Re: [cryptography] US Appeals Court upholds right not to decrypt a drive

2012-02-26 Thread Peter Gutmann
Marsh Ray ma...@extendedsubset.com writes: Except that as it is stipulated that the captors are not stupid, we must assume they are perfectly rational actors who will have worked out this strategy too. It's not an exercise in game theory, it's standard police work. If they've watched you

Re: [cryptography] Explaining crypto to engineers

2012-02-26 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ondrej Mikle ondrej.mi...@nic.cz writes: I've just found an article about the OAEP padding oracle (that I couldn't recall before): There's another one that was published about a year ago that looks at things like side-channel attacks via the integer-to-octet-string conversion primitives and

Re: [cryptography] US Appeals Court upholds right not to decrypt a drive

2012-02-26 Thread Peter Gutmann
James A. Donald jam...@echeque.com writes: Hidden compartment? What hidden compartment? If I have one, you are welcome to search it. Go knock yourselves out. James, meet Bertha. Sorry about her cold hands, just give her a minute to get the gloves on. In the meantime if you'll drop your

Re: [cryptography] US Appeals Court upholds right not to decrypt a drive

2012-02-25 Thread Peter Gutmann
Jon Callas j...@callas.org writes: I've spoken to law enforcement and border control people in a country that is not the US, who told me that yeah, they know all about TrueCrypt and their assumption is that *everyone* who has TrueCrypt has a hidden volume and if they find TrueCrypt they just get

Re: [cryptography] US Appeals Court upholds right not to decrypt a drive

2012-02-25 Thread Peter Gutmann
Bill St. Clair billstcl...@gmail.com writes: Which is why the average random geek needs to be reminded, over and over again, that you NEVER talk to the police. Not a word. Ever. If you're feeling kind, write them a note, I don't talk to police. They should leave wondering whether you're mute.

Re: [cryptography] Duplicate primes in lots of RSA moduli

2012-02-17 Thread Peter Gutmann
Adam Back a...@cypherspace.org writes: Further the fact that the entropy seeding is so bad that some implementations are generating literally the same p value (but seemingly different q values) I would think you could view the fact that this can be detected and efficiently exploited via batch GCD

Re: [cryptography] Duplicate primes in lots of RSA moduli

2012-02-15 Thread Peter Gutmann
Michael Nelson nelson_mi...@yahoo.com writes: Paper by Lenstra, Hughes, Augier, Bos, Kleinjung, and Wachter finds that two of every one thousand RSA moduli that they collected from the web offer no security. An astonishing number of generated pairs of primes have a prime in common. The title of

Re: [cryptography] Duplicate primes in lots of RSA moduli

2012-02-15 Thread Peter Gutmann
Alexander Klimov alser...@inbox.ru writes: While the RSA may be easier to break if the entropy during the key *generation* is low, the DSA is easier to break if the entropy during the key *use* is low. Obviously, if you have access only to the public keys, the first issue is more spectacular,

Re: [cryptography] folded SHA1 vs HMAC for entropy extraction

2012-01-04 Thread Peter Gutmann
Thor Lancelot Simon t...@panix.com writes: However, while looking at it I have been wondering why something simpler and better analyzed than the folded SHA should not be used. Folding the output is belt-and-suspenders security, it denies an attacker direct access to the raw output of whatever

Re: [cryptography] CAPTCHA as a Security System?

2012-01-02 Thread Peter Gutmann
Randall Webmail rv...@insightbb.com writes: My neighborhood Wal*Mart has pretty much eliminated cashiers in favor of self-checkouts. Anyone so inclined could walk in, load up a cart, walk up to a self-checkout, check maybe half the items in the cart, pay for them and leave, with no one the wiser

Re: [cryptography] CAPTCHA as a Security System?

2012-01-02 Thread Peter Gutmann
=?UTF-8?Q?lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?= lodewijka...@gmail.com writes: Our cozy dutch supermarkets are trying self-checkout systems themselves. They sometimes check carts with what's scanned. My dad's theory was that people are so afraid to have forgotten that they'd most likely scan their

Re: [cryptography] Password non-similarity?

