Re: [OT] Encryption
[Moderator's note: that's one -- but only one -- of the reasons I think Bob found the exchange so funny. --Perry] Ah, I thought he was being honest but naive and couldn't understand how he could apply for clearance from the US for an import. I looked at the rest of the thread in their mailing list archive and see where he has claimed to be able to crack any AES-128 encrypted document in 20 minutes and that he has references to the current scientific literature showing that such times are well known state of the art. He says he will demonstrate decrypting a document one of the list members sent him and post the literature references when he is back in his office during the week. If I had read that first I would not have wondered about the US import restrictions :-) -- sidney - The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Encryption
--- begin forwarded text User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 21:08:21 +0100 Subject: Re: [OT] Encryption From: Robert Tito [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kyle Moffett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Cocoa Development [EMAIL PROTECTED], Shawn Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Discussions regarding native Mac OS X application development using Cocoa frameworks. cocoa-dev.lists.apple.com List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-dev, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Status: On 2-1-2004 20:40, Kyle Moffett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Jan 02, 2004, at 14:11, Robert Tito wrote: On 2-1-2004 20:08, Shawn Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you tell us the name of the product? Note that describing the algorithm used in an encryption technology does not imply one has to open your code up but just describe the ciphers methodology. In absence of that it is hard for anyone to verify the ability of the algorithm. For example RSA's RC5 is described [1] yet not open sourced. It is patented and requires licensing to use. It sounds like you may have had some type of public/government verification that has taken place...? -Shawn Its called Salutis. Do you have a link or a web-page that describes the product? Where might one find more information about said product? Perhaps a link to the government classification standard you claim to be meeting, including the identity of the third-party that verified your classification level. Please note that I do not want your assembly or C++ code, nor do I even want pseudo-code, though pseudo-code is acceptable if you want to provide it, it's just a little harder to read. All I was asking for was the mathematical procedure(s) you use for encryption. All of the cryptographic experts that I know tell me that anyone who will not provide a description of their encryption system for anyone who asks is just selling snake-oil in the form of a cryptographic application. Cheers, Kyle Moffett - -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.12 GCM/CS/IT/U d- s++: a16 C$ UB/L/X/*(+)$ P+++()$ L(+++) E W++(+) N+++(++) o? K? w--- O? M++ V? PS+() PE+(-) Y+ PGP? t+(+++) 5 X R? tv-(--) b(++) DI+ D+ G e-$ h!*()++$ r !y?(-) - --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQE/9ckRag7LSGnFq10RAuIqAKCXliVlmwSwhTJSgwpPFu5r3wYHYgCeIoQN tBWdVOrryJmWNg/qXERBqLA= =fKQw -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ cocoa-dev mailing list | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. The information is available at www.vgz.nl, when you use contact an english version and additional information can and will be sent, so far we have just put up a Dutch site as we are a Dutch company working for the Dutch department of justice and Department of Finance and the police. But the FBI and NSA and CIA have tried to crack our solutuion (meaning the encrypted file) but they failed. Because once the encryption starts it is impossible to provide a backdoor the solution is pretty safe. And not very welcomed by those US services: it provides absolute level 4 secrecy. Rob Tito [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ++31 - (0)621 - 824722 The changes we wish to see need to come from within us M. Gandhi 3Freedom is not worth having if it doesn't include the freedom to make mistakes2 M. Ghandi 3Friends are dear, cherish them2 R.P. Tito ___ cocoa-dev mailing list | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' - The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Encryption
--- begin forwarded text User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:59:14 +0100 Subject: Re: [OT] Encryption From: Robert Tito [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kyle Moffett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Cocoa Development [EMAIL PROTECTED], Shawn Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Discussions regarding native Mac OS X application development using Cocoa frameworks. cocoa-dev.lists.apple.com List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-dev, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Status: On 2-1-2004 20:40, Kyle Moffett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Jan 02, 2004, at 14:11, Robert Tito wrote: On 2-1-2004 20:08, Shawn Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you tell us the name of the product? Note that describing the algorithm used in an encryption technology does not imply one has to open your code up but just describe the ciphers methodology. In absence of that it is hard for anyone to verify the ability of the algorithm. For example RSA's RC5 is