Re: [Clips] Does Phil Zimmermann need a clue on VoIP?

2005-08-06 Thread Mark Allen Earnest
 I've personally
  designed and deployed many PKI solutions for large corporations for all
  sorts of security applications ranging from remote VPN access to wireless
  LAN security, and I can attest that the technology is simple, scalable, and
  reliable.  

*yawn* Yet another person who confuses PK with PKI. Almost NOBODY has
ever done PKI right. The I is the part everyone conveniently forgets
when they claim otherwise.

-- 

Mark Allen Earnest

Lead Systems Programmer
Emerging Technologies
The Pennsylvania State University

KB3LYB


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature


Re: [Clips] Does Phil Zimmermann need a clue on VoIP?

2005-08-06 Thread Anne Lynn Wheeler
Mark Allen Earnest wrote:
 *yawn* Yet another person who confuses PK with PKI. Almost NOBODY has
 ever done PKI right. The I is the part everyone conveniently forgets
 when they claim otherwise.

when we were doing this stuff related to e-commerce ... we also had to
go out and audit some number of these certificate issuing institutions.
we frequently explained to them what a service operation was. at the
time, we coined the term *certificate manufactoring* to help
differentiate from a PKI. one of the  largest organization commented
that they thot it was somehow involved computers and technology and
other fancy stuff ... and they were finding out that even simple
*certificate manufactoring* was 95 percent or more bookkeeping,
accounting and paper work. there was frequently questions about how they
might outsource even that little part of service oriented operation.

random past posts on ssl domain name certificates ... some number dating
back to the period of the original payment gateway.
http://www.garlic.com/subpubkey.html#sslcert

one of the big issues for real businesses with extensive and well
established relationship management infrastructure ... it readily became
apparent that even trivial *certificate manufactoring* operation
represented a significant redundant and superfluous activity ...
unnecessarily duplicating existing business operations.

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Re: [Clips] Does Phil Zimmermann need a clue on VoIP?

2005-08-06 Thread Anne Lynn Wheeler
Anne  Lynn Wheeler wrote:
 random past posts on ssl domain name certificates ... some number dating
 back to the period of the original payment gateway.
 http://www.garlic.com/subpubkey.html#sslcert

oops, finger slip, that should be
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#sslcert

... oh, and there are some slightly related postings regarding the
period from another thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#30 Data communications over
telegraph circuits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#26 Data communications over
telegraph circuits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#27 Data communications over
telegraph circuits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#28 Data communications over
telegraph circuits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#29 Data communications over
telegraph circuits

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[Clips] Does Phil Zimmermann need a clue on VoIP?

2005-08-05 Thread R.A. Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


 Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 12:06:24 -0400
 To: Philodox Clips List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 From: R.A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [Clips] Does Phil Zimmermann need a clue on VoIP?
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=86

 | George Ou | ZDNet.com

 8/4/2005
  Does Phil Zimmermann need a clue on VoIP?

 -Posted by George Ou @ 11:52 am
 Security
  Infrastructure

 Updated: 8/5/2005 @ 4:06 am Phil Zimmermann of PGP fame, a legend in the
 cryptography world, was cooking up a new secure VoIP brew at last week's
 Black Hat conference-but could he be just a little bit out of touch?  As
 much as I respect the man's intellectual prowess and his contribution to
 the field of cryptography, I don't think I can say the same about his
 product design skills.  Product design and product marketing is less about
 intellectual prowess than understanding the needs of the average human
 user.  When I read about Zimmermann's recent VoIP demonstration at Black
 Hat, it made me doubt his product design skills even more.
 Phil Zimmermann criticizes existing VoIP cryptographic solutions for
 relying on PKI.  Given the fact that Zimmermann's PGP technology has always
 been an alternative to PKI based technologies, one can expect a bit of a
 natural bias against PKI-based solutions.  Just about every other
 PKI-alternative cryptography company has gone as far as declaring PKI dead
 even tough PKI has been thriving for the last decade with E-Commerce
 leading the charge in a massive global PKI implementation.  I've personally
 designed and deployed many PKI solutions for large corporations for all
 sorts of security applications ranging from remote VPN access to wireless
 LAN security, and I can attest that the technology is simple, scalable, and
 reliable.  It's an undeniable fact that any solution that promises to
 bypass PKI always end up being more trouble than it's worth.
 One of the biggest recent successes in VoIP or any application class is the
 phenomenon of Skype.  Skype has managed to gain more users in a single year
 than all of the other VoIP software solutions put together; at last count,
 there were about 148 million downloads of Skype.  Millions of people use it
 every day without even knowing that they are using PKI technology with
 1024-bit RSA keys for secure authentication and 256-bit military grade AES
 encryption.  While other vendors talk the talk about cryptography and how
 nice it would be if only people would use it, Skype actually deployed the
 biggest secure VoIP communications scheme ever using a seamless PKI
 implementation.  Most people just never knew it because Skype spent less
 time talking about it than implementing it.  Looking at Zimmermann's
 PKI-less VoIP cryptography scheme, I doubt it will be as seamless a
 solution.
 On the connectivity side, Zimmermann's demonstration at Black Hat showed
 why Skype still reigns supreme over everyone else.  As a matter of fact,
 Zimmermann's demo almost never left the ground because of router traversal
 problems.  While firewall and router traversal problems aren't uncommon
 among most VoIP solutions, it is one of the biggest impediments (next to
 inadequate or missing microphones on the modern personal computer) to the
 success of VoIP.  The reason Skype exploded onto the scene was that they
 alone understood that the average computer user is in no mood to mess with
 firewall rules, port triggers, and NAT traversal problems and
 probably doesn't even know or care what I'm talking about.  Skype wrapped
 their entire VoIP payload into a simple firewall- and NAT-friendly packet
 and used the power of peer-to-peer technology to make Skype work under any
 environment.  All the complexity is hidden under the hood and even grandma
 can now use PC telephony.
 Skype has set the gold standard for ease-of-use and seamless security.
 Any VoIP solution from this point forward that fails to meet this standard
 will be dead on arrival.  Although it may be too early to tell how
 Zimmermann's solution will fare in the end, it certainly doesn't appear to
 be off to a good start.  Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on a solution that is
 still a work in progress or maybe Zimmerman thinks I'm way off base.  Phil
 if you're reading this and you want to tell me I'm wrong and why, I'll be
 more than happy to post your reply.

 --
 -
 R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
 ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
 [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
 experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
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Re: [Clips] Does Phil Zimmermann need a clue on VoIP?

2005-08-05 Thread Victor Duchovni
On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 12:07:44PM -0400, R.A. Hettinga wrote:

  http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=86
  | George Ou | ZDNet.com
 
  Just about every other
  PKI-alternative cryptography company has gone as far as declaring PKI dead
  even tough PKI has been thriving for the last decade with E-Commerce
  leading the charge in a massive global PKI implementation.  I've personally
  designed and deployed many PKI solutions for large corporations for all
  sorts of security applications ranging from remote VPN access to wireless
  LAN security, and I can attest that the technology is simple, scalable, and
  reliable.  It's an undeniable fact that any solution that promises to
  bypass PKI always end up being more trouble than it's worth.

That is sure some sweet coolaid George got his hands on! I wonder where
I could get some. :-)

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