2011-12-31 Thread Peter Gutmann
Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com writes: On 31 Dec 2011 at 15:30, Steven Bellovin wrote: Yes, ideally people would have a separate, strong password, changed regularly for every site. This is the very question I was asking: *WHY* changed regularly? What threat/vulnerability is addressed by

Re: [cryptography] airgaps in CAs

2011-12-12 Thread Peter Gutmann
Arshad Noor arshad.n...@strongauth.com writes: A TSA is not a CA; it is just another end-entity whose certificate can be revoked, if necessary. This does not necessarily invalidate the signed time-stamps it issued before the revocation date (unless the TSA's CP indicates another

Re: [cryptography] Hi guys, looking for a talanted crypto for an early stage funded bitcoin-related startup.

2011-12-11 Thread Peter Gutmann
John Levine jo...@iecc.com writes: I'm looking for a talanted crypto for an early stage funded bitcoin-related startup, I have to ask: funded with what? I'd actually misread the original post as bitcoin-funded, and thought yeah, that'd be about right :-). Peter.

Re: [cryptography] How are expired code-signing certs revoked?

2011-12-10 Thread Peter Gutmann
Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com writes: On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Jeffrey Walton noloa...@gmail.com wrote: Android also make the application a security principal for resource sharing (its a smarter walled garden approach). Its an awesome approach, especially when compared to Windows

Re: [cryptography] How are expired code-signing certs revoked?

2011-12-10 Thread Peter Gutmann
Jon Callas j...@callas.org writes: If someone actually built such combination of OS and marketplace, it would work for the users very well, but developers would squawk about it. Properly done, it could drop malware rates to close to nil. Oh, developers would do more than squawk about it. Both

Re: [cryptography] How are expired code-signing certs revoked?

2011-12-09 Thread Peter Gutmann
Jon Callas j...@callas.org writes: If it were hard to get signing certs, then we as a community of developers would demonize the practice as having to get a license to code. WHQL is a good analogy for the situations with certificates, it has to be made inclusive enough that people aren't

Re: [cryptography] Another CA hacked, it seems.

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ralph Holz h...@net.in.tum.de writes: As I said, at this rate we shall have statistically meaningful large numbers of CA hacks by 2013: KPN is claiming there's nothing to worry about, please move along:

Re: [cryptography] airgaps in CAs

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Gutmann
Arshad Noor arshad.n...@strongauth.com writes: Every private PKI we have setup since 1999 (more than a dozen, of which a few were for the largest companies in the world) has had the Root CA on a non-networked machine with commensurate controls to protect the CA. What about TSAs, where you need

Re: [cryptography] How are expired code-signing certs revoked?

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Gutmann
d...@geer.org writes: One would assume that the effort to get such a signing certificate would persuade the bad team to use that cert for targeted attacks, not broadcast ones, in which case you would be damned lucky to find it in a place where you could then encapsulate it in a signature-based

Re: [cryptography] Malware-signing certs with 512-bit keys

2011-12-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ondrej Mikle ondrej.mi...@nic.cz writes: It's issued by A-Trust (not A-Data). Well I had to put something in there to validate the Any inadvertent mangling of details was my fault :-). The Hongkong Post certs lack EKU extension, but 'key usage' does not contain 'digital signature'. That makes

Re: [cryptography] How are expired code-signing certs revoked?

2011-12-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
d...@geer.org writes: Another wrinkle, at least as a logic problem, would be whether you can revoke the signing cert for a CRL and what, exactly, would that mean That's actually a known problem (at least to PKI people). So what you're really asking is whether a self-signed root cert can revoke

Re: [cryptography] How are expired code-signing certs revoked?

2011-12-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
Marsh Ray ma...@extendedsubset.com writes: Originally, public key systems were said to possess deliver this property of 'nonrepudiation', meaning a digital signature could effectively authenticate the intent of the party associated with the private key. Uhh, they were never said to deliver this

Re: [cryptography] How are expired code-signing certs revoked?

2011-12-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
ianG i...@iang.org writes: However, if one is relying on an external TTP to time-stamp the digital signature, one can also rely on the TTP to evidence the hash of the document. In which case, the digital signature is not performing any signing task (although it may form a local authentication

Re: [cryptography] How are expired code-signing certs revoked?

2011-12-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
Steven Bellovin s...@cs.columbia.edu writes: Assume that there is some benefit to digitally-signed code. There is at least one very obvious benefit: When malware is signed, it can't mutate on each generation any more but has to remain static. This makes it easier for the anti-malware folks to

Re: [cryptography] How are expired code-signing certs revoked?

