Re: [cryptography] Looking for earlier proof: no secure channel without previous secure channel

2013-06-07 Thread Natanael
So basically, the way around having one insecure channel is to use so many insecure channels that the same attacker can't control them all. Which IRL means you run around between computers and check if what you published is available under the exact identity/keys you specified, and keep making up

Re: [cryptography] Looking for earlier proof: no secure channel without previous secure channel

2013-06-07 Thread Peter Todd
On Fri, Jun 07, 2013 at 10:02:51AM +0300, ianG wrote: The big example here is of SSL. In v1 it was vulnerable to MITM, which was theoretically claimed to make it 'insecure'. In practice there was no evidence of a threat, and still little real evidence of that precise threat. Fixing the MITM

Re: [cryptography] Looking for earlier proof: no secure channel without previous secure channel

2013-06-07 Thread William Yager
Precisely. You have no way of knowing anything about the alleged identity behind a key without having some form of interaction through a secure channel (like real-world interaction). On Jun 7, 2013, at 3:53 PM, Florian Weimer f...@deneb.enyo.de wrote: Practically speaking, this is true.

Re: [cryptography] Looking for earlier proof: no secure channel without previous secure channel

2013-06-07 Thread William Yager
We're starting to tread into very philosophical territory. I'd argue that users on the Silk Road (sellers especially) are, in fact, authenticated over very informal separate secure channels. One secure channel is that of the Silk Road website itself. By being on the website, it lends some