-Caveat Lector- -----Original Message----- From: David Goldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Newsgroups: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.conspiracy Date: Sunday, May 16, 1999 9:34 PM Subject: Full Washington Weekly Interview with LD Brown >I Was Bill Clinton's Bag Man > Interview with Author L.D. Brown > By MARVIN LEE > In his recently released book, "Crossfire: Witness in the Clinton Investigation," author L.D. > Brown finally makes a full admission of the crimes that he helped then-Governor Bill > Clinton commit in the 1980s. Brown admits that, while assigned to then-Governor Clinton's > security detail, he actually performed the role of Clinton's "bag man." > But Brown has also included a shocker of a current scandal that has yet to unfold in the > U.S. media: a current covert White House operation aimed at supporting the Irish > Republican Army in Northern Ireland. > I interviewed Brown about these topics as well as Brown's and Clinton's role in the > Nicaraguan Contra supply operation at Mena airport in 1980s and other topics revealed in > his book: > QUESTION: You reveal in the book that you were a "bag man" for Bill Clinton. > You actually use that term. > BROWN: Well, it's the best term to use. In a crime world, when writers write > about the man who carries the money around, it is usually the "bag man." > Frankly, that's what it was. We used a paper sack, a brown paper bag. > QUESTION: Did you just collect from local businessmen, some of whom you > name in the book, or did you also in any way get involved in collecting money > from Chinese businessmen? > BROWN: No. I knew Charlie Trie... > QUESTION: But not in a fundraising context? > BROWN: Not in a fundraising context. And, quite frankly, I don't know whether > Charlie was a contributor to Bill during his gubernatorial elections. > QUESTION: He was, through Richard Mays. > BROWN: One thing I do remember is that we didn't have to pay for the event at > Charlie Trie's restaurant. We had a pretty good bill there. > QUESTION: And there's another thing. You reveal in the book a relationship > between Hillary Clinton and Vince Foster. That must have been apparent to > Charlie Trie because it took place in his restaurant? > BROWN: Charlie wasn't downstairs. > QUESTION: So he may not have known about it? > BROWN: He didn't know about it that night. > QUESTION: So, in your role as bag man, you never picked up any packages of > money from Mena airport? > BROWN: No, none other than what [CIA contractor Barry] Seal gave me. > QUESTION: Yes, for yourself. You may know that Jerry Parks' widow says > that her husband drove cash from Mena airport on a contract for Vince Foster > [1]. > BROWN: As far as I remember, I have never met Jerry Parks at Mena airport. > When we came and left there, there was no activity in and around the airplane. > The Dixie Mafia > QUESTION: On another topic, when you expose all the crimes that took place > in Arkansas, you never mention the Dixie Mafia. Is the relationship of people like > Dan Lasater, Patsy Thomasson, and Buddy Young to the Dixie Mafia not a > significant factor in this, you think? > BROWN: Well, having been in law enforcement for quite a number of years, I > have a different connotation about the, quote, Dixie Mafia, unquote. It's not like > the Marcellos in New Orleans, the Cosa Nostras, the Capos, and all that. The > Dixie Mafia is much more loose knit--not identifiable as a gang in a hierarchy as > other organized crime gangs. I guess it is an unorganized crime organization. It's > more of a social structure. > I never really thought about that, trying to put all this in the context of an > organized crime operation, even though if you take the separate acts that have > been committed, it's certainly a racketeering operation. > QUESTION: You know Roger Morris, in his biography of Bill Clinton, was the > first to try to put the entire thing in a Mafia context, pointing out, actually, that > Bill Clinton's first campaign was funded, presumably, through the Mafia, through > his uncle Raymond. > BROWN: Well, I don't doubt that. And that is more "Mafia" Mafia, as you think > of Cosa Nostra, when you talk about the old Hot Springs crowd. > QUESTION: Speaking of Seal and [Carlos] Marcello, whom you brought up. > Did you know that Seal had worked for Marcello? > BROWN: It doesn't surprise me. > Covert Operation in Northern Ireland > QUESTION: Speaking of covert operations, you reveal in the book an effort by > the Clinton administration to divert money from food aid and airplane parts from > Russia to the Irish Republican Army in Northern Ireland. Have I understood that > correctly? > BROWN: It wasn't revealed to me in so many words, but I couldn't come to any > more reasonable conclusion than that from all the conversations I had with this > man that I met in England, T. John McBrearty. As I describe in the book he first > approached me at 2 a.m. at a bus station in England. > After a 2-hour drive to Heathrow airport--starting from "hey, waiting on a bus?" > to, when we finally arrived, him trying to arrange liaison between James Carville > and me and throwing in this Soderburg lady who worked for Clinton on the > NSC... > QUESTION: She was actually deputy staff director at the National Security > Council. > BROWN: She apparently had some official job to do with Northern Ireland and > the troubles. And this whole operation came down on providing commodities, > food to the Russian republics in return for air parts, which--through this > networking of the old "air thugs" and people like Southern Air Transport [a CIA > proprietary air business of the past] and Jack Stephens... > QUESTION: Who took the air parts? > BROWN: Who took the air parts, and this was news to me. And I have since > found out--I don't know if I write about this in the book--that he has an > operation that deals in spare airplane parts. > The entire thing comes back to an operation that he [McBrearty] was running, > close to the border in the north in Ireland, that provided jobs for people that > were disenfranchised for some reason--because they were sympathetic to the > Irish Republic, but they were northerners, or--any way, that's what it was. It was > a pro-IRA thing. > QUESTION: It was a cover for providing support for the IRA? > BROWN: Absolutely, sure. A cover. And if you need to provide a cover, you > need people who were experienced in "cover up," people who were experienced > in doing a "cut-out" operation. > QUESTION: Well, of course the U.S. government cannot support a terrorist > organization > BROWN: Not openly. > QUESTION: So they made another Iran-Contra diversion. > BROWN: That's my point. You are making my point. It is "Let's go around the > Boland Amendment" [prohibiting CIA support for the Contras] all over again! > Only this time it is Bill's instead of [George] Bush's pet project! It's the IRA. > Bill's open politics have shown that! > QUESTION: Yes, did you know that a member of the Clinton administration > was censured for fundraising for the IRA while working for the State > Department? > BROWN: No. > QUESTION: Her name was Rosemary O'Neill. So this is the first time that you > reveal this operation? > BROWN: Absolutely. I worry about this more than I do about Barry Seal's > connection with the Marcello family, I worry more about these people that > apparently are doing these same kinds of operations that I was involved in when > Bush was running that [Iran Contra] operation that Bill got me involved in. > A cut-out, a cover to implement a foreign policy that you cannot legally propose > or follow through! This is the first time I talk about that for that very reason. > Other people have tried to get me to talk about it. > I have, in graduated, measured steps, been following the policy that when the > time is right, sometimes the best security is to hide in plain sight. Make things > public. Some of these people will do anything to cover their tracks, to keep an > operation like that secret--but at least a lot of them, when they know that you are > on record with something, don't try to deal with you. > QUESTION: Another interesting, or novel, aspect of that operation is that > McBrearty asked you to work with James Carville to get the intelligence agencies > off their back. > BROWN: Absolutely. > QUESTION: But what, exactly, did you understand that to mean, "get the > intelligence agencies off" whose back? McBrearty and his covert operation in > Ireland? > BROWN: Right. > QUESTION: That's what you understood? > BROWN: Right. > QUESTION: So, by implication, we can conclude that intelligence agencies are > investigating this and are not supporting it? > BROWN: From what he told me, absolutely. > QUESTION: But that must mean that this operation does not have CIA > support? > BROWN: According to him, sure. I don't know if he thought or the Clinton > people thought that I had more of a favorable relationship with the Agency and > still do than I really do or did, and that somehow I could be a liaison. I didn't > have a relationship with the Agency, I don't have a relationship with the Agency. > I cannot conceive of how I could have helped them, as he said, "get the Agency > of their ass." > QUESTION: They obviously thought that you had a relationship. They didn't > know that it was completely terminated. > BROWN: Right. And the president appoints the director of Central Intelligence, > but it is obvious from news reports that they have had some differences in > foreign policy and intelligence matters. > That still puzzles me. I don't know how I was supposed to be helping them. > Mena airport - what did the CIA know and when did it > know it? > QUESTION: Now, let's move on to Mena. You mention in your book that [CIA > contact] Magruder was interested in your past DEA work. Do you think that the > CIA sent you along on those flights [with Barry Seal to Central America] to > check up on rumors of drug smuggling? Could that have been a purpose? > BROWN: It could have been. Magruder knew everything about my DEA work. > I had the impression that I was being considered for an Operations Officer job > [with the CIA]. But he asked me, during our conversation in Dallas, whether, as > a stepping stone to that I would be willing to work on another "component," as > he called it: Para-military, anti-terrorism, security and anti-drug-smuggling. And I > said yes. That's where we ended our entire interview. > QUESTION: But do you think that it is possible that that was the reason the > CIA sent you along on those flights, to check up on rumors of