2011-12-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
Marsh Ray ma...@extendedsubset.com writes: Apple's iPhone app store code signing is far more effective for example. The effectiveness of that isn't the PKI or the signing though, it's that Apple vets the apps before allowing them in the store. You don't need certs, all you need to do is have

Re: [cryptography] How are expired code-signing certs revoked?

2011-12-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
Marshall Clow mclow.li...@gmail.com writes: This is only true if signing the malware is an expensive (in some terms) proposition. It's certainly not expensive in terms of computing power. The rate-limiting factor is how many certs you can steal, and how quickly. The technology side doesn't

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-12-06 Thread Peter Gutmann
Earlier in the discussion there were questions about why a service provider would want to MITM their customers. This has now been answered by a service provider: It's to protect the children. From http://patrick.seurre.com/?p=42 Three's policy with regards to filtering is intended to

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-12-06 Thread Peter Gutmann
d...@geer.org writes: This is already standard practice for malware-laden sites, to the extent that it's severely affecting things like Google Safe Browsing and Facebook's link scanner, because Google and Facebook always get to see benign content and only the end user gets the malware.

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-12-05 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ondrej Mikle ondrej.mi...@nic.cz writes: Matches my observations, especially when looking at CRLs of some small CAs (company internal). I had a hunch some of those revocations could be due to CA compromise, but from my point of view it is be only a speculation. I appreciate sharing your

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-12-04 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ondrej Mikle ondrej.mi...@nic.cz writes: How do MitM boxes react when they MitM connection to a server with self- signed cert (or cert issued by an obsure CA not trusted by MitM box)? For one example, see

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-12-04 Thread Peter Gutmann
Lucky Green shamr...@cypherpunks.to writes: If the concern is that employees receive security warnings when accessing in- house websites, the standard solution is to push out a corporate root via AD, which is transparent and works quite well. And once they get AD and/or WSUS ported to OS X and

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-12-04 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ondrej Mikle ondrej.mi...@nic.cz writes: Sorry, my bad. Mismatch in my thinking-editing coordination. Originally I wanted to ask whether you encountered a breach that was not over all the news, but a rather localized incident at the places you and Lucky described. Or heard about one from

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-12-04 Thread Peter Gutmann
Sandy Harris sandyinch...@gmail.com writes: I am in China. How could I test whether the Great Firewall's packet sniffers have such a cert.? I'd be kinda surprised if they did that because it's meant to be surreptitious and the Great Firewall isn't exactly a state secret. I'd just use the

Re: [cryptography] if MitM via sub-CA is going on, need a name-and-shame catalog (Re: really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors?)

2011-12-03 Thread Peter Gutmann
ianG i...@iang.org writes: PS; we need a better name than DPI MITM. For some reason I'm thinking of WITM. Given that the whole reason for doing this silly-walk in the first place was to protect us against MITMs, I wouldn't use WITM, I'd call it a WTFITM. Peter.

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-12-02 Thread Peter Gutmann
Adam Back a...@cypherspace.org writes: Start of the thread was that Greg and maybe others claim they've seen a cert in the wild doing MitM on domains the definitionally do NOT own. It's not just a claim, I've seen them too. For example I have a cert issued for google.com from such a MITM proxy.

Re: [cryptography] if MitM via sub-CA is going on, need a name-and-shame catalog (Re: really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors?)

2011-12-02 Thread Peter Gutmann
Adam Back a...@cypherspace.org writes: a public MitM proxy? Or a corporate LAN. Private organisation. That intermediate CA needs publishing, and the CA that issued it. I was asked not to reveal details and I won't, but in any case I don't know whether it would achieve much. For the case of

Re: [cryptography] if MitM via sub-CA is going on, need a name-and-shame catalog (Re: really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors?)

2011-12-02 Thread Peter Gutmann
Adam Back a...@cypherspace.org writes: [WAP wildcard certs] That is bad. Are you saying there is anyone doing SSL mitm for stream compression reasons? Who? The use of wildard certs in WAP gateways came up from the SSL Observatory work... hmm, there's at least a mention of it in An Observatory

Re: [cryptography] if MitM via sub-CA is going on, need a name-and-shame catalog (Re: really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors?)

