Re: [CTRL] REAL REASON FOR GUN OWNERSHIP
-Caveat Lector- It is one thing to bomb and nuke a destroy a country. To control it you need ground troops, easy pickings for marksman (not the spray and pray crowd, that is now the military). One shot one kill is very demoralizing for an occupier to have to contend with. There's 70 million or more gun owners in this country, no occupying force in their right mind would move in here without having the masses disarmed. Just like what is currently happening in the Balkans. = Theodor S.Parada, MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key ID 0x537C4815 "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the heart's of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic, so that, it, can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague." Marcus Tullius Cicero 42 BC DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] REAL REASON FOR GUN OWNERSHIP
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: nessie [EMAIL PROTECTED] When states have overwhelming military forces, not to mention NBC [nuclear, biological, chemical] arsenals, 'guns' are absurd tools to attempt to oppose the power of such a state. Tell it to the Vietnamese. Tell it to the Laotians. Tell it to the Afganis. The North VietNamese army had tanks and artillery - the US was NOT defeated by militias with shotguns and AKs, but by a professional army - and by a lack of REASON and WILL in the US to 'prevail'. Contrast the US-VietNam experience with the successful British counter-insurgency campaign in the Malay territory during the 50s. Afghans fighting Russians were supplied with mines, rocket launchers, a vast arsenal of military weaponry, rather more powerful than hand- guns and hunting rifles - and the current environment there is not exactly what most people would consider adequate. Pumping a lot of weaponry into a region does NOT stabilize a situation. Uh, just who did the Laotians defeat with their personal firearms? My point is, if the political masters of a modern military want to commit their resources to stomp you, then personal firearms are irrelevant. To prevail against land/air/naval forces, you need comparable forces, or weapons of mass destruction and lotsa luck. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] REAL REASON FOR GUN OWNERSHIP
-Caveat Lector- The North VietNamese army had tanks and artillery - the US was NOT defeated by militias with shotguns and AKs, but by a professional army - and by a lack of REASON and WILL in the US to 'prevail'. (1.) The Vietnamese started out against the Japanese with nothing but small arms. Everything else they captured or bought. The key element in the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu was the Viet Minh's Hmoung irregular auxiliaries, many were armed with flintlocks and crossbows. My SO owns one of those crossbows. You DON'T want her to shoot you with it. The Hmoung were mad at the French State Monopoly Opium Purchasing Board, particularly its only Hmoung member, Touby Lo Fang, for swindling them. They offered their superb hillbilly combat and navigation skills and Vietnamese who couldn't have won without them. They killed outlying French patrols who would have tipped the main force off what they were up to and led the Viet Minh up rugged mountain goat trails packing mountain guns. They were the only artillery that the Viet Minh used in the battle. While the mountain guns kept the French pinned down Viet Minh foot soldiers with small arms systematically overran the colorfully named fire bases one by one until even a fighting withdrawal was out of the question for the French. The delineation between the North Vietnamese army and the Viet Cong is a false dichotomy and imperialist propaganda. They were one force, with one goal. All their activities, and their command structure, were thoroughly integrated. The Viet Cong were a citizen militia in the sense that they also held day jobs. They used small arms and improvised munitions for the bulk of the war. They were supplied from the north, but they also were supplied from the south. Southerners provided logistical support and fighters to their own liberation struggle. The northerners helped because to the Vietnamese there is no difference between north and south; they are one people. The DMZ was imposed, not by Vietnamese, but by foreigners. Even at that, it was (on paper at least) never intended to be a national border. It was a line marking in which direction certain troop were to withdraw during the period leading up to the elections. South Viet Nam was never a country. It was a fiction that the US and it puppets attempted to fob off on the Vietnamese people who threw their butts out in response. The key event in the struggle against the Americans, the one that broke America's will, was the Tet Offensive. It was overwhelming fought with small arms. By the time the war had turned into a Clauswitzian set piece affair, the Americans were long gone, driven out primarily by citizen soldiers with AK-47s. "The Spirit of the People is stronger than the Man's technology." --Huey P. Newton Not to be ignored is the significant role played by what Giap called the "Second Front," Americans fighting their own government here at home. We were armed primarily with rocks, bottles and gasoline. Fortunately we had the numbers. Gradually the anti-war movement took to explosives, both stolen and improvised. According to a suppressed government study, stolen and published in Ramparts magazine there were over three thousand bombing in America in 1971. That's ten a day. It was a major factor in the US government's decision to disengage. None of those bombs were standard issue ordinance. Another key factor in the decision to withdraw was US troop rebellions and especially fragging. Over seven hundred officers were killed by their own men, all with bullets and grenades. (2.) In any armed struggle between the people of America and the government, the government can in no way be assured of the loyalty of the armed forces. They are our children, our parents, our sibling and our neighbors. They won't gun us down in cold blood. Some would; others would kill them for it, desert, and bring their weapons with them. Read up on the Twenty Nine Palms study. Contrast the US-VietNam experience with the successful British counter-insurgency campaign in the Malay territory during the 50s. British success in the Malay campaign was not so much due to British resolve as it was to their (traditionally) skillful manipulation of the racial tension between the Malays and the Chinese. Contrast the British experience in Malasia with their dismal (and supremely just) failure in Ireland. It is significant to note that the Black and Tan War set the tone for every subsequent national liberation struggle for the rest of the century. The IRA pioneered nearly all of the tactics and techniques that the Vietnamese and others have used since to shake off the yoke of colonialism by force of arms, the, the homemade bomb, the flying columns, the bicycles, the whole works, except perhaps for the deep penetration of English intelligence and counter intelligence services, which saw genesis in the Maroon Wars in Jamaica. Afghans fighting Russians were supplied with mines, rocket launchers, a vast arsenal
