Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption/GNU Radio

2003-09-11 Thread Barry Wels
Actually, patenting the method isn't nearly as silly as it sounds. Produced in quantity, a device to break GSM using this attack is not going to cost much more than a cellphone (without subsidies). Patenting the attack prevents the production of the radio shack (tm) gsm scanner, so that it at

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-10 Thread bear
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Dave Emery wrote: Just to amplify this a bit, does anyone seriously think the NSA's satellite and embassy based cellphone interception capability is primarily targeted against - US - GSM calls ? Or that they can routinely get warrants to listen in using the wired

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-09 Thread John Gilmore
See their paper at CRYPTO 2003 for more details. I am disappointed that you seem to be criticizing their work before even reading their paper. I encourage you to read the paper -- it really is interesting. OK, then, where is it? I looked on: www.iacr.org under Crypto 2003 -- no papers

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-09 Thread David Wagner
Vin McLellan wrote: A5/2 was the equivalent of 40-bit DES, presumed to be relatively weak and developed as an export standard. Yeah. Except it would be more accurate to place A5/2's strength as roughly equivalent to 17-bit DES. A5/1's strength is roughly equivalent to that of 40-bit DES. Of

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-09 Thread David Wagner
One point your analysis misses is that there are public policy implications to deploying a phone system that enemy countries can routinely intercept. Not all attacks are financially motivated. Is it a good thing for our infrastructure to be so insecure? Do we want other countries listening to

RE: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread Olle Mulmo
- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Honig Sent: den 8 september 2003 02:18 To: R. A. Hettinga; Clippable Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption A copy of the research was sent to GSM authorities in order to correct the problem

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread Greg Rose
At 05:18 PM 9/7/2003 -0700, David Honig wrote: A copy of the research was sent to GSM authorities in order to correct the problem, and the method is being patented so that in future it can be used by the law enforcement agencies. Laughing my ass off. Since when do governments care about patents?

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread Greg Rose
At 11:43 AM 9/8/2003 -0400, Anton Stiglic wrote: I think this is different however. The recent attack focused on the A5/3 encryption algorithm, while the work of Lucky, Briceno, Goldberg, Wagner, Biryukov, Shamir (and others?) was on A5/1 and A5/2 (and other crypto algorithms of GSM, such as

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread Steve Schear
At 02:37 AM 9/9/2003 +1000, Greg Rose wrote: At 05:18 PM 9/7/2003 -0700, David Honig wrote: A copy of the research was sent to GSM authorities in order to correct the problem, and the method is being patented so that in future it can be used by the law enforcement agencies. Laughing my ass off.

RE: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread Trei, Peter
David Honig[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 02:37 AM 9/9/03 +1000, Greg Rose wrote: At 05:18 PM 9/7/2003 -0700, David Honig wrote: Laughing my ass off. Since when do governments care about patents? How would this help/harm them from exploiting it? Not that high-end LEOs haven't already

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread Ian Grigg
Trei, Peter wrote: Why the heck would a government agency have to break the GSM encryption at all? Once upon a time, it used to be the favourite sport of spy agencies to listen in on the activities of other countries. In that case, access to the radio waves was much more juicy than access to

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread Bill Stewart
Trei, Peter wrote: Why the heck would a government agency have to break the GSM encryption at all? The encryption is only on the airlink, and all GSM calls travel through the POTS land line system in the clear, where they are subject to warranted wiretaps. Breaking GSM is only of useful if you

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread David Wagner
John Doe Number Two wrote: It's nice to see someone 'discovering' what Lucky Green already figured-out years ago. I wonder if they'll cut him a check. No, no, no! This is new work, novel and different from what was previously known. In my opinion, it is an outstanding piece of research.

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread David Wagner
Trei, Peter wrote: Why the heck would a government agency have to break the GSM encryption at all? Well, one reason might be if that government agency didn't have lawful authorization from the country where the call takes place. (say, SIGINT on GSM calls made in Libya) Another might be if the

RE: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread Steve Schear
At 05:04 PM 9/8/2003 -0400, Trei, Peter wrote: David Honig[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 02:37 AM 9/9/03 +1000, Greg Rose wrote: much more than a cellphone (without subsidies). Patenting the attack prevents the production of the radio shack (tm) gsm scanner, so that it at least requires

RE: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread Vin McLellan
At 05:04 PM 9/8/03 , Trei, Peter wrote: Why the heck would a government agency have to break the GSM encryption at all? The encryption is only on the airlink, and all GSM calls travel through the POTS land line system in the clear, where they are subject to warranted wiretaps. A government

RE: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread David Honig
At 05:04 PM 9/8/03 -0400, Trei, Peter wrote: Why the heck would a government agency have to break the GSM encryption at all? The encryption is only on the airlink, and all GSM calls travel through the POTS land line system in the clear, where they are subject to warranted wiretaps. Breaking GSM

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-08 Thread Dave Emery
On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 09:55:41PM +, David Wagner wrote: Trei, Peter wrote: Why the heck would a government agency have to break the GSM encryption at all? Well, one reason might be if that government agency didn't have lawful authorization from the country where the call takes place.

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-07 Thread John Doe Number Two
It's nice to see someone 'discovering' what Lucky Green already figured-out years ago. I wonder if they'll cut him a check. -JD, II Also sprach R. A. Hettinga aka [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07.9.03 14:32 : http://www.israel21c.org/bin/en.jsp?enPage=BlankPageenDisplay=viewenDispWha

Re: Code breakers crack GSM cellphone encryption

2003-09-07 Thread David Honig
At 03:32 PM 9/7/03 -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote: If the cellphone companies in 197 countries want to correct the code errors that expose them to trickery and abuse, they will have to call in each customer to make a change in the cellphone's programming, or replace all of the cellular phones used by