2011-12-02 Thread Peter Gutmann
Adam Back a...@cypherspace.org writes: I wonder what that even means. *.com issued by a sub-CA? that private key is a massive risk if so! I wonder if a *.com is even valid according to browsers. Or * that would be funny. No idea, but remember that it's not general-purpose browsers, it's

Re: [cryptography] Newbie Question

2011-12-01 Thread Peter Gutmann
Randall Webmail rv...@insightbb.com writes: What is the proper thing to do when one of those things pops up? (It is NOT a rare event). Go to the security settings dialog in your browser, go to Export certificate (or whatever your browser uses), select Certificate chain / PKCS #7, and then post

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-12-01 Thread Peter Gutmann
Marsh Ray ma...@extendedsubset.com writes: Certificate Authority (CA) to Chain to GeoTrust's Ubiquitous Public Root [...] SAN FRANCISCO, RSA CONFERENCE, Feb. 14 February of which year? If it's from this year then they're really late to the party, commercial CAs have been doing this for

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-12-01 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ben Laurie b...@links.org writes: They appear to actually be selling sub-RA functionality, but very hard to tell from the press release. OK, so it does appear that people seem genuinely unaware of both the fact that this goes on, and the scale at which it happens. Here's how it works: 1. Your

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-11-30 Thread Peter Gutmann
Nathan Loofbourrow njl...@gmail.com writes: On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Rose, Greg g...@qualcomm.com wrote: On 2011 Nov 30, at 16:44 , Adam Back wrote: Are there really any CAs which issue sub-CA for deep packet inspection aka doing MitM and issue certs on the fly for everything

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-11-30 Thread Peter Gutmann
ianG i...@iang.org writes: Is this in anyway a cause for action in contract? Is this a caused for revocation? And given that you have to ask the MITM for the revocation information, how would you revoke such a cert? And that was Why blacklists suck for validity checks, reason #872 in a series

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-11-30 Thread Peter Gutmann
ianG i...@iang.org writes: On 1/12/11 15:10 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote: ianGi...@iang.org writes: Is this in anyway a cause for action in contract? Is this a caused for revocation? And given that you have to ask the MITM for the revocation information, how would you revoke such a cert? Wait

Re: [cryptography] really sub-CAs for MitM deep packet inspectors? (Re: Auditable CAs)

2011-11-30 Thread Peter Gutmann
Jon Callas j...@callas.org writes: And I presume you didn't save the cert. Of course, we just need to have people look for these and then save them. Cert *chain*, not cert. Save as PKCS #7/Certificate Chain from the browser dialog. Peter. ___

Re: [cryptography] 512-bit certs used in attack

2011-11-28 Thread Peter Gutmann
Marsh Ray ma...@extendedsubset.com writes: On 11/27/2011 09:57 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote: Unfortunately this doesn't explain how they go the 1024-bit and longer keys that were also used in the attack. Is that true? I haven't seen this reported. Link? Off-list :-). Oh, wait a minute, there's

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-28 Thread Peter Gutmann
Steven Bellovin s...@cs.columbia.edu writes: I'm writing something where part of the advice is don't buy snake oil crypto, get the good stuff. I wrote about this back in 2002 in Lessons Learned in Implementing and Deploying Crypto Software, we've gone from straight snake oil to second- order

Re: [cryptography] reply-to theology, was Non-governmental

2011-11-28 Thread Peter Gutmann
John Levine jo...@iecc.com writes: It's a theological issue. Some people like it, some people hate it, no amount of arguing has ever made anyone change his mind about it. In superior list software such as majordomo2, it's a configurable per-user option. In superior mail client software like

Re: [cryptography] Declassified NSA Tech Journals

2011-11-27 Thread Peter Gutmann
Particularly interesting is Some Principles of Cryptographic Security - Summer 1974 - Vol. XIX, No. 3, sort of an updated/revisited version of the oft-quoted Kerckhoffs's principles. Peter. ___ cryptography mailing list cryptography@randombit.net

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Peter Gutmann
Landon Hurley ljrhur...@gmail.com writes: So would the recent $200 hardware break of hdmi encryption. HDCP was a social, political, and economic fail, not necessarily a crypto fail. I certainly don't want to denigrate the work that the guys the the Ruhr Uni did, but you've been able to buy

