Re: [cryptography] Fatal flaw in Taiwanese smart card RNG

2013-09-17 Thread James A. Donald
On 2013-09-17 02:56, Seth David Schoen wrote: Well, there's a distinction between RNGs that have been maliciously designed and RNGs that are just extremely poor (or just are inadequately seeded but their designers or users don't realize this). It sounds like such extremely poor RNGs are

[cryptography] Fatal flaw in Taiwanese smart card RNG

2013-09-16 Thread John Kemp
See: http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/fatal-crypto-flaw-in-some-government-certified-smartcards-makes-forgery-a-snap/ for overview, and: http://smartfacts.cr.yp.to/ for more details of the research. Would it be advisable to implement a test, prior to any certification of an RNG,

Re: [cryptography] Fatal flaw in Taiwanese smart card RNG

2013-09-16 Thread Tim
no. you can't test a rng by looking at the output. only the algorithm and the actual code can be analyzed and reviewed. it is because it is extremely easy to create a crappy rng that fools the smartest analytical tool on the planet. it is not that easy to fool an attacker that reverse

Re: [cryptography] Fatal flaw in Taiwanese smart card RNG

2013-09-16 Thread Seth David Schoen
Krisztián Pintér writes: no. you can't test a rng by looking at the output. only the algorithm and the actual code can be analyzed and reviewed. it is because it is extremely easy to create a crappy rng that fools the smartest analytical tool on the planet. it is not that easy to fool an

Re: [cryptography] Fatal flaw in Taiwanese smart card RNG

2013-09-16 Thread Krisztián Pintér
no. you can't test a rng by looking at the output. only the algorithm and the actual code can be analyzed and reviewed. it is because it is extremely easy to create a crappy rng that fools the smartest analytical tool on the planet. it is not that easy to fool an attacker that reverse

Re: [cryptography] Fatal flaw in Taiwanese smart card RNG

2013-09-16 Thread Jeffrey Goldberg
On 2013-09-16, at 11:56 AM, Seth David Schoen sch...@loyalty.org wrote: Well, there's a distinction between RNGs that have been maliciously designed and RNGs that are just extremely poor This has been something that I’ve been trying to learn more about in the past week or so. And if this