Re: [css-d] [Slightly OT] Font sizes
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:13:45 -0400 Felix Miata increased personal carbon footprint by exciting electrons the world over with these memorable words: On 2008/09/12 08:41 (GMT+1200) Michael Adams composed: On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:12:01 -0400 David Laakso increased personal carbon footprint by exciting electrons the world over with these memorable words: Michael Adams wrote: Does anyone have a good article, and/or a reference to WCAG, that i can use to support the idea that default text size should not be less than the browser default. A Dao of Web Design http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dao Not sure i can use this one as a reference. It is designed for us to read and learn from. Plus it does not conform to 100% body text size. Would be good if its CSS was consistent with its message. 100e2r http://informationarchitects.jp/100e2r/ This is great and has many worthwhile comments I thought so too when it was first published, but it later changed its site styles and no longer practices what it preaches. Several weeks ago I started a rewrite of it that isn't finished and may never be. http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/tmp/new100e2r.html You might want to look through the following, where you might find a link to something appropriate to those artists but doesn't use mousetype to convey an inconsistent message: http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/wauth2.html http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/wauth1.html http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/refmarks.html Among them, http://tobyinkster.co.uk/article/web-fonts/ is my recent favorite, while http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size ought to be more authoritative, and http://www.lighthouse.org/accessibility/top-10/ arguably a good business approach. http://cssliquid.com/ might be something to point those with an artistic priority to. These are great and may take me a day or two to work through. I have in this last week come across the idea that the last word on web site design perhaps should be given to the typographer, not the graphics designer. This is probably a concept that you CSS Gurus are familiar with, but it is new to me. It may also be one that i was unknowingly using given that my websites are mainly using WCAG techniques within the markup and CSS (the issue i am raising here is an accessibility one of setting body font at 100% with all other font settings in Ems). It is the graphics designer in us all that want's to reduce the font size because we feel it makes the page look tidier. So the secret now becomes designing the best looking website we can around the 100% font content, which ends up being an exciting challenge in itself. I may post a case study of the reasoning behind the website i am working on as an example as this is what i am writing for the client. Thankfully Eric has allowed this thread to continue to date, it does involve CSS design principles, i hope many CSS designers are gaining something from it. But i do expect it to dry up naturally soon, so please bear with us or ignore the thread if you are not interested. -- Michael All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416 __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] [Slightly OT] Font sizes
Michael Adams wrote: I have in this last week come across the idea that the last word on web site design perhaps should be given to the typographer, not the graphics designer. This is probably a concept that you CSS Gurus are familiar with, but it is new to me. Graphic designers can ruin any web design in their attempt to make it perfect. It pays to expose designs to real-world challenges - before they are released. It may also be one that i was unknowingly using given that my websites are mainly using WCAG techniques within the markup and CSS (the issue i am raising here is an accessibility one of setting body font at 100% with all other font settings in Ems). It is the graphics designer in us all that want's to reduce the font size because we feel it makes the page look tidier. I think one may be allowed to ask: tidier in who's browser? Your accessible font-size settings look reasonable. However, I've seen so many layouts blow apart in my browsers, that I'll just throw in my thoughts on the issue, for good measure... http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_03_04.html regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] [Slightly OT] Font sizes
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:12:01 -0400 David Laakso increased personal carbon footprint by exciting electrons the world over with these memorable words: Michael Adams wrote: Does anyone have a good article, and/or a reference to WCAG, that i can use to support the idea that default text size should not be less than the browser default. A Dao of Web Design http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dao Not sure i can use this one as a reference. It is designed for us to read and learn from. Plus it does not conform to 100% body text size. 100e2r http://informationarchitects.jp/100e2r/ This is great and has many worthwhile comments PS Slightly OT: I'd have a good answer ready should any these artists visit your signature link source document and its style sheet. Huh? I don't have a link in my signature. This one has gone over my head i think. -- Michael All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416 __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] [Slightly OT] Font sizes
On 2008/09/12 08:41 (GMT+1200) Michael Adams composed: On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:12:01 -0400 David Laakso increased personal carbon footprint by exciting electrons the world over with these memorable words: Michael Adams wrote: Does anyone have a good article, and/or a reference to WCAG, that i can use to support the idea that default text size should not be less than the browser default. A Dao of Web Design http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dao Not sure i can use this one as a reference. It is designed for us to read and learn from. Plus it does not conform to 100% body text size. Would be good if its CSS was consistent with its message. 