Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-12 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 10:39:18AM +0200, Amir Herzberg wrote: So I think this observation about EZ Pass is probably true, but for some time ago; with current technology, reading license plates is possible (which, I guess, has some alarming privacy implications...). While Toll Collect (the

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-12 Thread Jerrold Leichter
| another purpose -- preserving the privacy of drivers by using more | complicated protocols. However, as the benefit of such systems is to | people who are unlikely to have much voice in the construction of the | system, and who are also unlikely to be willing to pay more money to | gain

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-12 Thread Jerrold Leichter
| ...unless people are willing to go very hi-tech in their toll evasion | maneuvers, implementing, say, thin see-through LCD screens placed over their | license plates that turn opaque at a push of a button A local TV station here in the NY area did a show about a lower-tech version of the

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-12 Thread Roy M. Silvernail
Jerrold Leichter wrote: How long before license plates have transponders built into them? After all, it's long-established law that you can be required to place an identifier on your car when it's on the public roads - why's there a difference between one that responds at optical frequencies and

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-11 Thread David Alexander Molnar
On Sat, 10 Jul 2004, Perry E. Metzger wrote: another purpose -- preserving the privacy of drivers by using more complicated protocols. However, as the benefit of such systems is to people who are unlikely to have much voice in the construction of the system, and who are also unlikely to be

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-11 Thread Amir Herzberg
If they could read the license plates reliably, then they wouldn't need the EZ Pass at all. They can't. It takes human effort, which is in short supply. The toll road that began operating here in Israel seems able to read your license plate number, without even requiring cars to slow down (and

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-10 Thread Jerrold Leichter
| No mention is made of encryption or challenge response | authentication but I guess that may or may not be part of the design | (one would think it had better be, as picking off the ESN should be duck | soup with suitable gear if not encrypted). | | From a business perspective, it makes

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-10 Thread Ian Grigg
John Gilmore wrote: [By the way, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is being left out of this conversation, by his own configuration, because his site censors all emails from me. --gnu] Sourceforge was doing that to me today! Well, I am presuming that ... the EZ Pass does have an account number, right? And

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-10 Thread Steven M. Bellovin
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Gilmore writes: If they could read the license plates reliably, then they wouldn't need the EZ Pass at all. They can't. It takes human effort, which is in short supply. There are, in fact, toll roads that try to do that; see, for example,

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-10 Thread Greg Rose
At 21:54 2004-07-09 +0100, Ian Grigg wrote: John Gilmore wrote: It would be relatively easy to catch someone doing this - just cross-correlate with other information (address of home and work) and then photograph the car at the on-ramp. Am I missing something? It seems to me that EZ Pass spoofing

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-10 Thread Elliott Frank
FasTrak is a passive system relative to the transponder -- it uses the transponder ID, a vehicle sensor, and an axle counter to generate toll records. The associated license plate capture-and-decode feature is only invoked if a non-transponder-equipped or invalidated-transponder-equipped vehicle

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-10 Thread Jon Snader
On Sat, Jul 10, 2004 at 10:28:49AM +1000, Greg Rose wrote: If they could do that reliably, they wouldn't need the toll thingy, nu? I have been told by someone in the photo-enforcement industry that their reliability is only around 75%, and they're very expensive, and ... anyway, not a

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-10 Thread Eric Rescorla
Perry E. Metzger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It would be relatively easy to catch someone doing this - just cross-correlate with other information (address of home and work) and then photograph the car at the on-ramp. Am I missing something? It seems

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-10 Thread Perry E. Metzger
Eric Rescorla [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All the toll lanes that accept EZ Pass that I've seen are equipped with cameras. These cameras are used to identify toll evaders already. You point out that doing this would require manual work, but in fact several systems (including the one used for

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-09 Thread Ian Grigg
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 21:34:20 -0400 From: Dave Emery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: EZ Pass and the fast lane No mention is made of encryption or challenge response authentication but I guess that may or may not be part of the design (one would think it had better

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-09 Thread John Gilmore
It would be relatively easy to catch someone doing this - just cross-correlate with other information (address of home and work) and then photograph the car at the on-ramp. Am I missing something? It seems to me that EZ Pass spoofing should become as popular as cellphone cloning, until they

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-09 Thread Ian Grigg
John Gilmore wrote: It would be relatively easy to catch someone doing this - just cross-correlate with other information (address of home and work) and then photograph the car at the on-ramp. Am I missing something? It seems to me that EZ Pass spoofing should become as popular as cellphone

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-09 Thread John Gilmore
[By the way, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is being left out of this conversation, by his own configuration, because his site censors all emails from me. --gnu] Well, I am presuming that ... the EZ Pass does have an account number, right? And then, the car does have a licence place? So, just correlate