Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?)

2013-09-15 Thread ianG
leaving aside the more wide-eyed comments in this thread... On 15/09/13 03:05 AM, coderman wrote: apply defense in depth, and pair cleared individual work product with a scrutinizer not so encumbered. call it peer review across trust boundaries. it is mandatory! Indeed. Your conclusion mi

Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?)

2013-09-14 Thread Jeffrey Goldberg
On 2013-09-14, at 6:49 PM, David D wrote: > I commend your vivid imagination and magical abilities to reduce an entire > email down to one point and run with it. Thank you. I took one tiny piece of your message as a launching pad to make my own point. I wasn’t aware that this was such a rare ta

Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?)

2013-09-14 Thread coderman
On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 4:49 PM, David D wrote: > Great points all around. Your suggestions for identification and punishment > are delightful. someone mentioned a bitcoin assassination pool: names to addresses, addresses to kill bid, according to harm perpetuated. if your spec includes a

Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?)

2013-09-14 Thread David D
with it. -Original Message- From: Jeffrey Goldberg [mailto:jeff...@goldmark.org] Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 1:08 AM To: David D Cc: cryptography@randombit.net List Subject: Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Sec

Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?)

2013-09-14 Thread Jeffrey Walton
On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Jeffrey Goldberg wrote: > On 2013-09-13, at 9:28 AM, David D wrote: > >>... > Obviously, we should insist on due process for the NSA stooges. If they > confess their activities and name their co-conspirators, we may allow them > some limited role, but those who

Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?)

2013-09-14 Thread Jeffrey Goldberg
On 2013-09-13, at 9:28 AM, David D wrote: > 1. Make working at the NSA a series of scarlet letters. That’s a good start, but does it really do enough? People who “should know better” that have disagreed with me about standards and practices, must also be working for the NSA, and so need to be

Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?)

2013-09-14 Thread Peter Maxwell
On 13 September 2013 13:10, Adam Back wrote: [snip] > Psychopaths are a minority, and people on the top end of crypto/maths > skills > are sought after enough to easily move jobs even in a down market - so the > "must collect pay-check" argument seems unlikely. So I stand by my > argument > th

Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?)

2013-09-14 Thread David D
:j...@jkemp.net] Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 2:49 PM To: Adam Back Cc: David D; cryptography@randombit.net Subject: Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?) On Sep 13, 2013, at

Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?)

2013-09-14 Thread ianG
On 13/09/13 17:28 PM, David D wrote: ... It is my opinion that if you want to stop the NSA by focusing on those who might still have a sliver of humanity remaining one would want to: 1. Make working at the NSA a series of scarlet letters. 2. Make their existing and future work useless. 3. Ma

Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?)

2013-09-14 Thread John Kemp
On Sep 13, 2013, at 8:10 AM, Adam Back wrote: > >> “In the 1960s students at MIT protested strongly against having a >> classified research laboratory on the campus and MIT said we will divest >> it, so it won’t be part of MIT anymore,” said Leslie. “It still exists in >> Cambridge, but it’s not

Re: [cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?)

2013-09-13 Thread David D
Applying one's beliefs to another can be a fatal mistake as people truly do "think", "feel", and "act" differently based on various factors. I agree that there are people who will drop one opportunity and pick up something else quickly.If you are one of these people, then think back to ev

[cryptography] motivation, research ethics & organizational criminality (Re: Forward Secrecy Extensions for OpenPGP: Is this still a good proposal?)

2013-09-13 Thread Adam Back
I suspect there may be some positive correlation between brilliant minds and consideration of human rights & ability to think independently and critically including in the area of uncritical acceptance authoritarian dictates. We're not talking about random grunt - we're talking about gifted end o