Re: [cryptography] SSL *was* broken by design

2011-10-03 Thread ianG
On 1/10/11 22:11 PM, William Allen Simpson wrote: I started reading this thread, and then left it alone, and am catching up. It's hard to know where to start, so changing the subject a little. :) On 9/20/11 12:51 PM, ianG wrote: On 20/09/11 01:53 AM, Andy Steingruebl wrote: SSH doesn't

Re: [cryptography] PFS questions (was SSL *was* broken by design)

2011-10-03 Thread Marsh Ray
On 10/02/2011 03:38 AM, Peter Gutmann wrote: Sandy Harrissandyinch...@gmail.com writes: What on Earth were the arguments against it? I'd have thought PFS was a complete no-brainer. Two things, it's computationally very expensive, and most people have no idea what PFS is. There's been one

Re: [cryptography] PFS questions (was SSL *was* broken by design)

2011-10-03 Thread Jon Callas
At the risk of feeding the conspiracy angle, I note that there is only one stream cipher for SSL/TLS (RC4). All the others in common use are CBC modes, with that same predictable IV weakness as IPsec (i.e. BEAST). There are no DHE cipher suites defined for RC4. So if you want PFS, you have

Re: [cryptography] PFS questions (was SSL *was* broken by design)

2011-10-03 Thread Steven Bellovin
Come on. This discussion has descended past whacko, which is where it went once the broken by design discussion started. Quite. I had to point someone at some of these threads today; when it came to this part, I alluded to black helicopters. --Steve Bellovin,

Re: [cryptography] PFS questions (was SSL *was* broken by design)

2011-10-03 Thread James A. Donald
Come on. This discussion has descended past whacko, which is where it went once the broken by design discussion started. On 2011-10-04 9:18 AM, Steven Bellovin wrote: Quite. I had to point someone at some of these threads today; when it came to this part, I alluded to black helicopters.