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Peter Gutmann
Marsh Ray ma...@extendedsubset.com writes: * Here's an example of RSA-512 certificates being factored and used to sign malware: http://blog.fox-it.com/2011/11/21/rsa-512-certificates-abused-in-the-wild/ That's an example of *claims* of 512-bit keys being factored, with the thinking being

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Peter Gutmann
Steven Bellovin s...@cs.columbia.edu writes: Does anyone know of any (verifiable) examples of non-government enemies exploiting flaws in cryptography? Could you be a bit more precise about what flaws in cryptography covers? If you mean exploiting bad or incorrect implementations of crypto then

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Peter Gutmann
Solar Designer so...@openwall.com writes: Here are some examples of 512-bit RSA keys factored: Right, but that doesn't say anything about what happened here. In every other case we know of in which malware has been signed by CA-issued certs, the keys were either stolen or, more rarely, bought

Re: [cryptography] fyi: The weakest link in the chain: Vulnerabilities in the SSL certificate authority system and what should be done about them

2011-11-22 Thread Peter Gutmann
JeffH jeff.hod...@kingsmountain.com writes: Of possible interest: The weakest link in the chain: Vulnerabilities in the SSL certificate authority system and what should be done about them It's not just NGOs that are seeing that browser PKI is the weakest link in the chain. I was recently told

Re: [cryptography] ECDSA - patent free?

2011-11-09 Thread Peter Gutmann
Jack Lloyd ll...@randombit.net writes: For some reason RH legal seems especially frightened of crypto patents; it's not like dozens of features of gcc, the kernel, etc aren't covered by patents. They may just be choosing where to fight their battles. If adaptive source routing (affecting all

Re: [cryptography] -currently available- crypto cards with onboard key storage

2011-10-28 Thread Peter Gutmann
Martin Paljak mar...@martinpaljak.net writes: Taking into account the original request of getting something off-the-shelf for PGP uses, this demand basically just rules out GnuPG for some users and use cases. At the risk of slight self-promotion, cryptlib,

Re: [cryptography] -currently available- crypto cards with onboard key storage

2011-10-27 Thread Peter Gutmann
Alfonso De Gregorio a...@crypto.lo.gy writes: For a past project, I've been engineering a cryptographic appliance running with Bull TrustWay CC2000 http://support.bull.com/ols/product/security/trustway/c2000/cc2000.html It is a full-length PCI with on-board key storage. Can you provide a bit

Re: [cryptography] validating SSL cert chains timestamps

2011-10-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
travis+ml-rbcryptogra...@subspacefield.org writes: If we assume that the lifetime of the cert is there to limit its window of vulnerability to factoring, brute force, and other attacks against computational security properties, Which only occurs in textbooks. It's probably not necessary to

Re: [cryptography] Nirvana

2011-09-23 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ben Laurie b...@links.org writes: Wasn't that what SET did? No. Or at least buried way, way down in a hidden corner there was something that was a bit like that, sort of like painting one of the toenails on an elephant, but the vast mass of the rest overwhelmed that one bit. Peter.

Re: [cryptography] Security Pop-Up of the Day

2011-09-22 Thread Peter Gutmann
ianG i...@iang.org writes: C.f., revocation is broken. The disablement of OCSP checking has been ... e widely suggested. Which leads to a curious puzzler; if it doesn't work for users, who does it work for? Ah, the cynicism :P There are a number of revocation vendors who have (or had, a

Re: [cryptography] SSL is not broken by design

2011-09-22 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ben Laurie b...@links.org writes: Well, don't tease. How? The link I've posted before (but didn't want to keep spamming to the list): http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/pki_risk.pdf Peter. ___ cryptography mailing list

Re: [cryptography] Another data point on SSL trusted root CA reliability (S Korea)

2011-09-19 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ralph Holz h...@net.in.tum.de writes: I am wondering if we can't get our hands on such a router and do a proof-of- concept. Anyone in? In terms of warkitting routers, they're pretty much all vulnerable [0], so all you'd need to do after that is exploit the CA certs. OTOH if you can warkit a

Re: [cryptography] Math corrections

2011-09-19 Thread Peter Gutmann
James A. Donald jam...@echeque.com writes: The peers who do the peer reviewing for IDtrust, are not peers at all, but high priests who review for doctrinal conformity to the consensus of the the most holy synod, I know you meant that tongue-in-cheek, but in some cases it's frighteningly close

Re: [cryptography] Another data point on SSL trusted root CA reliability (S Korea)

2011-09-19 Thread Peter Gutmann
Randall Webmail rv...@insightbb.com writes: Does this warkitting require physical access to the router? No, it's all remotely done. (This is why I have two different routers from different vendors between me and the public internet, and have had this setup for about a decade now). Peter.

