Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread Peter Gutmann
James A. Donald jam...@echeque.com writes: There is a small but not totally insignificant chance that after fiat monies collapse, the world will go bitcoin standard. ITYM: There is a small but insignificant chance that fiat monies will collapse. There is a small but insignificant chance that

[cryptography] attacks against bitcoin

2011-06-12 Thread Eugen Leitl
How safe is the bitcoin cryptosystem and the communication network against targeted attacks? -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org

Re: [cryptography] attacks against bitcoin

2011-06-12 Thread Adam Back
I was thinking a DoS might be a problem. If you could prevent the p2p network broadcasting or receiving broadcasts, maybe you could be the only person able to proceed with minting. If you could keep that up for a while you could reduce the difficulty and create bitcoins with lower cost. A full

Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread Ian G
On 12/06/11 4:21 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote: Am I the only one who thinks it's not coincidence that the (supposed) major use of bitcoin is by people buying hallucinogenic substances? The best way to think of this is from the marketing concepts of product diffusion or product life cycle.

Re: [cryptography] attacks against bitcoin

2011-06-12 Thread Ian G
On 12/06/11 8:16 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote: How safe is the bitcoin cryptosystem and the communication network against targeted attacks? It depends on what the intention or objective of the attack is. And that depends on the threat actor. For example, a phishing threat actor would be looking

Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread Nicholas Bohm
On 12/06/2011 13:23, Ian G wrote: On 12/06/11 4:21 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote: Am I the only one who thinks it's not coincidence that the (supposed) major use of bitcoin is by people buying hallucinogenic substances?

Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread James A. Donald
On 2011-06-13 9:26 AM, Ian G wrote: However. Unless the laws of financial conservation have been repealed by the design, those who follow have to invest a lot and come out with less... Financial conservation does not apply to money. If paper currency collapses, and is replaced by gold, those

Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread James A. Donald
On 2011-06-11 10:41 PM, Ian G wrote: We expect money to be a store of value, among a few other things. BitCoin has nothing in it that speaks to that goal, that I can see [0]. This anti-property would however make it more ideal for a bubble [1]. All money is a bubble. The non monetary value of

Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread James A. Donald
On 2011-06-12 6:13 AM, John Levine wrote: Useful for something, but not useful for money. I can't help but note that the level of economic knowledge in the digital cash community is pitifully low, and much of what people think they know is absurd. (Anyone who thinks that a gold standard is

Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread James A. Donald
On 2011-06-12 8:53 AM, Nico Williams wrote: A fiat currency with no capital controls and reasonably free trade is probably the best currency system yet. Details do matter though. If operated by far sighted men with an eye for the long term - for example if operated by a hereditary monarchy.

Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread Jeffrey Walton
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:44 PM, James A. Donald jam...@echeque.com wrote: On 2011-06-12 8:53 AM, Nico Williams wrote: A fiat currency with no capital controls and reasonably free trade is probably the best currency system yet.  Details do matter though. If operated by far sighted men with

Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread Nico Williams
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 9:44 PM, James A. Donald jam...@echeque.com wrote: On 2011-06-12 8:53 AM, Nico Williams wrote: A fiat currency with no capital controls and reasonably free trade is probably the best currency system yet.  Details do matter though. If operated by far sighted men with

Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread Nico Williams
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Jeffrey Walton noloa...@gmail.com wrote: I think Sparta had it right in this instance: put the public officials on trial when their term is over, and make them accountable for their actions. Its funny how those lessons were lost. Doesn't help. The trials

Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread Jeffrey Walton
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Jeffrey Walton noloa...@gmail.com wrote: I think Sparta had it right in this instance: put the public officials on trial when their term is over, and make them accountable for their

Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread John Levine
We can therefore see that someone has to make that worth mean something, so for this we need an issuer sometimes known as Ivan. It's beyond the scope of a crypto list to discuss this in depth, but typically Ivan would deposit $1 for every issued electronic dollar in some bank account

Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread Nico Williams
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 11:28 PM, Jeffrey Walton noloa...@gmail.com wrote: I recall Obama boasting: My Administration is the only thing saving you from the pitchforks of the American people [sic] at a banker's lunch after he took office. On the campaign trail, he received over 1M USD from

Re: [cryptography] Nothing to do with digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread John Levine
... I don't think it's fair to blame private financial institutions for the ill-effects of an ill-advised government plan to subsidize housing ownership by individuals. Without Frannie, CRA, or anything of the sort I don't think we'd have seen the degree of financialization of housing that we

Re: [cryptography] Nothing to do with digital cash in the news...

2011-06-12 Thread Nico Williams
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:33 AM, John Levine jo...@iecc.com wrote: Sigh.  This is both unrelated to crypto, and just plain factually True, so I'll drop it. wrong (although it is considered gospel in some political circles.) There's much to debate here that doesn't belong on this list. I'll