Re: [Cryptography] Gilmore response to NSA mathematician's make rules for NSA appeal

2013-09-28 Thread james hughes
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/27/opinion/have-a-nice-day-nsa.html On Sep 25, 2013, at 3:14 PM, John Kelsey crypto@gmail.com wrote: Right now, there is a lot of interest in finding ways to avoid NSA surveillance. In particular, Germans and Brazilians and Koreans would presumably rather

Re: [Cryptography] Gilmore response to NSA mathematician's make rules for NSA appeal

2013-09-28 Thread Stephen Farrell
On 09/27/2013 05:30 AM, james hughes wrote: The thing that this list can effect is the creation of standards with a valuable respect for Moore's law and increases of mathematical understanding. Stated differently, just enough security is the problem. This past attitude did not respect the

Re: [Cryptography] Gilmore response to NSA mathematician's make rules for NSA appeal

2013-09-25 Thread Kelly John Rose
On 23/09/2013 3:45 PM, John Kelsey wrote: It needs to be in their business interest to convince you that they *can't* betray you in most ways. This is the most important element, and legislation that states you cannot share that information won't be enough, especially since the NSLs have

Re: [Cryptography] Gilmore response to NSA mathematician's make rules for NSA appeal

2013-09-25 Thread james hughes
Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n’ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte. On Sep 23, 2013, at 12:45 PM, John Kelsey crypto@gmail.com wrote: On Sep 18, 2013, at 3:27 PM, Kent Borg kentb...@borg.org wrote: You foreigners actually have a really big vote here. It

Re: [Cryptography] Gilmore response to NSA mathematician's make rules for NSA appeal

2013-09-25 Thread John Kelsey
On Sep 25, 2013, at 2:52 AM, james hughes hugh...@mac.com wrote: Many, if not all, service providers can provide the government valuable information regarding their customers. This is not limited to internet service providers. It includes banks, health care providers, insurance companies,

Re: [Cryptography] Gilmore response to NSA mathematician's make rules for NSA appeal

2013-09-25 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 12:30:40PM -0400, Kelly John Rose wrote: If Google, or other similar businesses want to convince people to store data in the cloud, they need to set up methods where the data is encrypted or secured before it is even provided to them using keys which That would

Re: [Cryptography] Gilmore response to NSA mathematician's make rules for NSA appeal

2013-09-25 Thread Anne Lynn Wheeler
We had been asked to come in and help wordsmith the cal. state digital signature act. Several of the parties were involved in privacy issues and also working on Cal. data breach notification act and Cal. opt-in personal information sharing act. The parties had done extensive public surveys on

Re: [Cryptography] Gilmore response to NSA mathematician's make rules for NSA appeal

2013-09-24 Thread John Kelsey
On Sep 18, 2013, at 3:27 PM, Kent Borg kentb...@borg.org wrote: You foreigners actually have a really big vote here. All those US internet companies want your business, and as you get no protections, in the current scheme, not even lip-service, you should look for alternatives. As you do,

Re: [Cryptography] Gilmore response to NSA mathematician's make rules for NSA appeal

2013-09-18 Thread Walter van Holst
On 18/09/2013 01:50, John Gilmore wrote: Re Big Data: I have never seen data that could be abused by someone who didn't have a copy of it. My first line of defense of privacy is to deny copies of that data to those who would collect it and later use it against me. This is exactly the policy

Re: [Cryptography] Gilmore response to NSA mathematician's make rules for NSA appeal

2013-09-18 Thread Kent Borg
On 09/18/2013 01:31 PM, Walter van Holst wrote: What makes me a tad bitter is that we apparantly live in a world with two classes: US citizens and the subhuman rest of it. NSA-style blanket surveillance violates the fundamental right to privacy and ultimately also the fundamental right to

Re: [Cryptography] Gilmore response to NSA mathematician's make rules for NSA appeal

2013-09-18 Thread Peter Gutmann
Walter van Holst walter.van.ho...@xs4all.nl writes: These are not rights that are solely vested in the exceptional Americans. The Bill of Tights [...] For people unfamiliar with this one, it's the bit that reads: Congress shall make no law respecting the wearing of hosiery, or prohibiting

[Cryptography] Gilmore response to NSA mathematician's make rules for NSA appeal

2013-09-17 Thread John Gilmore
Re: http://www.zdnet.com/nsa-cryptanalyst-we-too-are-americans-720689/ In his Big Data argument, NSA analyst Roger Barkan carefully skips over the question of what rules there should be for government *collecting* big data, claiming that what matters are the rules for how the data is used,