Re: [Cryptography] Why not the DNS? (was Re: Implementations, attacks on DHTs, Mix Nets?)

2013-08-29 Thread Perry E. Metzger
On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:43:24 -0400 Jerry Leichter leich...@lrw.com
wrote:
 On Aug 28, 2013, at 8:34 AM, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
 
  On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 23:39:51 -0400 Jerry Leichter
  leich...@lrw.com wrote:
  It's not as if this isn't a design we have that we know works:
  DNS.
 Read what I said:  There's a *design* that works.
 
 I never suggested *using DNS* - either its current physical
 instantiation, or even necessarily the raw code.  In fact, I
 pointed out some of the very problems you mention.
 
 What defines the DNS model - and is in contrast to the DHT model -
 is:
 
 - Two basic classes of participants, those that track potentially
 large amounts of data and respond to queries and those that simply
 cache for local use;
 - Caching of responses for authoritative-holder-limited amounts of
 time to avoid re-querying;
 - A hierarchical namespace and a corresponding hierarchy of caches.
 
 DNS and DNSSEC as implemented assume a single hierarchy, and they
 map the hierarchy to authority.  These features are undesirable and
 should be avoided.

I'm unsure how to use a DNS-like model when there is no real linkage
between hierarchy in the names used and the storage location of
particular mappings. In particular, if I have names like
f...@example.com, and I want just anyone to be able to enroll at any
time without administrator input, and I don't want state
authorities to be able to shut down or alter the contents of the
system, I don't see how to accomplish all my goals with something
DNS-like.

That said, if you have a concrete proposal, I would of course find it
interesting to hear about.

-- 
Perry E. Metzgerpe...@piermont.com
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Re: [Cryptography] Why not the DNS? (was Re: Implementations, attacks on DHTs, Mix Nets?)

2013-08-28 Thread Jerry Leichter
On Aug 28, 2013, at 8:34 AM, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

 On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 23:39:51 -0400 Jerry Leichter leich...@lrw.com
 wrote:
 It's not as if this isn't a design we have that we know works:
 DNS.
Read what I said:  There's a *design* that works.

I never suggested *using DNS* - either its current physical instantiation, or 
even necessarily the raw code.  In fact, I pointed out some of the very 
problems you mention.

What defines the DNS model - and is in contrast to the DHT model - is:

- Two basic classes of participants, those that track potentially large amounts 
of data and respond to queries and those that simply cache for local use;
- Caching of responses for authoritative-holder-limited amounts of time to 
avoid re-querying;
- A hierarchical namespace and a corresponding hierarchy of caches.

DNS and DNSSEC as implemented assume a single hierarchy, and they map the 
hierarchy to authority.  These features are undesirable and should be avoided.

-- Jerry

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