described [1] yet not open sourced. It is patented and requires licensing to use. It sounds like you may have had some type of public/government verification that has taken place...? -Shawn Its called Salutis. Do you have a link or a web-page that describes the product? Where might one find more information about said product? Perhaps a link to the government classification standard you claim to be meeting, including the identity of the third-party that verified your classification level. Please note that I do not want your assembly or C++ code, nor do I even want pseudo-code, though pseudo-code is acceptable if you want to provide it, it's just a little harder to read. All I was asking for was the mathematical procedure(s) you use for encryption. All of the cryptographic experts that I know tell me that anyone who will not provide a description of their encryption system for anyone who asks is just selling snake-oil in the form of a cryptographic application. Cheers, Kyle Moffett - -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.12 GCM/CS/IT/U d- s++: a16 C$ UB/L/X/*(+)$ P+++()$ L(+++) E W++(+) N+++(++) o? K? w--- O? M++ V? PS+() PE+(-) Y+ PGP? t+(+++) 5 X R? tv-(--) b(++) DI+ D+ G e-$ h!*()++$ r !y?(-) - --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQE/9ckRag7LSGnFq10RAuIqAKCXliVlmwSwhTJSgwpPFu5r3wYHYgCeIoQN tBWdVOrryJmWNg/qXERBqLA= =fKQw -END PGP SIGNATURE- This is as far as I can go without infringing out pending patent: It is a timedependent polymorphic polymetric engine that changes an engine (randomy chosen out of 10 with a max of 5 engines per file per segment of 256 byte of that file). The timestamp determines for the decrypting engine and the encrypting engine where to start within the file so the start never is at byte 1 but follow a timedependent sequence along the file filling up empty space with white noise. Because the key is actually the file itself we do not use a public key, only a key that has to be generated and that is user AND hardware dependent meaning that a change of hard disk enforces you to get your new encryption key, one you generate yourself on your own machine. Networkcards are included as well as BIOS. That way one can safely (more safe as with Verisign et al) the sender indeed is the person who claims he or she is. Per site there has to be a person responsible for distributing this file that in itself has no meaning for anyone who has not been given privileges by that person or who is outside that domain. Because the file is the key itself there exist an immense timing problem the way we solved that is patent pending. So far we have implemented it on all windows version below 2003 But we plan to extend to linux and os x The problem being: we need the assembler code for the different processors and the proper way to implement them without too much hardware and OS dependency. The encryption engines used are all publicly available. So I need not elaborate on these. It was thought not possible to create a polymorphic polymetrical encryption engine, we have done it. And even included a timedependency within it. An other advantage is when the license expires you can still decrypt older messages but cannot encrypt new ones - contrary to all other PKI/PKC implementations. I hope this gives some insight regards Rob Tito [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ++31 - (0)621 - 824722 The changes we wish to see need to come from within us M. Gandhi 3Freedom is not worth having if it doesn't include the freedom to make mistakes2 M. Ghandi 3Friends are dear, cherish them2 R.P. Tito ___ cocoa-dev mailing list | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http
Re: [OT] Encryption
--- begin forwarded text Cc: Cocoa Development [EMAIL PROTECTED], Shawn Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Kyle Moffett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Encryption Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:30:53 -0500 To: Robert Tito [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Discussions regarding native Mac OS X application development using Cocoa frameworks. cocoa-dev.lists.apple.com List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-dev, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Status: On Jan 02, 2004, at 14:59, Robert Tito wrote: On 2-1-2004 20:40, Kyle Moffett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Jan 02, 2004, at 14:11, Robert Tito wrote: On 2-1-2004 20:08, Shawn Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you tell us the name of the product? Note that describing the algorithm used in an encryption technology does not imply one has to open your code up but just describe the ciphers methodology. In absence of that it is hard for anyone to verify the ability of the algorithm. For example RSA's RC5 is described [1] yet not open sourced. It is patented and requires licensing to use. It sounds like you may have had some type of public/government verification that has taken place...? -Shawn Its called Salutis. Do you have a link or a web-page that describes the product? Where might one find more information about said product? Perhaps a link to the government classification standard you claim to be meeting, including the identity of the third-party that verified your classification level. You have not answered this question. Where exactly is additional information on this product? If you intend to sell it, it would be wise to provide a link to more information. This is as far as I can go without infringing out pending patent: Giving out information is not