drug smuggling? > BROWN: It's very possible. It makes sense. But my conclusions about this, just > trying to use basic deductive reasoning and knowing Bill Clinton and everything > that he was doing shepherding me through the whole [CIA] process, that may > have been the Agency's idea. But I think Bill, knowing obviously that this [the > drug smuggling] was going on, was probably more planning this as a self-serving > deniability device for him: "Gee, whiz, I put my most staunch advocate of > anti-drug-smuggling that we have on that plane. Do you think that if I had known > there would have been drugs there I would have put him there?" > QUESTION: But in the end, because it involved drug smuggling during those > return CIA flights, you said that you wanted no part of the operation. > BROWN: Well, I didn't want any part of it because the person who had guided > me through this entire process, Bill Clinton, when I broached the subject with > him, he said the worst thing that he could ever say, that it was "A Dan Lasater > deal." > Then things clicked in my mind: "Oh, my God, the only time I've seen him > around coke that I know of, for sure, has been in Dan Lasater's house." Dan > Lasater openly displayed coke in his home. I thought about this later. Is Dan > Lasater working on a contract with CIA? Was he? > It was a drug deal and I wanted no part of it. > QUESTION: But then the CIA came back to you some time later with another > assignment. That was the assignment in Mexico. Then we get into the sensitive > topic of CIA assassinations. They wanted you to eliminate a U.S. citizen in > Mexico, and the question is for what purpose. It had something to do with his > knowledge of drug smuggling in that [Mena] operation? > BROWN: They coached it with me as an effort to get rid of the co-pilot on > those flights with Seal. Seal was dead by then. > I didn't want anything to get out about me being on an airplane with drugs. I > knew Bill surely didn't ever want it to get out. Dan Lasater didn't. And, you > know, at the time Dan had people hanging around him that would hurt you! I > wanted it closed. I wanted the book closed on this. > But when I got to the assigned location in Mexico and the guy was pointed out > to me by my local contact, I knew that it wasn't the co-pilot I had seen on the > airplane. They had the wrong guy. I don't think Rodriguez [Brown's CIA contact > on the assignment] knew he was sending me to get the wrong guy, but that's > basically what happened. > And of course, I was obviously not forgetting that there was one other person > on that plane [who knew] who is not dead yet. It's me. What better way to be > done with me and that other guy than for me go down there, nail him, get > arrested two minutes later and die in a Mexican prison? I immediately became > paranoid. I ditched the gun and went back to Arkansas without carrying out the > assignment. > I found out much later, after Terry Reed wrote a book (curiously someone sent > me a copy), when I looked through the book there was a receipt for him being at > this hotel [in Mexico] at the same time I was there, and there was a picture of > him in the book, I realized that he was the guy I had seen there at the hotel. > Reed later filed a lawsuit and subpoenaed me but I had it postponed until after at > least May or June of 1996 so the 10-year statute of limitations had run in the > State of Arkansas so I couldn't get prosecuted for conspiracy. > QUESTION: Conspiracy to commit murder? > BROWN: Conspiracy to commit murder, absolutely. > QUESTION: You mentioned your concern about exposure to criminal liability. > And you admit in the book that you have been complicit in other violations > committed by Bill Clinton. Is that the reason why you have not spoken out until > now? > BROWN: Oh, sure. I didn't have the benefit at the time of knowing what has > now come together as a criminal enterprise more or less. We are talking about > racketeering, that's what was going on. I was there, I saw these things, but I > didn't completely know all the transactions that took place outside my view. > Yes, I was a cog in that wheel but I didn't understand the big picture at the time. > I knew that I shouldn't be carrying around cash in a bag, but I didn't know > exactly where that cash came from, whether it was from a drug deal or > unreceipted or unaccounted for money from Madison [S&L]. > I knew it was wrong. There is no excusing that. I have apologized and repented > for it publicly. I was an enabler, not unlike the people that he is surrounding > himself with now. Whether it be 100 congressmen standing beside him when he > is gloating, almost, that he has been impeached, or it is his minions that go out > and try to destroy people who are telling the truth. > I was one of those people. > Notes > 1. Jerry Parks was a Clinton campaign security contractor whose liaison was Vince Foster. > Se Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's book, The Secret Life of Bill Clinton. > [L.D. Brown's book "Crossfire: Witness in the Clinton Investigation" is available at the > discounted price of $11.95 plus S&H at http://crossfirebook.com (not available in > bookstores).] DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. 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