Re: Why doesn't Sun release the crypto module of the OpenSPARC? Crypto export restrictions

2008-06-12 Thread Richard Salz
I would expect hardware designs to be treated more like hardware than 
software.

/r$

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Re: Why doesn't Sun release the crypto module of the OpenSPARC? Crypto export restrictions

2008-06-12 Thread John Gilmore
 I would expect hardware designs to be treated more like hardware than 
 software.

A hardware design is not hardware.  Only a naive parsing of the
words would treat it so.  A software design is not treated like
software; you are free to write about how ATM machine crypto is
designed, even if you can't export ATM machine crypto software without
a license (because it's proprietary and not mass-market).

A hardware design is a lot like software.  It's human written and
human readable, it's trivial to reproduce, it's compiled automatically
into something that can execute, and if you write it into hardware,
then it does something.

The court case that EFF won against the export controls was won on
those grounds: the government can't suppress the publication of
human-written and human-readable text, on the grounds that somebody
somewhere might put it into a machine that does things the government
doesn't like.

Sun may be chicken on the point, and the government did a sneaky trick
to technically avoid having a Ninth Circuit precedent set on the
topic, but a similar precedent was set by Peter Junger's case in
another circuit.  I think Sun would be well within its rights to ship
VHDL or Verilog source code that implements crypto under an open
source license.  And I'd be happy to point them at good lawyers who'd
be happy to be paid to render a more definitive opinion.

John Gilmore


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Re: Why doesn't Sun release the crypto module of the OpenSPARC? Crypto export restrictions

2008-06-12 Thread Richard Salz
If only to make sure that there's no confusion about where I stand:  I 
agree with you completely John.  I am not surprised that the feds or Sun 
see it otherwise.

/r$

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WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances
http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/

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Re: Why doesn't Sun release the crypto module of the OpenSPARC? Crypto export restrictions

2008-06-12 Thread Thierry Moreau



Richard Salz wrote:

I would expect hardware designs to be treated more like hardware than 
software.




That's an interesting observation, raising the issue of what is speech 
 vs hardware.


When I looked into this issue, I found the Common Criteria 
certification methodology as evidence that speech covers everything 
from the most high level abstract design description to the most 
concrete representation of the hardware that you would look at, e.g. for 
security certification assurance that electronic gates are properly 
positioned by the Computer-Aided-Design tools. Hence, any information is 
speech, and if it's in the public domain, I would expect an export 
control exception would apply. Only the actual silicon, and non 
human-readable dies for the silicon, would be hardware.


Otherwise, I see no legal base to locate a cut-off point between 
speech and hardware in the process of design refinements leading to 
the actual processor.


Regards,

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- Thierry Moreau

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