[CTRL] REAL REASON FOR GUN OWNERSHIP
-Caveat Lector- ** THE REAL REASON FOR GUN OWNERSHIP ** BY THE COMPANY OF FREEMEN The State Creates Its Own Enemies Ghoulishly capitalizing on the tragedy of a mass murder, the anti-gun forces are surging forward with their plans for total gun confiscation. If law-abiding private citizens were disarmed, they claim, criminals and crazies would be unable to kill and maim. That's an obvious lie -- criminals, by definition, disobey laws, and madmen can kill with knives, cars or champagne bottles as easily and as senselessly as they can with guns. The not-so- secret agenda of the State and its apologists is clear: disarm peaceful citizens to render them powerless. Turn law-abiding Americans into criminals with the stroke of a legislative pen. Anyone who refuses to surrender his or her weapons would become an Enemy Of The State, much the same as any armed citizen is right now in the Soviet Union, or Communist China, or Socialist Nicaragua, or Fascist El Salvador, or Monarchist Great Britain. Gun confiscation is non-partisan -- it is always and forever aimed at anyone disliked by the current gang in power. Gun Seizure Sparked 1776 Revolution The American Revolution began in a dispute over gun control when British Redcoats marched toward Lexington and Concord to disarm farmers there. London claimed to be the "legitimate" government ruling America, just as Washington or Sacramento or Albany claims to be today. And their attempt to disarm us stems from the same power lust that drove King George. We must, therefore, hold on to our guns -- legally or illegally -- for the very same reason the colonists did. The Truth About Gun Ownership The anti-gunners, certain that the role of government is to grant privileges and dictate behavior, shout that citizens have no reason to be "allowed" to own assault rifles, which have "no legitimate sporting use". The Constitution, though, says nothing about "a well-regulated hunting club" being necessary. We do not own handguns, assault rifles, shotguns, and other powerful weapons because we are hunters or plinkers or collectors. We do not even own guns because the Constitution "allows" us to. The Constitution does not "grant" rights. It recognizes rights already and irrevocably held forever by the people themselves (individuals), and forbids government from trampling on them. We have a right to keep and bear arms regardless of whether the Second Amendment exists or not! All Article Two guarantees is that we shouldn't have to defend that right against "our" federal government. We've seen that simple guarantee erode, though, haven't we? The real reason for gun ownership is to protect the individual from the State, whether it is an invading State from across the seas or a domestic State grown tyrannical and oppressive. The goal of total, repressive confiscation is clear in the subtle, shifting arguments of the anti-gun forces. When handguns were the target, they clamored for prohibition because handguns were not militia-type weapons protected by the Second Amendment. Now they cry for assault rifle bans because "mere citizens" have no business possessing "military-style" weapons! These eager confiscators rightly point out that assault rifles, handguns, and indeed all "weapons" have only one purpose: to kill. Again they speak a truth, but only partially. The unasked question is, "To kill whom? And under what circumstances?" The answer is, "To kill any who attempt to rob, maim, rape, or kill us." Even that answer, though, does not fully express the most important reason for gun ownership. Only a small number of people are actually touched by criminal violence. The State, though, touches each and every one of us every hour of every day. People in government seek to tax our earnings to pay for their whims, to draft our children to fight in wars they start, to regulate and interfere with our lives out of pure love of power and their desire to wield it. They have become as tyrannical as any Tory redcoat, Soviet Commissar, or Nazi Gestapo. And they are coming to steal your last line of defense against them. Will you meekly obey? Gun Laws Enforced at Gunpoint When any law against guns is passed, how is it backed up? How will the State remove banned weapons from private hands? How will agents of the State disarm the citizenry? Why, by the use of guns, of course! This contradiction has never bothered statists. Why are handguns and assault rifles evil and wicked in the hands of private citizens yet perfectly fine in the hands of employees of the State? If this is truly "government by the people" why do we see the servants disarming their masters by force? What do they fear from us, if theirs is a legitimate, benevolent government? If the State does not seek to control us, why does it want us disarmed? The usual answer -- stripped of equivocation
Re: [CTRL] REAL REASON FOR GUN OWNERSHIP
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: Lloyd Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] The real reason for gun ownership is to protect the individual from the State, whether it is an invading State from across the seas or... When states have overwhelming military forces, not to mention NBC [nuclear, biological, chemical] arsenals, 'guns' are absurd tools to attempt to oppose the power of such a state. Tactical nukes anthrax are NOT countered by gangs of citizens with shotguns AR-15s. Personal firearms are useful in assault and terror, nothing else. If you want to see what happens when organized groups of insurgents holding firearms confront the power of a modern state, refer to events in Uruguay, France and Egypt over the last few decades. Hint: the patriots/revolutionaries are slaughtered. The "REAL REASON FOR GUN OWNERSHIP" is to enrich the makers and sellers of personal firearms. It's no coincidence that many 2nd Amendment proponents are also involved in pushing gold coins as a hedge against instability. Gold has dropped 500% in value in recent decades; the only people profiting in gold, are the dealers who find suckers they can scare into buying it. Same thing with guns - sharpies sell, suckers buy. Yow. * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.sonic.net/~ric * ICQ# 19633976 * * *** SkeptiChat: sliding down the razor-blade of life *** now featuring SkeptiNews: All The News That's Fit To Question email INFO or SUBSCRIBE SKEPTICHAT to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
