on /dev/random (FreeBSD 7.0) and a sha1 sequence of [ 1 ... N ]. Both random files are 63 Mb. I know that there has been some controversy about /dev/random of FreeBSD on

Re: On the randomness of DNS

2008-07-31 Thread Bill Stewart
Ben wrote: But just how GREAT is that, really? Well, we don' t know. Why? Because there isn't actually a way test for randomness. Your DNS resolver could be using some easily predicted random number generator like, say, a linear congruential one, as is common in the rand() library

Re: On the randomness of DNS

2008-07-31 Thread Ben Laurie
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: I fail to see how you could evaluate this without seeing the code (and even then - I doubt that one can properly do this -- the ?old? NSA habit of tweaking your random generated rather than your protocol/algorithm when they wanted your produced upgraded to export

Re: On the randomness of DNS

2008-07-31 Thread Philipp Gühring
Hi, I would suggest to use http://www.cacert.at/random/ to test the randomness of the DNS source ports. Due to the large variety of random-number sources that have been tested there already, it's useful as a classification service of unknown randomly looking numbers. You just have to collect

Re: On the unpredictability of DNS

2008-07-31 Thread William Allen Simpson
I've changed the subject. Some of my own rants are about mathematical cryptographers that are looking for the perfect solution, instead of practical security solution. Always think about the threat first! In this threat environment, the attacker is unlikely to have perfect knowledge of the