Re: Repudiating non-repudiation

2003-12-29 Thread Jerrold Leichter
Ian's message gave a summary that's in my accord with how courts work.  Since
lawyers learn by example - and the law grow by and example - here's a case
that I think closely parallels the legal issues in repudiation of digital
signature cases.  The case, which if I remember right (from hearing about it
20 years ago from a friend in law school) is known informally as the
Green Giant Peas case, and forms one of the bases of modern tort liability.

The beginning of the 20th century lead to the first mass production, distri-
bution, and marketing of foods.  Before that, you bought peas.  Now, you
could buy a can of Green Giant Peas, sold by a large manufacturer who sold
through stores all over the place, and advertised for your business.

Someone bought a can of Green Giant Peas at a local store.  The can contained
metal shavings.  The purchaser we injured, and sued Green Giant.  One of the
defenses Green Giant raised was:  Just because it says Green Giant on the label
doesn't *prove* Green Giant actually packed the stuff!  The plaintiff must
first prove that these peas really were packed by Green Giant.  Such defenses
had worked in the past - there are many of the same general flavor, insisting
that no recovery should be possible unless plaintiff could reach a level of
proof that was inherently unreachable.  In this case, the courts finally
threw out this defense.  I can't find the actual case on line, but at
http://www.lawspirit.com/legalenglish/handbook/evid08.htm (a curious site -
it seems to be mainly in Chinese) the following text appears:

D. Self-authentication: A few types of documents are
self-authenticating, because they are so likely to be what they
seem, that no testimony or other evidence of their genuineness need be
produced. [474 - 475]

1. State provisions: Under most state statutes, the following
are self-authenticating: (1) deeds and other instruments that
are notarized; (2) certified copies of public records (e.g., a
certified copy of a death certificate); and (3) books of
statutes which appear to be printed by a government body
(e.g., a statute book appearing to be from a sister state or
foreign country).

2. Federal Rules: FRE 902 recognizes the above three classes,
and also adds: (1) all official publications (not just
statutes); (2) newspapers or periodicals; and (3) labels,
signs, or other inscriptions indicating ownership, control,
or origin (e.g., a can of peas bearing the label Green Giant
Co. is self-authenticating as having been produced by Green
Giant Co.).

Self-authenticating here seems very close in concept to what we are trying
to accomplish with digital signatures - and the Green Giant example shows how
the law grows to encompass new kinds of objects.  But it's also important to
look at how self-authentication is actually implemented.  Nothing here is
absolute.  What we have is a shift of the burden of proof.  In general, to
introduce a document as evidence, the introducer has to provide some
proof that the document is what it purports to be.  No such proof is
required for self-authenticating documents.  Instead, the burden shifts to
the opposing console to offer proof that the document is *not* what it
purports to be.  This is as far as the courts will ever be willing to go.

-- Jerry

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Re: Repudiating non-repudiation

2003-12-29 Thread robin benson
On 29 Dec 2003, at 19:29, Paul A.S. Ward wrote:

This first case is actually quite amusing.  I was recently the subject 
of identity theft.
Specifically, the thieves had my SSN (SIN, actually, since it is in 
Canada), and my
driver's licence number.  They produced a fake driver's licence, and 
used it to open
bank accounts in my name.  When this all came to light, the bank 
wanted a notarized
document that said that I did not open these accounts or know anything 
about them.
And what was required for notarization?  I had to go to city hall and 
get someone
who had never met me before to look at my photo ID (which was my 
drivers licence)
and sign the form saying it was me!  Great system!
A friend of mine went through the same city hall process in the US, 
although for a different reason (still in the context of proof of 
identity) and was given a dot-matrix printout which was then considered 
good enough for somebody else who had previously declared a current 
passport as falling short of the mark.

Robin
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Repudiating non-repudiation

2003-12-28 Thread Ian Grigg
In response to Ed and Amir,

I have to agree with Carl here and stress that the
issue is not that the definition is bad or whatever,
but the word is simply out of place.  Repudiation is
an act of a human being.  So is the denial of that
or any other act, to take a word from Ed's 1st definition.

