-Caveat Lector- >Tonight, however, I'd like to know why you consider >Roosevelt and Clinton facistst. Niether were demigogues. Both >administrations have been the antithesis of fascism. >Should you base your judgement upon manipulative oratory alone, surely >you'll have to include Churchill, Kennedy, Reagan, Lincoln, - >particularly the great communicator Reagan - in your list of fascists as well >as Roosevelt and Clinton. Since facism is generally understood as >ultraconserative and reactionary, similar to libertarian extremism, you >might reconsider your definition of the term. Considering Fascism "ultra-Conservative" is just socialist propaganda. Reactionary is a meaningless Communist smear word. Roosevelt and Churchill were demigogues! Listen to their speeches! Well, of course, manipulation of public opinion is not the only factor indicating fascism. But, certainly the man on horseback manipulating public adoration is a major factor. And like most things it is not yes or no, but more or less! That Roosevelt and Churchill fought other fascist namely the ones in Germany, Japan, and Italy, does not mean that they weren't fascists as well! Fortunately, American and British traditions prevented Fascism from proceeding quite as far in America and Britain than it did in Germany and Italy. The Oligarchic Supreme Court saved America from the worst of what Roosevelt would have done. Fascism involves the consolidation of the State and integration into itself under a popular dictator all or most aspects of society including economics....Corporations, Unions, and many other previously independent social and economic entities. Unlike Communism, the external forms of the previous entities and private property are preserved but ultimately in an illusory way as the State can intervene at will with no Constitutional restraint. In essence, Roosevelt provided the same Fascist answer for Depression to the ruling class behind the major Corporations as did Hitler! The New Deal especially as originally conceived was Fascist through and through! Given Clinton's ultra-Statist penchant for centralizing and nationalizing Medical Care, his unlimited support for the National Security State, disregard of Civil Liberties, etc. [The ACLU and Dershowitz agree with me], business-government partnership, etc. combined with his incredibly crass manipulation of simple-minded public opinion a strong case can be made that he is Fascist. The American Presidency (Imperial Presidency) is well designed as a launching pad for Fascism and all the Presidents you mentioned have at least some Fascist tendencies. Reagan confined his tendency to the Military-Industrial complex, fortunately. Scaife [MELLON] and Starr, on the other hand, want to return to the normal Anglo-American Oligarchical system in which the State is controlled by a cabal of big bankers for the special benefit of their coterie and the rest of society remains relatively laissez-faire. I don't like this either, but it is not fascism and it is not as bad as Fascism. The Oligarchists (like Brutus) in Caesar's time, want to preserve their rule of law, skewed though it may be, to protect their independent fortunes rather than live at the whim of the Fascist leader. To fight Fascism you must destroy the leader with overwhelming popular supprt whether it be Clinton, Roosevelt, Hitler, Kennedy {Fascist New Frontier}, etc. The "people" are always whining for Caesar and must be defeated if any scrap of liberty is to be preserved! *********************************** Lloyd Miller, Research Director for A-albionic Research (POB 20273, Ferndale, MI 48220), a ruling class/conspiracy research resource for the entire political-ideological spectrum. Quarterly journal, book sales, rare/out-of-print searches, New Paradigms Discussion List, Weekly Up-date Lists & E-text Archive of research, intelligence, catalogs, & resources. To Discuss Ideas: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://msen.com/~lloyd/ For Ordering Info & Free Catalog: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://a-albionic.com/formaddress.html For Discussion List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] text in body: subscribe prj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> **FREE RARE BOOK SEARCH: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ** Explore Our Archive: <http://a-albionic.com/a-albionic.html> Every Diet Has Failed! What Can I do? Click Below to "Ask Dr. Kathleen"! http://www.radiantdiet.com/cgi-bin/slim/deliver.cgi?ask-1364 *********************************** -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 5:32 AM Subject: [Reality_Pump] Re: Clinton Lays Out His Agenda, ImpressesEventheNaysayers Lloyd, I inadvertently deleted your last response to one of my posts, but had intended to answer you. Tonight, however, I'd like to know why you consider Roosevelt and Clinton facistst. Niether were demigogues. Both administrations have been the antithesis of fascism. Should you base your judgement upon manipulative oratory alone, surely you'll have to include Churchill, Kennedy, Reagan, Lincoln, - particularly the great communicator Reagan - in your list of fascists as well as Roosevelt and Clinton. Since facism is generally understood as ultraconserative and reactionary, similar to libertarian extremism, you might reconsider your definition of the term. Here's a good descripiton of contemporary facism from http://burn.ucsd.edu/~aff/afib.html >>Antifa Info-Bulletin is an E-zine for researchers and activists fighting to stop the far-right and their corporate benefactors dead in their tracks. Our purpose is not simply to document the crimes perpetrated by a burgeoning fascist movement across North America, but to analyse the re-emergence of the racist right within the wider context of global capitalism and imperialism as it exists today. Unlike those who portray reactionaries as "outsiders" beyond the pale of the "pluralist mainstream," our purpose is to document and expose the continuities existing among far-rightists, corporate and state elites: the ruling class and their armed fist, the military and police. Fascism and its twin, clerical reaction, neither emerge from a void nor are they unconnected to dominant trends within the wider capitalist superstructure. For North Americans, the predominant expression of an emergent fascist movement, is racism and white supremacy. But it isn't the fascists alone who are responsible for stoking the flames of race war or genocidal moves towards "ethnic cleansing" and a white monoculture of shopping malls, suburban enclaves, and police state surveillance. As the capitalist crisis deepens, dominant elites are extending the "Third World model" into the imperialist metropole itself. Attacks upon our standard of living, union busting, racist pogroms against immigrants, organized misogyny and homophobia, violent anti-Semitism and anti-Black racism are exploited by the ruling class as "wedge issues." The re-emergence of fascism within a score of European and North American countries can only be contextualized within the terminal crisis of bourgeois civilization itself. Failure to comprehend the contradictory nature of fascism - it's simultaneous character as an oppositional movement and violent prop for bourgeois society - inevitably leads to the failure by leftist forces to challenge and combat institutional racism, sexism, classism, homophobia, etc.<< ron ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Just Tell Us What You Want... Respond.com - Shopping the World for You! http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/390 Join the move to end modern-day slavery. 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