100e2r http://informationarchitects.jp/100e2r/ This is great and has many worthwhile comments I thought so too when it was first published, but it later changed its site styles and no longer practices what it preaches. Several weeks ago I started a rewrite of it that isn't finished and may never be. http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/tmp/new100e2r.html You might want to look through the following, where you might find a link to something appropriate to those artists but doesn't use mousetype to convey an inconsistent message: http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/wauth2.html http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/wauth1.html http://fm.no-ip.com/auth/refmarks.html Among them, http://tobyinkster.co.uk/article/web-fonts/ is my recent favorite, while http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size ought to be more authoritative, and http://www.lighthouse.org/accessibility/top-10/ arguably a good business approach. http://cssliquid.com/ might be something to point those with an artistic priority to. It's really depressing how rare good examples are. :-( PS Slightly OT: I'd have a good answer ready should any these artists visit your signature link source document and its style sheet. Huh? I don't have a link in my signature. This one has gone over my head i think. It went over my head too, and I'm curious what it was about. -- Unless the Lord builds the house, its builders labor in vain. Psalm 127:1 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] [Slightly OT] Font sizes
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:12:01 -0400 David Laakso increased personal carbon footprint by exciting electrons the world over with these memorable words: Michael Adams wrote: Does anyone have a good article, and/or a reference to WCAG, that i can use to support the idea that default text size should not be less than the browser default. A Dao of Web Design http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dao 100e2r http://informationarchitects.jp/100e2r/ PS Slightly OT: I'd have a good answer ready should any these artists visit your signature link source document and its style sheet. It also matters what i have been searching on. I had been searching things like accessibility font without a lot of useful success. I googled on wcag accessibility and got some worthwhile hits: http://www.webcredible.co.uk/user-friendly-resources/web-accessibility/wcag-guidelines-20.shtml http://www.webstandards.org/2007/06/11/review-wcag2-may2007-working-draft/ I also googled WCAG readability, these results yeilded some good hits for my personal use and more importantly to pass on to content creators. http://juicystudio.com/services/readability.php http://www.usability.com.au/resources/wcag2/ -- Michael All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416 __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] [Slightly OT] Font sizes
A Dao of Web Design http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dao Not sure i can use this one as a reference. It is designed for us to read and learn from. Plus it does not conform to 100% body text size. Would be good if its CSS was consistent with its message. Blame the CSS and the fact that it does not conform to 100% primary content, and that the site itself suffers from the IE em font-scaling bug, on A List Apart http://www.alistapart.com/ they are the publisher, not the author, of the article. PS Slightly OT: I'd have a good answer ready should any these artists visit your signature link source document and its style sheet. Huh? I don't have a link in my signature. This one has gone over my head i think. It went over my head too, and I'm curious what it was about. Whoops. Sorry, I was referring to your e-mail address wink. Michael Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://paradise.net.nz/ -- A thin red line and a salmon-color ampersand forthcoming. http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] [Slightly OT] Font sizes
On 12/09/2008, at 10:36 AM, David Laakso wrote: A Dao of Web Design http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dao Not sure i can use this one as a reference. It is designed for us to read and learn from. Plus it does not conform to 100% body text size. Would be good if its CSS was consistent with its message. Blame the CSS and the fact that it does not conform to 100% primary content, and that the site itself suffers from the IE em font-scaling bug, on A List Apart http://www.alistapart.com/ they are the publisher, not the author, of the article. PS Slightly OT: I'd have a good answer ready should any these artists visit your signature link source document and its style sheet. Huh? I don't have a link in my signature. This one has gone over my head i think. It went over my head too, and I'm curious what it was about. Whoops. Sorry, I was referring to your e-mail address wink. Michael Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://paradise.net.nz/ -- A thin red line and a salmon-color ampersand forthcoming. http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ Paradise were the best ISP many years ago here in New Zealand, but were bought out by TelstraClear (ultimately owned by Telstra - Australia's govt owned incumbent). Since then it's been left to wither and die. (slightly more on topic...) Does anyone else have the page break below the header, and dance from left to right in Safari when reloading? Something I've not seen before. If it's not just me I'll send the person responsible an email. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +64 21 999 990 Mothership | mothership.co.nz __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [Slightly OT] Font sizes
Does anyone have a good article, and/or a reference to WCAG, that i can use to support the idea that default text size should not be less than the browser default. An article that at the same time discusses font units would be acceptable but less desirable. This is to present to artists, for them good looks overrule other design elements. One of the most consistent things that they see consciously or not is that font size looks uglier at default browser sizes. I intend to present the reasons for my viewpoint to provide balance to the discussion. The website is a disability service website. -- Michael All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416 __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] [Slightly OT] Font sizes
Michael Adams wrote: Does anyone have a good article, and/or a reference to WCAG, that i can use to support the idea that default text size should not be less than the browser default. A Dao of Web Design http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dao 100e2r http://informationarchitects.jp/100e2r/ PS Slightly OT: I'd have a good answer ready should any these artists visit your signature link source document and its style sheet. -- A thin red line and a salmon-color ampersand forthcoming. http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