Re: [cryptography] Another data point on SSL trusted root CA reliability (S Korea)

2011-09-18 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ralph Holz h...@net.in.tum.de writes: In the EFF dataset of the full IPv4 space, I find 773,512 such certificates. Could these be from the bizarro Korean DIY PKI (the NPKI) that they've implemented? Could you post (or email) some of the certs? Peter.

Re: [cryptography] SSL is not broken by design

2011-09-18 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ian G i...@iang.org writes: When it came to actual failures ... they are silent. Still. But they love their merry-go-round :) There are ways to get off the merry-go-round. I've now put the slides for the talk I'd mentioned last week, that I did at EuroPKI, up at

Re: [cryptography] Math corrections

2011-09-18 Thread Peter Gutmann
Arshad Noor arshad.n...@strongauth.com writes: Just because you come across one compromised CA out of 100 in the browser, does not imply that the remaining 99 are compromised (which is what you are implying with your statement). Since browser PKI uses universal implicit cross-certification, it

Re: [cryptography] Math corrections

2011-09-18 Thread Peter Gutmann
Arshad Noor arshad.n...@strongauth.com writes: Rather than shoot from the hip, the logical way to propose a solution would be to write a paper on it and submit it to IDTrust 2012 for discussion. If it is selected, it will have the merit of having been reviewed and deemed worthy of discussion.

Re: [cryptography] The consequences of DigiNotar's failure

2011-09-17 Thread Peter Gutmann
M.R. makro...@gmail.com writes: No one actively working against a government that is known to engage in extra-legal killings will trust SSL secured e-mail to protect him or her from the government surveillance. That's a non-sequitur. What you're saying is that no-one working in an environment

Re: [cryptography] Let's go back to the beginning on this

2011-09-16 Thread Peter Gutmann
Marsh Ray ma...@extendedsubset.com writes: The CAs can each fail on you independently. Each one is a potential weakest link in the chain that the Relying Party's security hangs from. So their reliability statistics multiply: one CA: 0.99 = 99% reliability two CAs: 0.99*0.99 = 98%

Re: [cryptography] [SSL Observatory] After the dust settles -- what happens next? (v. Long)

2011-09-12 Thread Peter Gutmann
Paul Hoffman paul.hoff...@vpnc.org writes: We don't all observe that. Some of us observe a third, more likely approach: nothing significant happens due to this event. The collapse of faith is only among the security folks whose faith was never there in the first place. A week after the event, who

Re: [cryptography] [SSL Observatory] PKI fixes that don't fix PKI (part II)

2011-09-10 Thread Peter Gutmann
Lucky Green shamr...@cypherpunks.to writes: Moreover, I noticed that some posts list one or more desirable properties and requirements together with a proposed solution. That's the nice thing about PKI, there's more than enough fail to go around. Everyone gets to fix their own particular bit

Re: [cryptography] Diginotar Lessons Learned (long)

2011-09-10 Thread Peter Gutmann
Lucky Green shamr...@cypherpunks.to writes: We are also seeing a near universal call for fixes of the broken PKI paradigm. I couldn't agree more that fixes - and indeed redesigns - are badly needed and have been for some 15+ years. Pretty much since the day the word PKI was coined. What I hear

Re: [cryptography] Diginotar Lessons Learned (long)

2011-09-10 Thread Peter Gutmann
Andy Steingruebl a...@steingruebl.com writes: Got a prioritized list? I'll tell you what I'm doing about them. Quite seriously actually... See my off-list reply (it's my earlier ref to the EuroPKI talk again :-), I'll post the slides next week when I've done the talk. Actually, figuring out

Re: [cryptography] Diginotar Lessons Learned (long)

