Re: Decimal encryption

2008-08-28 Thread "Hal Finney"
I wrote: > Looking a little more closely, I found this paper by Patarin from > Crypto 2005 which describes security bounds for higher round Feistel > constructions: > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/gtcabev3ucv8apdu/ I was wrong, this was from Crypto 03. And as Eric Rescorla has already poin

Re: Decimal encryption

2008-08-28 Thread Hovav Shacham
- "Jonathan Katz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > But he probably wants an encryption scheme, not a cipher. Jon, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If I am reading his message correctly, the original poster seems to be asking for a format-preserving encryption over a domain with 10^40 el

Re: road toll transponder hacked

2008-08-28 Thread dan
"Steven M. Bellovin" writes, in part: -+--- | There's a limit to how far they can go with that, because of the fear | of people abandoning the transponders. | | As for usage-based driving -- the first question is the political will | to do so. | | Finally,

Re: road toll transponder hacked

2008-08-28 Thread John Levine
>> The relationship to this list may then be thin >> excepting that the collection and handling of >> such data remains of substantial interest. > >Actually, it points to cash settlement of road tolls. That's not unknown. On the Niagara Falls toll bridges, they have an ETC system where you buy yo

Re: Decimal encryption

2008-08-28 Thread Peter Gutmann
Eric Rescorla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >There are a set of techniques that allow you to encrypt elements of arbitrary >sets back onto that set. ... and most of them seem to be excessively complicated for what they end up achieving. Just for reference the mechanism from the sci.crypt thread of

Re: Decimal encryption

2008-08-28 Thread Eric Rescorla
At Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:32:10 +1200, Peter Gutmann wrote: > > Eric Rescorla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >There are a set of techniques that allow you to encrypt elements of arbitrary > >sets back onto that set. > > ... and most of them seem to be excessively complicated for what they end up >

Re: road toll transponder hacked

2008-08-28 Thread maf
On 27 aug, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: > Finally, the transponders may not matter much longer; OCR on license > plates is getting that good. As has already been mentioned, the 407 > ETR road in Toronto already relies on this to some extent; it won't be > too much longer before the human assist is al

Re: road toll transponder hacked

2008-08-28 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 12:16:23PM -0400, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: > Finally, the transponders may not matter much longer; OCR on license > plates is getting that good. As has already been mentioned, the 407 > ETR road in Toronto already relies on this to some extent; it won't be > too much long

Viruses on the International Space Station...

2008-08-28 Thread Charles McElwain
Apropos the recent discussion of Fake UIs and the problem of people most needing sensitivity to the dangers being most insensitive: ISS laptops found to be infected with Gammima.AG virus; apparently not the first infection on the ISS. What's worth noting about this story is that the laptops c

Re: road toll transponder hacked

2008-08-28 Thread Steven M. Bellovin
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:49:20 +0200 Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 12:16:23PM -0400, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: > > > Finally, the transponders may not matter much longer; OCR on license > > plates is getting that good. As has already been mentioned, the 407 > > E

Re: Decimal encryption

2008-08-28 Thread Jonathan Katz
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008, Eric Rescorla wrote: At Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:10:51 -0400 (EDT), Jonathan Katz wrote: On Wed, 27 Aug 2008, Eric Rescorla wrote: At Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:05:44 +0200, There are a set of techniques that allow you to encrypt elements of arbitrary sets back onto that set. The o

Re: Decimal encryption

2008-08-28 Thread Jonathan Katz
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008, Hovav Shacham wrote: - "Jonathan Katz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: But he probably wants an encryption scheme, not a cipher. Jon, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If I am reading his message correctly, the original poster seems to be asking for a format-prese

Re: road toll transponder hacked

2008-08-28 Thread StealthMonger
Sherri Davidoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Look for general tracking to appear everywhere. > Anonymous travel is dead. Even for subway riders who still use tokens > and citizens that bicycle around town, the proliferation of cameras, > facial recognition technology

Re: road toll transponder hacked

2008-08-28 Thread Stefan Kelm
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_Collect is in operation in entire >> Germany. It does OCR on all license plates (also used for police >> purposes in realtime, despite initial vigorous denial) but currently >> is only used for truck toll. >> > How well does that actually work? There were many

Re: road toll transponder hacked

2008-08-28 Thread Steven M. Bellovin
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:55:57 +0200 Stefan Kelm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_Collect is in operation in entire > >> Germany. It does OCR on all license plates (also used for police > >> purposes in realtime, despite initial vigorous denial) but > >> currently is

Re: road toll transponder hacked

2008-08-28 Thread Stefan Kelm
> everything forever. With disk prices falling > as they are, keeping everything is cheaper > than careful selective deletion, that's for > sure. I disagree. We've been helping the German "Toll Collect" system (as discussed in this thread as well) setting up and implementing their data privacy c

privacy in public places

2008-08-28 Thread Perry E. Metzger
There has been a lot of talk on the list recently about the privacy issues associated with various toll and fare collecting systems, but others have been pointing out, correctly I think, that this matters less and less because of other technological developments. New York City recently announced

Re: road toll transponder hacked

2008-08-28 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 06:03:14PM +0200, Stefan Kelm wrote: > We've been helping the German "Toll Collect" system (as > discussed in this thread as well) setting up and implementing > their data privacy concept. This concept requires Toll Collect > to delete almost any data after a certain (quite

Re: Decimal encryption

2008-08-28 Thread Thomas Baignères
Hello, Actually, block ciphers encrypting blocks of *decimal* numbers exist: - TOY100 [1] encrypts blocks of 32 decimal digits - DEAN18 [2] encrypts blocks of 18 decimal digits - DEAN27 [3] encrypts blocks of 27 decimal digits TOY100 is (almost) broken by the generalized linear cryptanalysis

Re: Decimal encryption

2008-08-28 Thread Greg Rose
One of the earlier messages (I lost it) said that Philipp said that there was information that could be used as a nonce. In that case, I would recommend a stream cipher used to generate 133 bits at a time; if the lump of bits represents an integer in the correct range, add it modulo 10^40... ot