infringing on a patent, pending or not. A patent, in fact, requires the publishing of all of the details of the engine and encryption itself. There might be company policy regarding the issue, but there is no law against it. It is a timedependent polymorphic polymetric engine that changes an engine (randomy chosen out of 10 with a max of 5 engines per file per segment of 256 byte of that file). The timestamp determines for the decrypting engine and the encrypting engine where to start within the file so the start never is at byte 1 but follow a timedependent sequence along the file filling up empty space with white noise. This makes very little sense, and seems much like marketing babble. So you take a file full of garbage, then stick a timestamp somewhere in there that when hashed indicates where to start in the file, filling up with data. Then somehow you encrypt the data using a series of engines. This is utterly useless in terms of determining the security level of the engine. OTOH, the extreme complexity alone, in combination with the obscurity you appear to be relying on in the encryption software makes me very suspicious. Because the key is actually the file itself we do not use a public key, only a key that has to be generated and that is user AND hardware dependent meaning that a change of hard disk enforces you to get your new encryption key, one you generate yourself on your own machine. Networkcards are included as well as BIOS. That way one can safely (more safe as with Verisign et al) the sender indeed is the person who claims he or she is. Per site there has to be a person responsible for distributing this file that in itself has no meaning for anyone who has not been given privileges by that person or who is outside that domain. Because the file is the key itself there exist an immense timing problem the way we solved that is patent pending. So far we have implemented it on all windows version below 2003 But we plan to extend to linux and os x Please read up on the current uses of encryption in the workplace (signing documents and such). Something that relied upon recreating the key every time you upgraded your hardware would be less than useless. The problem being: we need the assembler code for the different processors and the proper way to implement them without too much hardware and OS dependency. Why assembly? Assembly is only needed in an OS kernel in a few places, and for efficiency reasons. Even then, C and C++ compilers are plenty efficient/ The encryption engines used are all publicly available. So I need not elaborate on these. Which engines? If you use publicly available software please indicate which. It was thought not possible to create a polymorphic polymetrical encryption engine, we have done it. And even included a timedependency within it. The polymorphic polymetrical makes little or no sense. What are you talking about? An other advantage is when the license expires you can still decrypt older
Re: [OT] Encryption
--- begin forwarded text Cc: Cocoa Development [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kyle Moffett [EMAIL PROTECTED], Shawn Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Sherm Pendley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Encryption Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 16:20:50 -0500 To: Robert Tito [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Discussions regarding native Mac OS X application development using Cocoa frameworks. cocoa-dev.lists.apple.com List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-dev, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Status: On Jan 2, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Robert Tito wrote: But the FBI and NSA and CIA have tried to crack our solutuion (meaning the encrypted file) but they failed. How do you know they failed? If they succeeded, they wouldn't tell you about it. One of the basic tenets of applied cryptology is that cracking a code is only useful until your target becomes aware that his code has been cracked. At that point, he will either switch codes, or start feeding you misinformation with the code that's been compromised. Frankly my friend, you're losing credibility with each post you make. Not only do your technical explanations make no sense, you don't seem to have much of a grasp on how encryption is used in the real world. sherm-- ___ cocoa-dev mailing list | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' - The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Encryption
--- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 16:50:44 -0500 To: Robert Tito [EMAIL PROTECTED], Sherm Pendley [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Encryption Cc: Cocoa Development [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kyle Moffett [EMAIL PROTECTED], Shawn Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Discussions regarding native Mac OS X application development using Cocoa frameworks. cocoa-dev.lists.apple.com List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-dev, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Status: At 10:37 PM +0100 1/2/04, Robert Tito wrote: We know, because they wouldnt give us a clearance for the us if we didnt include a backdoor Game. Set. And match. Thank you for playing... Someone throw some sand down on the floor before someone slips and falls, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' ___ cocoa-dev mailing list | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' - The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
