Re: [Cryptography] What is the state of patents on elliptic curve cryptography?
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Daira Hopwood da...@jacaranda.org wrote: On 20/08/13 19:26, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: It is almost certain that most uses of EC would not infringe the remaining patents. But the patent holder can force anyone attempting to use them to spend about $3-5 million to defend their right to use EC and so there is very little incentive to do so given that RSA 2048 is sufficient for almost any need. In principle there's no way to be sure of anything being free from patents, so why treat EC as a special case? Seems like you're just doing Certicom's FUD-spreading for them :-( Given that I am an expert witness specialising in finding prior art for patent defences, my original post was a statement against interest as I would be in with a good shot of getting a $100K gig if someone did decided to test patentability of EC. There is no way to be sure that anything is free of patents, but in this case we are pretty sure that there will be a suit. This is not an exception to the usual approach either, quite a few of my design proposals in IETF have been shot down as 'too clever', i.e. someone might have filed a patent. What worries me on the Certicom patents is whether the 20 year from filing or 17 years from issue applies since they are continuations in part on a filing made prior to 7 June 1995. -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/ ___ The cryptography mailing list cryptography@metzdowd.com http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
Re: [Cryptography] What is the state of patents on elliptic curve cryptography?
On 2013-08-21 3:38 AM, Perry E. Metzger wrote: What is the current state of patents on elliptic curve cryptosystems? (It would also be useful to know when the patents on such patents as exist end.) Perry Such a question will be answered not with light but with darkness. ___ The cryptography mailing list cryptography@metzdowd.com http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
Re: [Cryptography] What is the state of patents on elliptic curve cryptography?
Here's a nice resource: RFC 6090! https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6090 Also relevant: http://cr.yp.to/ecdh/patents.html I'd be keen to see a list of potentially-relevant patents which have expired or are due to expire within the next 5 years. Regards, Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn Founder, CEO, and Customer Support Rep https://LeastAuthority.com Freedom matters. ___ The cryptography mailing list cryptography@metzdowd.com http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
Re: [Cryptography] What is the state of patents on elliptic curve cryptography?
It is almost certain that most uses of EC would not infringe the remaining patents. But the patent holder can force anyone attempting to use them to spend about $3-5 million to defend their right to use EC and so there is very little incentive to do so given that RSA 2048 is sufficient for almost any need. The situation might change depending on who buys RIM. On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Perry E. Metzger pe...@piermont.comwrote: What is the current state of patents on elliptic curve cryptosystems? (It would also be useful to know when the patents on such patents as exist end.) Perry -- Perry E. Metzgerpe...@piermont.com ___ The cryptography mailing list cryptography@metzdowd.com http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/ ___ The cryptography mailing list cryptography@metzdowd.com http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
Re: [Cryptography] What is the state of patents on elliptic curve cryptography?
On Aug 20, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Perry E. Metzger wrote: What is the current state of patents on elliptic curve cryptosystems? (It would also be useful to know when the patents on such patents as exist end.) As the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECC_patents makes clear, the situation is ... unclear. Certicom has a large number of patents, the most general of which seems to be http://www.google.com/patents/US6141420, which has a priority date of July 29, 1994 and a filing date of Jan 29, 1997 - so has another 3.5 years to go. It also holds many other patents - the NSA says more than 130 related patents. But their validity is unclear: The only lawsuit mentioned (Certicom went after Sony) was settled, but Sony at the time was claiming prior art. RSA asserts (but says this isn't a legal opinion) that all of Certicom's patents are on particular implementation techniques, and that other techniques can be used to avoid the patents. There are related patents held by everyone from Cylink to HP to Apple. With no cases argued all the way through, it's impossible to evaluate the strength or actual breadth of the claims. The situation is unsettled enough that commercial implementors will generally avoid treading in the area except for the particular curve that NSA licensed and allowed for general use. RSA seems willing to challenge that position: As part of its BSAFE library, it provides elliptic curve implementations over a variety of curves, not, it seems, just the one NSA licensed (http://www.emc.com/collateral/data-sheet/11433-bsafe-tech-table.pdf). -- Jerry Perry -- Perry E. Metzger pe...@piermont.com ___ The cryptography mailing list cryptography@metzdowd.com http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography ___ The cryptography mailing list cryptography@metzdowd.com http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