2011-09-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ian G i...@iang.org writes: Hence, the well-known race-to-the-bottom, which is a big factor in DigiNotar. Actually I'm not sure that DigiNotar was the bottom, since they seem to have been somewhat careful about the certs they issued. The bottom is the cert vending machines that will issue a

Re: [cryptography] Diginotar Lessons Learned (long)

2011-09-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
Marsh Ray ma...@extendedsubset.com writes: Do we need then a whole spectrum of Super Validation, Hyper Validation, and Ludicrous Validation to address the ridiculous deficiencies found in these current pwned EV CAs? It has been suggested that we need a kind of meta-CA or CA for CAs (CACA). Then

Re: [cryptography] GlobalSign temporarily ceases issuance of all certificates

2011-09-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
Marsh Ray ma...@extendedsubset.com writes: He wants credit for saving the world from PKI! He should get it. A number of security practitioners have been trying to tell the world for more than a decade that this stuff, you know, doesn't actually, well, work. Whoever's behind this has now made

Re: [cryptography] GlobalSign temporarily ceases issuance of all certificates

2011-09-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ian G i...@iang.org writes: It is not a new observation that the original threat modelling had flaws you could drive a truck through :) You forgot to mention what the SSL/browser PKI threat model actually is, as first pointed out by some guy called Grigg: SSL/browser PKI is defined to be

Re: [cryptography] Diginotar broken arrow as a tour-de-force of PKI fail

2011-09-06 Thread Peter Gutmann
[Responding to the same three lists as before, please trim followups if you feel it's off-topic] In response to my earlier OCSP is unfixably broken, by design comments, a couple of people have responded off-list with variants of OK smartypants, how would you do it better?. In order to provide a

Re: [cryptography] An appropriate image from Diginotar

2011-09-02 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ralph Holz h...@net.in.tum.de writes: I have some values from our own scans - scans conducted against hosts on the Alexa Top 1M list. Given that that particular Diginotar CA had only issued around 700 certs in total, that means a significant fraction (at least a quarter, depending on how many

Re: [cryptography] *.google.com certificate issued by DigiNotar

2011-09-01 Thread Peter Gutmann
[NB: CC'd to the randombit cryptography list, since this is an interesting point for discussion]. Ian G i...@iang.org writes: What we'll likely see now is a series of breaches at multiple levels to acquire and misuse certs. We've seen compromises in the past, but what makes this new is

[cryptography] An appropriate image from Diginotar

2011-08-30 Thread Peter Gutmann
http://www.diginotar.com/Portals/0/Skins/DigiNotar_V7_COM/image/home/headerimage/image01.png The guy in the background must have removed his turban/taqiyah for the photo. Peter. ___ cryptography mailing list cryptography@randombit.net

Re: [cryptography] Smart card with external pinpad

2011-08-19 Thread Peter Gutmann
Bob Lloyd boblloyd8...@yahoo.com writes: Has anyone performed an analysis of the security of any of the available smart card reader/external pin pad solutions?  Are they effective at keeping the pin from being accessible at the host to which the reader is connected? Does anyone have any

Re: [cryptography] Military chip crypto cracked with power-analysis probe

2011-07-27 Thread Peter Gutmann
Jeffrey Walton noloa...@gmail.com writes: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/27/chip_crypto_cracked/ That's a really, really misleading tagline. They've successfully attacked the bitstream encryption for Xilinx FPGAs, and while some of those are used by the military, they're also used in

Re: [cryptography] preventing protocol failings

2011-07-13 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ralph Holz h...@net.in.tum.de writes: The question, after all, is how often do you really read the SSH warnings? How often do you just type on or retry or press accept? What if you're the admin who encounters this maybe 2-3 times day? The August (I think) issue of ;login, the Usenix magazine (

Re: [cryptography] ssh-keys only and EKE for web too (Re: preventing protocol failings)

2011-07-13 Thread Peter Gutmann
Adam Back a...@cypherspace.org writes: EKE for web login is decades overdue and if implemented and deployed properly in the browser and server could pretty much wipe out phishing attacks on passwords. We have source code for apache, mozilla, maybe could persuade google; and perhaps microsoft and

Re: [cryptography] preventing protocol failings

2011-07-13 Thread Peter Gutmann
Andy Steingruebl a...@steingruebl.com writes: The way it for for everyone I knew that went through it was: 1. Sniffing was sort of a problem, but most people didn't care 2. Telnet was quite a bit of a pain, especially when using NAT, and wanting to do X11 forwarding 3. Typing in your password

