Re: survey of instant messaging privacy

2008-06-11 Thread alex
[Moderator's note: Please don't send giant run on paragraphs to the
list. They're hard to read. --Perry]

 From: Marcos el Ruptor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Interesting.  Of course, with the possible exception of Skype, 
  only  the over-the-network part of the communication is 
  protected.  The  IM providers can still give the contents of your 
  communications to  third parties.
 
 As far as I can tell after having reverse engineered its protocol,  
 Skype is actually very well made with a few exceptions that would  
 still be next to impossible to exploit for a street hacker (and 

A year ago when I took a hard look at the Skype login protocol (via public 
reverse engineering publications, etc.), I determined that the user id to 
public key binding was fundamentally weak.  If I remember correctly they were 
vulnerable to at least one attack, a dictionary attack against a password of a 
user account is possible using the Skype login client-server messages (they 
can't tell you are attacking since the account name and password are hashed 
together in the public key/AES encrypted request and you are using one of the 
well-known 14+ valid Skype public keys).  Their multiple layering of crypto 
obscures things but with software one can automate the building of the login 
request encrypted layers fairly easily.  Once you get a valid user cert from 
the login attack it looks like that account is permanently compromised (I 
didn't see any user cert validity period).  Because of Kerckhoff's principles 
there is really no way Skype can prevent this attack (basically they are using 
the data channel itself to distribute the user certs (with public  private 
auth keys) to then establish an enciphered phone session over it).   They also 
have at least one back door mechanism in place, which could be used to quickly 
compromise a user password.  They allow a user that forgot their password to 
have it reset and sent to their enrollment email address so that a Tier 1 IDS 
like Narus could easily scoop it up (this requires careful social engineering). 
 Also, any SSL traffic to a Skype server can be MITM intercepted (say via a 
Bluecoat ProxySG appliance) using a ICA cert from a major CA vendor (or 
internal corporate CA) and any user passwords could be scooped up that way as 
well.

Thus a retail level wiretap attack against a particular user is quite possible. 
 Having said that because the 14+ private Skype keys are (only?) stored on 
their servers, it does not look like a wholesale attack against the Skype 
system is easy to do (although they did use MD5 in their login algorithm).  
However, given this centralization of Skype keys, they certainly could 
cooperate with any CALEA warrants, etc., by giving police the user certs to be 
wiretapped (which still requires an active MITM during the setup handshake of 
the encrypted channel between the two user end-points).  Of course, if physical 
theft occurs of the 14+ Skype PKI private keys then the whole security ediface 
will collapse.

- Alex


-
The Cryptography Mailing List
Unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Re: survey of instant messaging privacy

2008-06-10 Thread Marcos el Ruptor
Interesting.  Of course, with the possible exception of Skype, only  
the over-the-network part of the communication is protected.  The  
IM providers can still give the contents of your communications to  
third parties.


As far as I can tell after having reverse engineered its protocol,  
Skype is actually very well made with a few exceptions that would  
still be next to impossible to exploit for a street hacker (and with  
only one suspicious thing that looks like a backdoor exploitable only  
by the server and only by whoever knows the preimages to some hard- 
coded MD5 values - it looks like a backdoor, it smells like a  
backdoor, it gotta be a duck). Other than that, peer-to-peer AES-256  
with randomly generated RSA keys is good enough for me.


As OTR has shown, it's not hard to do end-to-end crypto even if you  
don't have direct client connectivity.  Makes one wonder why the  
default clients don't have the functionality :)


Way too much hassle for them having to deal with the government  
agencies demanding access to intercepted communications. It goes for  
all the products developed by large corporations. The general  
attitude is honest people have nothing to hide aggravated by the  
encryption export controls and the Wassenaar Arrangement. While Skype  
was made by Estonians who simply didn't care about any such nonsense.  
So the cheapest way for the NSA to obtain all the Skype's secret keys  
giving them at least some access to the servers and traffic  
obfuscation algorithms was to have a US company pay $4bln for it...  
Well done!


Marcos el Ruptor
http://www.enrupt.com/ - Raising the bar.

-
The Cryptography Mailing List
Unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


survey of instant messaging privacy

2008-06-09 Thread Perry E. Metzger

Also from Declan McCullagh today, a full survey of instant message
service security:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9962106-38.html?part=rsstag=feedsubj=TheIconoclast

-- 
Perry E. Metzger[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
The Cryptography Mailing List
Unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Re: survey of instant messaging privacy

2008-06-09 Thread John Ioannidis

Perry E. Metzger wrote:

Also from Declan McCullagh today, a full survey of instant message
service security:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9962106-38.html?part=rsstag=feedsubj=TheIconoclast



Interesting.  Of course, with the possible exception of Skype, only the 
over-the-network part of the communication is protected.  The IM 
providers can still give the contents of your communications to third 
parties.


As OTR has shown, it's not hard to do end-to-end crypto even if you 
don't have direct client connectivity.  Makes one wonder why the default 
clients don't have the functionality :)


/ji, Pidgin user

-
The Cryptography Mailing List
Unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to [EMAIL PROTECTED]