Re: Effects of OpenID or similar standards

2009-11-09 Thread Jerry Leichter

On Nov 6, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Erwan Legrand wrote:


On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:41 PM, David-Sarah Hopwood
david-sa...@jacaranda.org wrote:
Jerry is absolutely correct that the practical result will be that  
most

users of OpenID will become more vulnerable to compromise of a single
password.


Do you really believe most people use different passwords for  
different sites?


Let's face it: most people use the same password for every single Web
site they connect to. Starting from here, I can't see OpenID becoming
much of a problem.
While I'm sure this is widely believed, I wonder if it's really true.   
Is anyone aware of research on the subject?


Even if it's true to a large degree, the details may matter.  People  
may routinely use the same password for all their low value  
accounts, but come up with something better for their bank or other  
high value accounts.  Paradoxically, the *lack* of a standard for  
password quality may help here.  High-value sites often place some  
requirement on the nature of passwords, but the requirements vary:   
Letters and digits only; letters plus digits plus at least one  
special character - with the set of allowed special characters  
varying in pretty arbitrary ways; etc.  It's tough to come up with a  
single password that will be broadly accepted at such sites, and  
anything someone does come up with will be so inconvenient that it's  
unlikely to be something they'll want to use at low-value, any- 
password-accepted, sites.


A widely-used single sign on system is certainly great from a  
usability point of view, and does actually have some positive effects  
on security:  You no longer need to hand your actual password to sites  
programmed by someone whose background in security is minimal.  The  
downside is that you now have a single super-high-value password, the  
compromise of which would be very painful.


-- Jerry

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Re: Effects of OpenID or similar standards

2009-11-09 Thread Erwan Legrand
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 3:17 AM, Jerry Leichter leich...@lrw.com wrote:
 On Nov 6, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Erwan Legrand wrote:
 Let's face it: most people use the same password for every single Web
 site they connect to. Starting from here, I can't see OpenID becoming
 much of a problem.

 While I'm sure this is widely believed, I wonder if it's really true.  Is
 anyone aware of research on the subject?

Not exactly, although I sure there was some research done on the
number of passwords people had to remember nowadays and how many they
were able to remember.

 Even if it's true to a large degree, the details may matter.  People may
 routinely use the same password for all their low value accounts, but come
 up with something better for their bank or other high value accounts.

For what it's worth (i.e. not much), in my own experience people who
actually do this qualify as nerds.

  Paradoxically, the *lack* of a standard for password quality may help here.
  High-value sites often place some requirement on the nature of passwords,
 but the requirements vary:  Letters and digits only; letters plus digits
 plus at least one special character - with the set of allowed special
 characters varying in pretty arbitrary ways; etc.  It's tough to come up
 with a single password that will be broadly accepted at such sites, and
 anything someone does come up with will be so inconvenient that it's
 unlikely to be something they'll want to use at low-value,
 any-password-accepted, sites.

Select any five letters long dictionary word of your choice, append 0
or 1 and you have a password one can reuse for almost all her
accounts. I've seen real people do just that.

 A widely-used single sign on system is certainly great from a usability
 point of view, and does actually have some positive effects on security:
  You no longer need to hand your actual password to sites programmed by
 someone whose background in security is minimal.  The downside is that you
 now have a single super-high-value password, the compromise of which would
 be very painful.

Agreed. This word, usability, is the key here. I used to be very
sceptical (to say the least) with regard to SSO systems. Then about
everyone around gained access to the Internet and the World Wide Web.
Then about every new Web site out there started requiring users to
create accounts. The likes of OpenID have their use in today's world.

Looking to this problem from another perspective, I'm yet to see any
sensitive Web site (such as a banking site) relying on OpenID for
authentication. But I must admit I haven't looked for one. Yet perhaps
someone on this list knows better?
-- 
Erwan Legrand

Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability.
-- E. W. Dijkstra

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