Re: [cryptography] preventing protocol failings

2011-07-13 Thread Peter Gutmann
Andy Steingruebl a...@steingruebl.com writes: Hmm, do you know that many sysadmins outside high-security conscious areas that really cared about typing the root password over telnet, especially back in 1997? I don't. Academia and banks cared, and often deployed things like securid or OPIE/SKEY

Re: [cryptography] ssh-keys only and EKE for web too (Re: preventing protocol failings)

2011-07-13 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ian G i...@iang.org writes: Microsoft have a big interest in bypassing the status quo, and they've tried several times. But each time it isn't for the benefit of the users, more for their own benefit, in that they've tried to rebuild the security infrastructure with themselves in control.

Re: [cryptography] preventing protocol failings

2011-07-09 Thread Peter Gutmann
Zooko O'Whielacronx zo...@zooko.com writes: Hm, digging around in my keepsakes cabinet, I unfortunately do not find the original state transition diagram that I mentioned above, but I do find an artifact that I wrote a few months later=E2=80=94a sketch of a protocol that I called ZRTP lite which

Re: [cryptography] cryptography Digest, Vol 17, Issue 13

2011-07-09 Thread Peter Gutmann
Matthijs R. Koot k...@uva.nl writes: A low-complexity alternative to SSH seems useful and might perhaps allow validation by formal methods... Funny you should mention that, I suggested this to someone recently because it's something that's never been formally analysed and is likely an easy

Re: [cryptography] preventing protocol failings

2011-07-07 Thread Peter Gutmann
Sampo Syreeni de...@iki.fi writes: To my mind the difference seemed to be about shallow versus deep parsing. You can't really deep parse anything in BER with implicit tagging, You can deep-parse, you just need to apply some basic heuristics (e.g. if it's an octet string and the first byte is

Re: [cryptography] preventing protocol failings

2011-07-06 Thread Peter Gutmann
Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com writes: On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:06 AM, Peter Gutmann pgut...@cs.auckland.ac.nz wrote: (The ASN.1 filter I mentioned earlier is a stripped-down version of dumpasn1. Remember that dataset of 400K broken certs that NISCC generated a few years ago

Re: [cryptography] preventing protocol failings

2011-07-06 Thread Peter Gutmann
I wrote: BER and DER are actually the safest encodings of the major security protocols I work with. Based on the following, which just appeared on another list: In contrast to RFC 5280, X.509 does not require DER encoding. It only requires that the signature is generated across a DER

Re: [cryptography] preventing protocol failings

2011-07-05 Thread Peter Gutmann
coderman coder...@gmail.com writes: H3 should be Gospel: There is Only One Mode and it is Secure Also known as Grigg's Law. The corollary, for protocols where there *are* options, is There is one one cipher suite and that is Suite #1. Peter. ___

Re: [cryptography] preventing protocol failings

2011-07-05 Thread Peter Gutmann
Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com writes: Why even have a tag?? The ASN.1 Packed Encoding Rules (think ONC XDR with 1- byte alignment instead of 4-byte alignment) doesn't use tags at all. Which makes them impossible to statically check, and leads to hellishly complex decoders. In

Re: [cryptography] preventing protocol failings

2011-07-05 Thread Peter Gutmann
Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com writes: In other words, in ASN.1 as it's used you have to know the schema and message type in order to do a good job of parsing the message, No you don't. I give as a counterexample dumpasn1, which knows nothing about message types or schemas, but parses

Re: [cryptography] Oddity in common bcrypt implementation

2011-06-29 Thread Peter Gutmann
James A. Donald jam...@echeque.com writes: I rather think it is the right forum, for this forum is applied cryptography, and application usually requires password handling. If we are going to go beyond seven bit ascii, unicode is the only thing that is going to avoid compatibility hell. I

Re: [cryptography] Intel RNG

2011-06-28 Thread Peter Gutmann
In case this is useful to anyone, here's the Windows code to use rdrand, to complement the gcc version for Unix systems. It'll also be present in the next release of the cryptlib RNG code, available under a GPL, LGPL, or BSD license, depending on which you prefer. #if defined( _MSC_VER )

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