We can actually learn a lot more from the legal world
here, in how they solve this dilemma.  Apologies in
advance, as what follows is my untrained understanding,
derived from a legal case I was involved with in
recent years [1].  It is an attempt to show why the
use of the word repudiation will never help us and
will always hinder us.



The (civil) courts resolve disputes.  They do *not*
make contracts right, or tell wrong-doers to do the
right thing, as is commonly thought.

Dispute resolution by definition starts out with a
dispute, of course.  That dispute, for sake of argument,
is generally grounded in a denial, or a repudiation.

One party - a person - repudiates a contract or a
bill or a something.

So, one might think that it would be in the courts'
interest to reduce the number of repudiations.  Quite
the reverse - the courts bend over backwards, sideways,
and tie themselves in knots to permit and encourage
repudiations.  In general, the rule is that anyone
can file *anything* into a court.

The notion of non-repudiation is thus anathema to
the courts.  From a legal point of view, we, the
crypto community, will never make headway if we use
this term [2].  What terms we should use, I suggest
below, but to see that, we need to get the whole
process of the courts in focus.



Courts encourage repudiations so as to encourage
all the claims to get placed in front of the forum
[3].  The full process that is then used to resolve
the dispute is:

   1. filing of claims, a.k.a. pleadings.
   2. presentation of evidence
   3. application of law to the evidence
   4. a reasoned ruling on 1 is delivered based on 2,3

Now, here's where cryptographer's have made the
mistake that has led us astray.  In the mind of a
cryptographer, a statement is useless if it cannot
be proven beyond a shred of doubt.

The courts don't operate that way - and neither does
real life.  In this, it is the cryptographers that
are the outsiders [4].

What the courts do is to encourage the presentation
of all evidence, even the bad stuff.  (That's what
hearings are, the presentation of evidence.)

Then, the law is applied - and this means that each
piece of evidence is measured and filtered and
rated.  It is mulled over, tested, probed, and
brought into relationship with all the other pieces
of evidence.

Unlike no-risk cryptography, there isn't such a
thing as bad evidence.  There is, instead, strong
evidence and weak evidence.  There is stuff that
is hard to ignore, and stuff that doesn't add
much. But, even the stuff that adds little is not
discriminated against, at least in the early phases.



And this is where the cryptography field can help:
a digital signature, prima facea, is just another
piece of evidence.  In the initial presentation of
evidence, it is neither weak nor strong.

It is certainly not non-repudiable.  What it is
is another input to be processed.  The digsig is
as good as all the others, first off.  Later on,
it might become stronger or weaker, depending.

We, cryptographers, help by assisting in the
process of determining the strength of the
evidence.  We can do it in, I think, three ways:



Firstly, the emphasis should switch from the notion
of non-repudiation to the strength of evidence.  A
digital signature is evidence - our job as crypto
guys is to improve the strength of that evidence,
with an eye to the economic cost of that strength,
of course.

Secondly, any piece of evidence will, we know, be
scrutinised by the courts, and assessed for its
strength.  So, we can help the process of dispute
resolution by clearly laying out the assumptions
and tests that can be applied.  In advance.  In
as accessible a form as we know how.

For example, a simple test might be that a
receipt is signed validly if:

   a. the receipt has a valid hash,
   b. that hash is signed by a private key,
   c. the signature is verified by a public
  key, paired with that private key

Now, as cryptographers, we can see problems,
which we can present as caveats, beyond the
strict statement that the receipt has a valid
signature from the signing key:

   d. the public key has been presented by
  the signing party (person) as valid
  for the purpose of receipts
   e. the signing party has not lost the
  private key
   f. the signature was made based on best
  and honest intents...

That's where it gets murky.  But, the proper
place to deal with these murky issues is in
the courts.  We can't solve those issues in
the code, and we shouldn't try.  What we should
do is instead surface all the assumptions we
make, and list out the areas where further
care is needed.

Thirdly, we can create protocols that bear
in mind the concept of